How many PCs should we playtest with?


Doomsday Dawn Game Master Feedback


Is there a required number of PCs to playtest with? If not, if we are playing with fewer or more than 4 PCs, should we adjust the adventure to make it easier or harder for the number of PCs outside of the 4 PC threshold. This came into question when I was trying to run the 2nd adventure for my 2 kids.

Is this something the Devs want to see? How 2 PCs do against an entire adventure? Or do they want to see how the scenario adjusts? How can this be reflected in the surveys released after each adventure?

Grand Lodge

Yes. Though 2 PCs will be hard, especially for kids since you'll lack a diversity of ways to solve problems (e.g. skills, tactical options, etc.).

If you're concerned that your kids will have difficulty with certain sections because they lack the necessary resources of a 4 person party, you can always add an NPC or two to the party and adjust the encounters accordingly.

The Bestiary includes a full set of rules for adjusting encounters (up and down) for party size, and how to adjust individual monsters (up and down) to achieve the appropriate difficulty level.

I have a party of 6, so for each encounter I make the adjustments when I prep for the session, noting how much I need to scale up the encounter and then I physically write those adjustments in the Doomsday Dawn book at the encounter so I don't forget.


It's not that I can adjust the game, I'm wondering if the Devs WANT me to adjust the game. I have just not seen any information as to how they want me to test with more or less than recommended party number. With my kids or with 20 year experienced gamers, I think that I just want an answer in general.

Grand Lodge

The only mention that I've found is in the introduction to Doomsday Dawn, under "Adjusting Encounters":

Quote:
Pathfinder assumes that the typical group consists of a Game Master and four players, but often a Game Master will find that the number of players interested in her game doesn't always align with this expectation.

Since it's not mentioned, I assume that you're free to have as many or as few as you want. The survey itself leaves "Number of PCs" as an open text field rather than a drop down, so I assume Paizo is giving GMs flexibility here.


Hurká wrote:

The only mention that I've found is in the introduction to Doomsday Dawn, under "Adjusting Encounters":

Quote:
Pathfinder assumes that the typical group consists of a Game Master and four players, but often a Game Master will find that the number of players interested in her game doesn't always align with this expectation.
Since it's not mentioned, I assume that you're free to have as many or as few as you want. The survey itself leaves "Number of PCs" as an open text field rather than a drop down, so I assume Paizo is giving GMs flexibility here.

Cool. Thanks for the knowledge drop. I'm going to see if I can drop the question on the twitch stream tonight to see if I get a definitive answer or at least something that falls in line with your thoughts.

Dataphiles

Pathfinder Adventure, Maps, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber

There are also rules for adjusting encounters in the Bestiary. We have used them mainly to adjust for additional players. Page 21 has the rules for "Different Party Sizes"


I've been running for a party of 5 myself. It's not too hard. These are the adjustments I made for the extra person and an actually well balanced party:

* Half an elite template (+1 everything, +5 hp) for the ooze.
* Added a goblin dog to the first goblin encounter, and had one of the goblins spend a few actions to mount and start riding it into melee while the others focus on range.
* Goblins flee into the fungus room once "knight goblin" is down.
* Change one of the centipedes into a larger full elite (+2 everything, +10 hp) as a "queen" to have something less squishy and more interesting. This maybe should be another half elite though for a less competent group.
* Change the 6 skeletons to 4 skeletons and 3 zombie shamblers for variety and to give the players a chance to see weakness in action before the quasit fight.
* Add homunculus to the quasit fight. For flavor I gave it the water type and replaced its fly speed with a swim speed, tying the poisonous little bugger to the polluted fountain, basically making it a weaker water mephit.
* Added a reskinned kobold scout to the second goblin room as the leader / person who built their deadfall trap.
* Kept Er-rat-ta the giant rat in Drakus's room due to the extra PC.

Since I had previously run the PCs through stuff from Rose Street Revenge as a "session zero" game to get used to their characters and the rules before the actual first Doomsday adventure, I also connected them. The bloody barbers were kidnapping people and trading them to Drakus for drugs to sell (so Drakus actually has a food supply), the trade back and forth was handled by the Sharks as middlemen, and the drugs were spores scraped off the fungus in Lost Star, so I put a workbench with paraphernalia in that room.


Logan Bonner was on the stream on Friday and he said that the Devs do want you to adjust the adventure to accommodate for the number of PCs.


Whatever you do, DON'T try to run 7 players! I did that with chapter 2. With the seven-player adjustment, the first two encounters each took over an hour. I adjusted back to the standard (4-player) monsters, and it still took another 6 1/2 hours to finish.

Lesson learned!


Ditto on seven. I played session one of chapter two with 7 then split them into two groups for session two.

It wasn't any worse than pf1 with 7,but 7 is just too many.

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