Excessive amounts of buff spells (Spoilers for Reign of Winter Adventure Path)

[The Mad Comrade]

A mammal that lays eggs that will absolutely jack you up ...

We need dire vorpal platypuses

[The Sideromancer]

Heart-Seeking would be better. They're more likely to deal piercing than slashing damage.

[The Mad Comrade]

The Sideromancer wrote:

Heart-Seeking would be better. They're more likely to deal piercing than slashing damage.

brainpiercing, or is heart-seeking the Piercing version of vorpal? I've forgotten.

[The Sideromancer]

I just checked, heart-seeking is a +1 melee ability that does something else, Heart-piercing is the equivalent to vorpal, but is ranged exclusive. So maybe we need to throw the toxic chimeras at people.

[The Mad Comrade]

Or maybe we go all out and add the winged creature template. They can fling themselves at people after hissing a warning. ;)

[Kerobelis]

I noticed on the Kyra pregen sheet bless now requires concentration. Is this how they are limiting buffs? Does concentration require an action each turn?

[Roswynn]

Kerobelis wrote:

I noticed on the Kyra pregen sheet bless now requires concentration. Is this how they are limiting buffs? Does concentration require an action each turn?

*Bless* requires an action each turn to keep working. We still don't know if other buffs will be similarly limited. They might have different requisites. Or none.

[Kerobelis]

Roswynn wrote:

Kerobelis wrote:

I noticed on the Kyra pregen sheet bless now requires concentration. Is this how they are limiting buffs? Does concentration require an action each turn?

*Bless* requires an action each turn to keep working. We still don't know if other buffs will be similarly limited. They might have different requisites. Or none.

A fairly hefty cost for a simple buff spell. Can concentration be disrupted?

[Roswynn]

Kerobelis wrote:

Roswynn wrote:

Kerobelis wrote:

I noticed on the Kyra pregen sheet bless now requires concentration. Is this how they are limiting buffs? Does concentration require an action each turn?

*Bless* requires an action each turn to keep working. We still don't know if other buffs will be similarly limited. They might have different requisites. Or none.

A fairly hefty cost for a simple buff spell. Can concentration be disrupted?

I think stun definitely does the trick. Other than that, if during a round you somehow can't use that action to keep the Bless up, your concentration has been disrupted and the spell should end prematurely (normally it can last up to 1 minute).

If you're ever slowed 3 you can't perform any action, ending the Bless. Sickened takes 1 of your actions automatically to try and puke, recovering from the condition. If you're on fire you might want to stop drop and roll, which might use a couple actions, but no one's forcing you. But I personally haven't seen any conditions that completely stop you from taking any actions (I think stun might do so, as I said).

[dragonhunterq]

Bless requiring concentration sounds ... limiting and unfun.

officially adding buffs to my list of concerns re: PF2 :(

[Unicore]

dragonhunterq wrote:

Bless requiring concentration sounds ... limiting and unfun.

officially adding buffs to my list of concerns re: PF2 :(

I understand where this sentiment is coming from, but a +1 to hit is now very likely a +1 to critical threat range now, which makes bless a far more powerful spell that it use to be. There are many times where maintaining that will be much better than attacking, especially as a 3rd action.

[dragonhunterq]

Unicore wrote:

dragonhunterq wrote:

Bless requiring concentration sounds ... limiting and unfun.

officially adding buffs to my list of concerns re: PF2 :(

I understand where this sentiment is coming from, but a +1 to hit is now very likely a +1 to critical threat range now, which makes bless a far more powerful spell that it use to be. There are many times where maintaining that will be much better than attacking, especially as a 3rd action.

I can understand the reasons for it with bless, but it definitely puts other buffs on my watch list. If all buffs work the same way ...

I like multiple buffs with many small bonuses affecting a wide range of relevant abilities. While some reduction is not necessarily a bad thing limiting stacking (which isn't confirmed, but hinted at) and limiting the amount of buffs you can have up is overkill from my perspective.

[Deadmanwalking]

dragonhunterq wrote:

I can understand the reasons for it with bless, but it definitely puts other buffs on my watch list. If all buffs work the same way ...

We know Mutagens, which are an ongoing buff, aren't concentration or anything. My personal bet is that most buff spells aren't, Bless is just an exception because it's level 1 and an area effect and +1 is such a better bonus now.

I do expect Bardic Performance to follow suit and be one action a turn, though.

[Staffan Johansson]

One idea for limiting buffs, although not as severely as 5e does via Concentration: One active effect per caster per target. This would mean that the wizard can't buff himself with both fly, invisibility, stoneskin, and haste, but he can cast resist fire on the whole party in anticipation of a battle with a red dragon.

I could see some spells being exempt from this limit, such as mage armor.

[Staffan Johansson]

Roswynn wrote:

Kerobelis wrote:

I noticed on the Kyra pregen sheet bless now requires concentration. Is this how they are limiting buffs? Does concentration require an action each turn?

*Bless* requires an action each turn to keep working. We still don't know if other buffs will be similarly limited. They might have different requisites. Or none.

Kyra also has a cantrip called forbidding ward, giving one friendly target +1 AC against one opponent and also requiring concentration. So it may or may not be universal, but it's definitely not a bless-only thing.

[Sara Marie]

I changed the thread title to indicate there are Reign of Winter spoilers in here. I also removed a bunch of posts. Don't get into fights on our forums.