Playtest= Bards are asking where there 10th level spells are at.

[Siro]

In regards to the subject, where is the feat which allows Bards to learn 10th level spells? The other full casting classes all have 20th level class feats that allows them access to 10th level spells, but this is missing from the Bard. Its also a bit confusing as the Bard preview blog a couple of weeks ago said they were full 10th level casters. Was the feat forgotten in the book, or was there a last minute change to the class?

Other than that, I'm liking a good portion of what I'm seeing, a couple of things I'm a little iffy, but that could change when I see it in action.

[UnArcaneElection]

Marking for interest.

[Bardess]

Give me my wishes!

[gustavo iglesias]

Bardess wrote:

Give me my wishes!

granted. You have 2 left.

[Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti]

This is a good observation.

[Distant Scholar]

Bards do have a 10th-level spell: fatal aria. They just have the one, though.

[Siro]

Distant Scholar- I was looking at the 'Fatal Aria' to, and this is where I guess part of my confusion comes from. 'Fatal Aria' is listed as a power, that uses spells points. Now, if powers are analogues to spells in this matter, (ie you still are counted as a '10th' level spell caster, just instead of using slots for your 10th level spell, you use spell points instead.), then I can see the reason for the Blog post listing Bards as 10th level casters. But I'm not sure Powers are the same as Spells for that matter. (Just a quick glance, non-casting classes such as monks or paladins get Spell Points and powers as well. Though you can also say this are acting as magical abilities for the class.)

I guess the other part of my confusion is, if 'Fatal Aria' is the answer to the question, then it would mean only Sorcerers which took the 'Aberrant' bloodline could gain those 10th level occult spells. Assuming an even distribution between classes {1/12= %8.333} and then and even distribution of bloodlines {1/6= %16.666) and assuming I don't bring eternal shame to my former math teachers, that would mean only about %1.4 of characters that reach 20th level would have the opportunity to gain access to the 10th level occult spell list.

As far as the playtest goes, this may not be of concern, as I think it only goes to level 17th for characters, so 20th level characters may not be an official thing for a while. And the only two spells not on another list is 'Fabricated truth' and 'Alter reality'-(which itself is just the Occult version of Wish).

[Xenocrat]

I think and hope they forgot the feat.

Fatal Aria is exactly like a 10th level Power Word Kill but using spell points rather than a single spell slot, so you can spam it. If it didn't have bolstered it would be a lot better, dumping 150 HP per round (at the steep cost of 6 spell points) on a tough foe would be nice.

If Bards do get regular 10th level spells, they and Wizards have it best. Bards can know a third known 10th level spell via that spellbook feat, giving maximum flexibility, and Wizards have the ability to cast a 10th twice per day, because of their arcane focus.

[Siro]

I kinda of forgot about the spellbook feat in regards to 10th level spells, it would give extra flexibility {and for what its worth, there are a couple of lower level spells you could heighten into that 10th level slot). Although all the 10th level spells are listed as 'Uncommon' so there would have to be a bit more effort then going to ye old Magic store to buy the secrets of altering time and space to your will.

[Xenocrat]

Siro wrote:

I kinda of forgot about the spellbook feat in regards to 10th level spells, it would give extra flexibility {and for what its worth, there are a couple of lower level spells you could heighten into that 10th level slot). Although all the 10th level spells are listed as 'Uncommon' so there would have to be a bit more effort then going to ye old Magic store to buy the secrets of altering time and space to your will.

Yeah, knocking off a 20th level Wizard who has one of your overlocking spells so you can translate his book might be hard.

[Siro]

Xenocrat wrote:

Siro wrote:

I kinda of forgot about the spellbook feat in regards to 10th level spells, it would give extra flexibility {and for what its worth, there are a couple of lower level spells you could heighten into that 10th level slot). Although all the 10th level spells are listed as 'Uncommon' so there would have to be a bit more effort then going to ye old Magic store to buy the secrets of altering time and space to your will.

Yeah, knocking off a 20th level Wizard who has one of your overlocking spells so you can translate his book might be hard.

Why fight the Wizard when we could be friends. We are Bards after all, its kinda of what we do. :p

[Bardess]

gustavo iglesias wrote:

Bardess wrote:

Give me my wishes!

granted. You have 2 left.

Huh? Thanks! I wIsh for peace on Earth and the Great Library of Babel, please.

[PossibleCabbage]

I feel like the omission of 10th level spells for bards is deliberate.

Since Bards are going from 2/3 casters to full casters in PF2 (because it's unclear if anybody is going to be a "partial caster" this time), but it's not like they are the most castery class out of all the planned classes who are occult casters (either the Witch or the Psychic are a fair bit more magical.)

So it's possible those 10th level spells exist because we want to lay out the full lists for all of the magical traditions (until we start adding to them), but are being held in reserve for classes that don't exist yet (and Occult sorcerers can get them too.)

[James Jacobs]

The feat got forgotten, never fear. The transition of bards up to a full caster class caused that feat to slip through the cracks.

As far as I know. And as far as I care, since bards are my favorite class and I'm in a position to push hard to MAKE sure that feat isn't forgotten! :-P

AKA: Thanks for pointing this out folks! Reason #2,320 why playtesting is important and awesome!

[Dragonborn3]

Did the Sorcerer's Extra Heightening feat get forgotten too? It doesn't make a lot of sense for bards to have it but not sorcerers.