Does goblin "burn it" apply to splash damage


Ancestries & Backgrounds

Silver Crusade

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Another question that came up in todays game.

The goblins "burn it" feat says that
"Your spells and alchemical items that deal fire damage gain a conditional bonus to damage equal to half the spell’s level or the item’s level (minimum 1). You also gain a +1 conditional bonus to any persistent fire damage you deal, whether it’s from a spell or not."

Does this apply to splash damage?

Other powers (like Empower Bombs and calculated Splash) explicitly talk about splash damage. That implies to me that the lack of any such text in "Burn it" means that it DOES apply. But its a pretty weak implication and I think this should be clarified


I think RAI, it shouldn't. Based on the wording of the Feat and on Splash damage, there is nothing that says it wouldn't apply, though that seems more like an "Air Bud" situation rather than an intended interaction.

For 19th level Alchemist throwing an infused Alchemist's Fire with an Intelligence of +5 and both Calculated and Expanded Splash Feats is already doing 6d8 fire damage, 6 persistent damage, and 7 splash damage. With the Burn It feat, the damage increases to 6d8+9 fire damage and 7 persistent damage which is a nice damage increase. If the feat were to interact with splash as well though, the splash would increase to 16 splash damage! If you multiclass Rogue for Quick Draw, you can deal up to 48 splash damage in a single round!

I'm thinking Burn It either has a typo, or Paizo didn't realize the effect this could have for splash weapons. Regardless, I agree it should be clarified.


I would point out that empower states
"This also increases any persistent damage
dealt by the bomb, but not its splash damage."

meaning it increases persistent damage in general-it doesn't say base effects. AKA. the +1 conditional bonus is also increased.. So that lv 19 alchemist's do 6times. (and if you had another way to increase base dice on the bomb that would increase in such a way as well)

aka. its persistent damage is 12, not 6.
6d8+12Persistent+9 conditional bonus to damage +Splash
= whatever item bonuses actually do. I'm not sure yet.

Probably not quite what they meant. but it is how it currently works.
Or at least how I read it. which who knows if I'm reading it true.


I'd like to add to it that I feel this needs clarification. I played Part 1 of the module last night, and the GM ruled that it didn't add to the Splash damage. I asked the Reddit Discord feedback group to add it to the list of rules needing clarification, and they refused stating that "the rule is not unclear in the least. If it's an alchemical item or spell that does fire damage, you add to it. There's nothing in there explicitly prohibiting it adding to splash damage, nor is there a rule in splash damage making it exempt from added bonus damage like this feat."
Regardless of how "not unclear" people think the feat is, it needs clarification because we're seeing inconsistent rulings.


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Zwordsman wrote:

I would point out that empower states

"This also increases any persistent damage
dealt by the bomb, but not its splash damage."

meaning it increases persistent damage in general-it doesn't say base effects. AKA. the +1 conditional bonus is also increased.. So that lv 19 alchemist's do 6times. (and if you had another way to increase base dice on the bomb that would increase in such a way as well)

aka. its persistent damage is 12, not 6.
6d8+12Persistent+9 conditional bonus to damage +Splash
= whatever item bonuses actually do. I'm not sure yet.

Probably not quite what they meant. but it is how it currently works.
Or at least how I read it. which who knows if I'm reading it true.

That is an incorrect reading, you only partially quoted the relevant text of empower bombs.

Quote:
At 3rd level, you can create 3rd-level bombs that deal double the bomb’s base damage as presented in its entry.

This means that only the base damage and not any conditionals from other effects (ex: burn it) are multiplied by empower bombs.

So a level 19 alchemist fire would deal 6 + 9 (level 19 /2) = 15 persistent damage, not 60 persistent damage.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Agree that it should explicitly call out splash damage.

In addition, if the feat gives you a bonus on burning things, why only with spells and alchemical items? Why not with powers, flaming swords, or even a humble torch?


JoelF847 wrote:

Agree that it should explicitly call out splash damage.

In addition, if the feat gives you a bonus on burning things, why only with spells and alchemical items? Why not with powers, flaming swords, or even a humble torch?

a greater flaming rune is a level 14 item.

so that would be +7 damage

getting the 1d6 to 1d6+7 is pretty big, basically 3ple the rune damage with 1 ancestry feat seems a bit too much imo.

Powers ARE spells, so burn it does apply to powers.

i agree on the torch though.

it could have been "base weapons, spells and alchemical powers" to include future base flaming weapons as well, since we had those in pf1.

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