RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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While I'm happy to see the long maligned d12 getting lots of love in PF2, what happened to percentile dice? They aren't mentioned anywhere in the rules, nor in the sidebar on dice on p. 11. The flat check is clunky, I'd much rather see the percentile dice used for these, and have the full range of classic polyhedral dice have their place in PF2.
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. The flat check is clunky, I'd much rather see the percentile dice used for these,
Any particular reason?
Personally I'm in favor of the change since it means 2 less specific type of dice people have to carry around that was only used for that roll (or having to get more d10s than they preferred). Everybody has a d20.
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I very much prefer the flat check to percentile dice any day. I have no idea why it should be "clunky".
It's been a long time since I've seen a percentile table (other than a rod of wonder or whatever) with units lower than a multiple of 5. The flat check works just fine. It's pure luck, so it doesn't bug me like the swinginess of a d20 on checks washing out the effect of ability and skill, where I would still prefer 2d10.
It's been a long time since I've seen a percentile table (other than a rod of wonder or whatever) with units lower than a multiple of 5. The flat check works just fine. It's pure luck, so it doesn't bug me like the swinginess of a d20 on checks washing out the effect of ability and skill, where I would still prefer 2d10.
Yeah. Percentile tables when players were involved in PF1 all tended to work around multiples of 5%. This defeated the purpose of the percentile at all. Unless you're going to use full percentile. A system that used this was Palladium where skills used percentile. You could have like, 52% in a skill, which made the percentile the choice.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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When I referenced flat checks as being "clunky" that was not as clear as it could have been. In more detail, what I mean is that most people have a pretty good understanding of what percents are and what a percent chance of something happening means. Changing this to a flat check on a d20 leads to some confusion - I've seen it on the boards multiple times already, example:
"oh, you have a flat check DC 15 to remove persistent damage"
"yeah, that's 25%"
"no that's actually 30%"
It's just not as intuitive, and requires some mental translation/math to actually know the odds. With a standard d20 check, it's not as big a deal, since you're adding numbers to it, and comparing against a DC of some sort, so there's already more complexity, but with a fixed chance (flat check/percent chance, what have you), not using the commonly and instinctually understood percentile check makes it just a bit harder to process.
I figure percentile dice are still going to be around for tables which have more than 20 entries or unequal chances of certain outcomes. Like when Primal Magic Events get PF2 rules, we'll be rolling d% again I wager.
I used to roll flat checks before P2 was a thing. Converting from 1-100 to 1-20 is really easy and practical.
And I own an actual d100, so, I mean, if even I use it, there must be some good about it.
I like percentile dice too, but I will admit to rolling a d4 or d10 when the multiples were 10 or 25%.
I like using my d100, but it's certainly not practical.
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% dice are good for generating random magic items, and for random encounters if you want the sort of campaign where you have a 1% chance of meeting a dragon you can't possibly defeat in battle.
It's not like percentile dice are banned. Home GMs who have a use for them can still use them, they're just not used (so far) by the normal rules.
I feel like percentile dice will be back as soon as we print something with random encounters in it. Doomsday Dawn doesn't have it because Doomsday Dawn is very carefully controlled but the first PF2 AP assuredly will have random encounter tables.
It's fine if the only person asked to roll d% is the GM, I figure.
The other alternative is to flip flat checks - so if you have a 25% chance, you need to roll a 5 or less. The mental math is much easier that way since many people will instinctively think 15 or higher is 25% instead of 16 or higher.
This is true. Humans don't process math like they should. It's why prices are always like, 1.99$, cause you register it by the first number as less than 2.00$.
That said, I honestly think it might be better as flat check 15 over 16, or 10 over 11. It makes it technically a 30% and it's neither in the players favor, nor against it (since most of the flat checks are things both players and NPCs alike will use) but it's just that 1.99$ vs 2.00$ more aesthetically pleasing.
The other alternative is to flip flat checks - so if you have a 25% chance, you need to roll a 5 or less. The mental math is much easier that way since many people will instinctively think 15 or higher is 25% instead of 16 or higher.
But people also instinctively think "Rolling high numbers = good". Roll two dice, and a double six feels lucky. Rolling "snake eyes" feels unlucky. That's probably one of the reasons the d20 system is popular even if it makes it harder to calculate the odds.
The other alternative is to flip flat checks - so if you have a 25% chance, you need to roll a 5 or less. The mental math is much easier that way since many people will instinctively think 15 or higher is 25% instead of 16 or higher.But people also instinctively think "Rolling high numbers = good".
This is even explicitly stated under Die Rolls on page 8. IMHO it would be annoying to have to change that entry to "Rolling high numbers is usually good, rolling 20 is usually better, rolling 1 is usually bad."