Armor Master Armored Defense replacing Weapon Training 3


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

Generally when an archetype replaces an ability it, well, does something. When the Armor Master archetype replaces Weapon Training 1 it gives a small amount of DR and when it replaces Armor Mastery is gives a quite substantial amount of DR, quadruple in fact. But when it replaces Weapon Training 3 it does absolutely nothing. Is this an oversight or typo? Should it perhaps provide a moderate amount of DR at level 13, perhaps double the initial amount?

Scarab Sages

TheJrade wrote:
Generally when an archetype replaces an ability it, well, does something. When the Armor Master archetype replaces Weapon Training 1 it gives a small amount of DR and when it replaces Armor Mastery is gives a quite substantial amount of DR, quadruple in fact. But when it replaces Weapon Training 3 it does absolutely nothing. Is this an oversight or typo? Should it perhaps provide a moderate amount of DR at level 13, perhaps double the initial amount?

Not sure what you mean. The one ability (armored defense) replaces Weapon Training 1, Weapon training 3, and Armor Mastery.

And regarding the DR gained, the strong point to the ability is that this DR stacks with that gained from Adamantine Armor. So, really, at 5th you gain DR2/- for light armor, DR4/- for medium Armor, and DR 6/- for heavy armor. It's not a weak amount of DR provided you are wearing heavy adamantine armor.

That said, the cost of Heavy Adamantine armor is not cheap, and unlikely something you will have at 5th level when you get the ability. So if you need equivelent exchange, consider that your character will unlikely be able to take full advantage of this ability until you can afford adamantine full plate (at closer to the level of weapon training 3..).

Liberty's Edge

Murdock Mudeater wrote:
TheJrade wrote:
Generally when an archetype replaces an ability it, well, does something. When the Armor Master archetype replaces Weapon Training 1 it gives a small amount of DR and when it replaces Armor Mastery is gives a quite substantial amount of DR, quadruple in fact. But when it replaces Weapon Training 3 it does absolutely nothing. Is this an oversight or typo? Should it perhaps provide a moderate amount of DR at level 13, perhaps double the initial amount?

Not sure what you mean. The one ability (armored defense) replaces Weapon Training 1, Weapon training 3, and Armor Mastery.

And regarding the DR gained, the strong point to the ability is that this DR stacks with that gained from Adamantine Armor. So, really, at 5th you gain DR2/- for light armor, DR4/- for medium Armor, and DR 6/- for heavy armor. It's not a weak amount of DR provided you are wearing heavy adamantine armor.

That said, the cost of Heavy Adamantine armor is not cheap, and unlikely something you will have at 5th level when you get the ability. So if you need equivelent exchange, consider that your character will unlikely be able to take full advantage of this ability until you can afford adamantine full plate (at closer to the level of weapon training 3..).

Well as ong as you as assuming a 5th level character is also shelling out 15000 gold then yes you do get DR6. But I am just going off f what the archetype abilities are, and wonder why one goes straight from 3 at 5th level to 12 at 19th when an intermediate bump to 6 at 11 makes sense. Particularly considering a very useful offensive ability is traded.


TheJrade wrote:
Generally when an archetype replaces an ability it, well, does something. When the Armor Master archetype replaces Weapon Training 1 it gives a small amount of DR and when it replaces Armor Mastery is gives a quite substantial amount of DR, quadruple in fact. But when it replaces Weapon Training 3 it does absolutely nothing. Is this an oversight or typo? Should it perhaps provide a moderate amount of DR at level 13, perhaps double the initial amount?

It does what it says it does. Archetype class features do not always line up to improve at the same moments as the class features being replaced. You still get moderate fortification at 13th level, so you're better than some archetypes in that it isn't a complete dead level.

Scarab Sages Starfinder Design Lead

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It is neither an oversight nor a typo.


It's a bad idea in general to look at trades archetypes make ability by ability. These things aren't designed that way, sometimes a strong thing is traded for a weak thing so you can add another strong thing later. So archetypes need to be looked at holistically, because otherwise some trades make no sense at all.


personally i think it should have had the initial dr at level 5 then have an increase at level 9, 13 and 17(1,2,3 at 5, 2,4,6 at 9, 3,6,9 at 13, 4,8,12 at 17) and have scaling fortifications at the same time, light at 5, medium at 9, heavy at 13 and full fortification at 17

level 19 ability would add the armors ac to touch ac, then level 20 the armor would become part of the fighter like an extra layer of flesh have no armor check penalty and not be sunderable

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