Why Are These Things Not Just Called Race?

[Patrick Newcarry]

The only viable reason I can see is that the new system allows you to trace your bloodline with a mechanical effect (as if you couldn't just account that into your stats as you build your character), but otherwise I'm at a loss as for the reasoning of this.

It's been called Race for the past 40+ years. Why is this an issue now?

[Gorbacz]

Patrick Newcarry wrote:

The only viable reason I can see is that the new system allows you to trace your bloodline with a mechanical effect (as if you couldn't just account that into your stats as you build your character), but otherwise I'm at a loss as for the reasoning of this.

It's been called Race for the past 40+ years. Why is this an issue now?

Here we go again.

[Draco18s]

*Points to the search bar*

[ScegfOd]

For the same reason that "retarded" is rude instead of just being a fancy sounding word for "slow".

[Angel Hunter D]

Because it's *current year* mostly, and it allows subcultures in the races to be easier to pop in - though heritage feats suck so much it doesn't really matter

[Chief Cook and Bottlewasher]

Ancestries seems more appropriate for changelings, dhampir, genie-blooded, duergar, ...

[Crayon]

Ancestry is a far more flexible and accurate term.

[Sydney S.]

Chief Cook and Bottlewasher wrote:

Ancestries seems more appropriate for changelings, dhampir, genie-blooded, duergar, ...

Maybe if they don't do them such a grievous wrong like they did to Half-elf and Half-orc.

Probably the biggest thing I expected from "Half-X is a feat now" was the ability to take them on races other than human. Like, Aasimar and Tieflings in PF 1e have rules in place to be from a race other than human, but that explicitly only changed their size category... and only if the DM allowed it.
As it stands now, I'm just straight up never going to play a half-race, why spend a feat on gaining access to racial feats when I could instead just be the actual real race? Not having the real race as an option (playable true genies when?) for the half-races not appearing in the playtest would suck.

[Sparksfanboy]

Ancestry doesn't do it for me. Should be changed back to Race.

[Corwin Icewolf]

Calling it ancestry opens the concept up more in a way. It's not that I had a problem with them being called races, just that calling it ancestry conceptually allows for more stuff like half elves being a heritage feat.(which while it good be argued was executed poorly, still seems like a better idea than making it completely distinct from humans) Terminology has an effect on how people think of things in the game.

I Just wish the ancestries felt less bare bones, but that's what playtests are for.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

If they made it Race then chargen wouldn't be ABC! Who could remember RBC?

[Celestial Hippeh Lawyer]

<_<

>_>

Just call it the Notorious RBC. {drops 5gp in the Pun Jar}

[PossibleCabbage]

FWIW, it's not like "Race" has never been an issue in the last 40ish years; if it's new to you that doesn't mean it's new.

I for one look forward to not having to apologize for Gygax's weird and wrong ideas anymore when I introduce new people to this family of games.

[Dysphoria Blues]

Hey, Patrick Newcarry. I just downloaded the PDF of the Playtest Rulebook (and impulsively purchased a hard-copy as well while at B&N last night :3) and this was one of the new changes that stood out to me as a positive.

One, yes, there is the direct mechanical effect you reference, but two - and more importantly - is that it is obvious Paizo is really trying to create a game that touts inclusivity for gamers of all types (see the section entitled Gaming Is For All on pages 5-6). The word "race" is charged and this helps move the verbage towards a more positive tone. (The gaming table is probably one of the only places in life where it isn't rude or offensive to look someone in the eye and genuinely ask: "What race are you?" Lol.) Also, and this is a subjective point, but I like the sound of Elf being my ancestry rather than my race. It just feels more poetic and archaic - just how like I like muh fantasy.

However, I believe I may just be feeding into what Gorbacz knew this could descend into. :P

Cheers!

-D.B.

[Anguish]

As I read through, I'm not bothered at all by the name change, but I do have a suggestion that might be useful.

It'd be cool if Paizo broke "ancestry" into two portions... "nature" and "nurture". A character could have "nature feats", which are biological, granting things like sharp teeth, long limbs, special senses and so on. They could also then have "nurture feats", which represent having been raised in a culture that specializes in fighting certain enemies, performing specific artforms, or learning about some topics.

Separating the two would allow for characters with a physical nature appropriate to their parentage, and a mental makeup appropriate to the nurture given them during their upbringing.

As it stands, ancestry is a somewhat odd-feeling mashup of the two. I get it it's being used as "origin", but there's some nuance being lost that I think could be capitalized upon by some granularity within the mechanic.

[PossibleCabbage]

Anguish wrote:

It'd be cool if Paizo broke "ancestry" into two portions... "nature" and "nurture". A character could have "nature feats", which are biological, granting things like sharp teeth, long limbs, special senses and so on. They could also then have "nurture feats", which represent having been raised in a culture that specializes in fighting certain enemies, performing specific artforms, or learning about some topics.

Isn't this effectively done by separating heritage feats (which are genetic, and thus can be taken at level 1), from other ancestry feats (you were taught by your people how to do x), from those things that all members of a given ancestry have always (e.g. Darkvision and Unburdened, High Con and Wis, and good HP for Dwarves)?

[RoninJT]

I'm ok with the concept of ancestry but they either went too far (making half-elf/half-orc an ancestry feat rather than their own ancestry) or they didn't go far enough (letting any ancestry take the half-elf/half-orc ancestry feats). It has always bothered me to no end that it's assumed that only humans could sire halfbreed children and then only with elves and orcs. I've been dying to play an official half-dwarf forever. Or a half-elf-half-orc. Or a half-dwarf-half-elf. If this is the concept they are going with for ancestry, they need to lean all the way into it and adjust and add half-race feats for every ancestry.

[Dysphoria Blues]

RoninJT: Half-race feats for everything, huh? Are you suggesting we open up Pandora's Box and allow for such things like the unholy fusion of man and chicken? I suggest your read up on the sad, sad tale of Chickenfoot and see just what it is you're proposing. (Looks longingly out the window, a glass of bourbon - neat - in hand.) A half-man, half-chicken wandering the fringes of society... doomed to live alone... (Takes a thoughtful sip of the booze.)

- D.B.

[JDLPF]

Dysphoria Blues wrote:

RoninJT: Half-race feats for everything, huh? Are you suggesting we open up Pandora's Box and allow for such things like the unholy fusion of man and chicken? I suggest your read up on the sad, sad tale of Chickenfoot and see just what it is you're proposing. (Looks longingly out the window, a glass of bourbon - neat - in hand.) A half-man, half-chicken wandering the fringes of society... doomed to live alone... (Takes a thoughtful sip of the booze.)

- D.B.

Somebody already did that.

(Props to Ravingdork and his awesome collection of pregens, especially for this gem)