Could Spellcasting be a Class Feat

[Shade325]

Was looking over the multiclass options recently put out and while I like the idea of Multiclassing its so class feat costly. It got me wondering could spellcasting be a class feat.

Every class uses the same spell chart for gaining spells. What if instead of getting a new level of spells at 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc... they got a class feat and had to option to pick the ability to cast the next level spells of pick something else instead.

Example (Wizard class feat level 3): Arcane Casting 2
Prerequisite: Ability to cast level 1 Arcane spells.
Text: You can now cast level 2 arcane spells based on level per the spell casting chart.

Something along this line allows a Wizard that wants to be a bit more gish to delve a little deeper into the fighter class at the cost of higher level spells.

Now this would be a lot more class feats in the hands of casters. Might need to look at non-casters in comparison.

Anyways rough idea I wanted to share.

[StratoNexus]

I obviously think it could be.

That said it does add significant complexity to leveling up by vastly increasing choice. Also, all other cases would need to be re-worked so they also got Class feats basically every level, rather than just baked in abilities.

I think it is worth exploring the idea, but it might be better as an option in a book after Core.

[David knott 242]

I suspect that many people would complain about the "feat tax" of having to take a feat each time they wanted to increase their maximum spell level.

However, I don't see a problem with having class feats that increase spellcasting proficiency so that spellcasters can get a class feat at every even level. In that case, the player is being given a real choice.

[Dasrak]

If spellcasting advancement becomes a class feat, then all class features after 1st level for all classes should also be class feats. And if you do that, then your class is really just your 1st level package and all subsequent advancement is class-less. I don't think that's the direction that Paizo or most of the fan-base wants to go.

[Floppy Toast]

Obligatory SoP plug:
Spellcasting is already a feat system in Spheres of Power.
What we should really be doing is just dispensing with Vancian Magic, and using something that fits with the rest of the world.

[Dairian]

I am working on basically this.

Take the multi-class archetype feats, tweak them a bit, add a few more, and presto, classless system.

Add an additional proficiency level so that you have 5 (6 if you count untrained) and 5 feats to expand abilities (like spell access)

In that system, the wizard casting class progression is replaced with 10 feats:

Wizard Dedication:
Novice - cantrips and L1 spells
Breadth 1 - more spells (1)
Journeyman - L2/L3
Breadth 2 _ more spells (1,2,3)
Expert - L4/L5
Breadth 3 _ more spells (2,3,4,5)
Master - L6/L7
Breadth 4 _ more spells (4,5,6,7)
Legendary - L8/L9
Breadth 5 _ more spells (6,7,8,9)

[Bardarok]

You could make a completely modular classless system and I think that would be a great variant rule for experience groups but it is too much for most new players and really shouldn't be the default option.

[Dairian]

Bardarok wrote:

You could make a completely modular classless system and I think that would be a great variant rule for experience groups but it is too much for most new players and really shouldn't be the default option.

I would still present the standard classes, built using a classless system behind the scenes, for new players.

Back of the book gives the whole deal.

Also streamlines things like feats instead of needing to reprint everything.

I would also merge turn undead with the monks stunning fist/ki powers, and add additional feats to designate energy type (force, pos/neg, fire, etc.)

[WatersLethe]

They could go this way or they could go opposite and really drill down into what the core chassis of each class offers, and make sure they're decently balanced across all classes. That way casters can get the same number of class feats without having to cash them in implicitly (as 2e is currently formulated) or explicitly (as this thread suggests) for spells.

In essence, rather than carving more out of base class features and putting them into feats, I think Casters need better and more feat options, and Martials need better and more baseline features.

If they want spell selection to act as a character customization knob, I think it should be more analogous to martial characters selecting and upgrading weapons, rather than them selecting feats.

Since you can't just give Casters more feats without upsetting balance, I think martial baseline class features should be tuned up, increased in number where appropriate, and get more meaningful boosts over 20 levels. These baseline features should compete with spellcasting on a roughly even footing. This will require a hard look at what handful of abilities are truly integral to a martial class, however.

In any case, if Spell Levels are turned into class feats casters will need a boost in thematic baseline abilities to make them adequately stand apart from one another, which is viable.

[Bardarok]

It's a fine idea for a Game masters guide or similar. Just not the CRB.