Advancement Beyond 20th level

General Discussion

I realize this is the playtest, but there is one thing I have concerns with.

Many people say that no one ever reaches high level play. I have personally run games from first levels into the thirties - and not only for D&D/PF. I would like to know if there is life after 20th level planned for this iteration of the game or not, because the 'bounded accuracy' and 'set level caps' of the games that have them are very troubling to me. You can go this far, this high, and no further.

And that's offensive to me as a gamemaster.

I liked that there were rules for going beyond 20th level in PF that were not necessarily epic, and that the additional alternate rulesets could accommodate them (Mythic, words of Power to go beyond 9th level spells, and Style feats or Stamina system to give martials further ways to deal with issues they might not ordinarily have). And admittedly, you do have to scale up other feats to keep certain feats and abilities relevant, but they were minimal at best.

Casters feared the fighter in my games, because he could very easily one-shot them through most of their defenses without any trouble at all, and that did not require major homebrewing. But in a level capped 20 level or 30 level game, there would be an end to it; you could keep adventuring, but the challenges would remain the same after that point because increasing the abilities beyond that point broke integral systems. (I am sure people have heard that "+1 to hit is king in 4e", and it's not wrong.)

So my hope and question is - will there be places for those of us who want to move into 21st level and beyond?

I feel like it would be easier to do since the numbers won't get as crazy but it might be to soon to tell.

I'd love to see an epic/mythic system. One of the devs (either James or Jason, can't recall) had said it's not out of the question. But since the core rules are still in test, they want to see if the masses want those types of rules for epic or mythic play, before they try to jump the gun and start on them at this early stage.
If one doesn't come out, I'll probably try the old +1/2 per level after 20th thing like the 3.0 epic book. Add a mythic proficiency option. Make some monsters to fight that have crazy abilities. And see what works.

Since everything is +level based, most of it could just keep going. The only catch would be figuring out what to do with spell advancement, and designing lv20+ feats.

I kind of liked how mythic worked even if it was klunky the concept wasn't bad but I feel like the new design really lets epic work well So I'm torn.

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Personally, I loved the Mythic Handbook and hope that Paizo uses the same model. It was far more evocative/dynamic than Third Edition's Epic Level Handbook. It's not exactly level 20+ but could be flavored as simple progression if desired.

Can we get both?

it seems to that the game has been redesigned from the ground up to work better past level 20, which is my favorite thing about 2nd edition., better high level play.

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