20 point buy
S 14 (and +2 from Human)
D 14
C 14
I 10
W 12
Ch 8
That's 15 point buy. You don't "pay" for racial adjustments .
I'd probably also lower your Cha with another point.
4:Stand Still (Slayer/Rogue Talent - Combat Trick)
5:Step Up
6:Improved TWF (from Slayer/Ranger Talent)
7:Lunge
8:Improved Critical (Slayer/Rogue Talent - Combat Trick)
Unless otherwise noted, you can't take the same rogue talent twice. I'd assume the same holds for taking Combat Trick as a slayer.
Stand still isn't a particularly exciting feat, so I'd probably try to get that one switched out.
For a 20 point buy, I'd go something like:
S 16+2
D 14
C 14
I 12
W 12
Ch 7
Or if you want to try to use a few of the CHA-based skills, I might do:
S 16+2
D 14
C 14
I 10
W 10
Ch 10
But even if you dump Charisma, if there's just one or two Charisma-based skills you're wanting to pick up, there are a various traits that would help offset the -2 penalty to that specific skill or skills.
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I have done something similar to the first.
Skip the crit feats everything will be dead after a full attack. Oppertunist is great keep that. Consider using a lubricant and a shield for better AC shield master for enchantment of a weapon and bashing finish for more attacks.
I used my free feats to get a familair with a menacing amulet. I also picked one that can umd wands on me.
Stand Still only works on adjacent opponents. I houseruled it in my games to work against anyone you can attack, but otherwise it's not that good.
Combat Reflexes can be nice, but double slice is a better pickup. I'd just hold off on it until you can do +10 damage from strength.
Another thing is that setting up sneak attacks isn't easy, and the slayer does decent damage without sneak attack so I wouldn't focus on it.
If you insist on it then boost your initiative, and try to go with a dex to damage build since you'll need high dex to ensure winning initiative anyway. I'd also put points into acrobatics to make it easier to get the flank.
I also wouldn't worry about bleeding attack. It's minimal damage. I would take Iron Will because you don't want your slayer to shred the party after a dominate spell.
As noted by wraithstrike, traditional Surprise, Stealth, or Flanking Sneak Attacks can sometimes be tough to set up, so you may want to build in some additional way to generate extra Sneak Attacks, whether that's some special attacks or abilities that make the enemy flat-footed, or some of the feat combos that let you Sneak Attack enemies with certain conditions.
An example would be something like maximizing Intimidate, taking the Blade of Mercy trait that allows you to deal nonlethal damage with slashing weapons at no penalty, then taking the Enforcer feat that allows you to Demoralize enemies that you hit with nonlethal damage and make them Shaken, followed by the Shadows of Fear feat that lets you sneak attack enemies suffering from fear effects (of which Shaken is one example). The Intimidating Prowess feat is a nice addition to an Intimidate/Demoralize build, since you're dumping Charisma and will have a high Strength score.
Having some way to turn yourself invisible, or make enemies blind, is another way to generate extra Sneak Attacks. (This can be through Use Magic Device and wands, using magic items or alchemical items, or coordinating tactics with your party's caster.) Attacking from invisibility or attacking a blind enemy renders your enemy flat-footed.
Maximizing Use Magic Device and picking up a wand of Grease is another option, although better for reach/ranged weapons. Grease the ground in front of you, and any enemies that move through it have to make Acrobatics checks and are considered Flat-Footed.
Another way is maximizing Bluff and picking up feats like Two Weapon Feint and Improved Two Weapon Feint. A successful feint renders your enemy flat-footed. But you would need to take the Combat Expertise feat and have Dex 15+ and Int 13+, so you'd need to move your ability points around a bit for a Feint build. (Something like Str 15+2, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 12, Ch 7.) The Slayer’s Feint feat lets you substitute Acrobatics for Bluff when it comes to feinting, which is handy since you'd already be taking Combat Expertise and you're dumping Charisma in favor of Dexterity.
I'm looking for some advice on a Human TWF Slayer. Generally, I'd be probably be the party "Rogue" and also damage dealer. I'm looking for pitfalls or feats that aren't worthwhile or things I'm overlooking - or what feats might be better at level 10/11+. Is there a better weapon to take? I'm trying to maintain full attacks if possible. Is there an archetype that would work out? A different race? Do I need more maneuver/movement abilities/tricks to set up flanks/sneak attacks? No 3rd party. Thanks in advance.
* Wakizashis are better than kukris, and they're only 1500gp away, as an Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun stone grants martial proficiency (which you don't have, but more on that in a minute).
* Slayer is OK, but Unchained rogue is better for TWF builds.* Humans are OK, but halflings are born to play TWF rogues.
Str- 10 (2)
Dex+ 19 (13) Halfling, 20pt
Con: 14 (5)
Int: 7 (-4)
WIs: 12 (2)
Cha+ 14 (2)
alignment: CN
Traits: Berserker of the Society, Bestial Wrath
01 barbarian1 [sav-tech][martial weapon proficiency], Extra Rage
02 uRogue1 [weapon finesse], SA+1d6
03 uRogue2 [talent:Combat Trick:TWF][evasion], Risky Striker, buy ioun
04 uRogue3 [finesse wakizashi, dex>damage], Dex>20
05 uRogue4 [Uncanny Dodge][Talent:Underhanded Trick], WF:Wakizashi
Attack bonus at 5th:
4 (BAB)
1 (+1 weapon)
8 (Dex + belt + rage)
1 (weapon focus)
= +14, or +12/+12 TWF (+9/+9 if 5th...Piranha Strike)
+2 (crit confirmation via Bestial Wrath)
Damage: d6+...
8 (dex/belt/rage)
1 (+1 weapon)
4 (Risky Striker)
4 (if 5th...Piranha Strike)
2d6 (sneak attack)
* Bone up on Underhanded Trick
* Uncanny Dodge means you're never flatfooted (a big deal for you)
* Do a Nethys search for other halfling-related stuff
(Addendum)
1 (small size)
= +15, or +13/+13 TWF @ 5th
...and d4 base weapon die, because of course halfling-sized.
Skills (6/level): Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Perception, Stealth, (grab-bag 2/L); at 8th, you've a choice of Dex>21 or Int>8 and slam the point-gain into Use Magic Device.
Armor: quilted-cloth until Celestial.
You can only take the "Combat Trick" slayer talent once, but you can also take-
Finesse Rogue (weapon finesse)
Weapon Training (weapon focus)
and of course, Ranger Combat Style 3 times.
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Just for comparison I built a slayer using a similar strategy to Slim Jim. What class is better really depend on the level and how much you value evasion, rogues edge. Vs better fort, bigger hd.
My analysis suggest that for damage when the slayer wins it wins big as a result of extra attacks earlier. When the rogue wins it's by a little. But the rogue has debilitating injury which helps the whole team and is a major x factor.
The slayer deals with sneak attack immunity and DR much better by carrying a back up two handed weapon and thf power attack through an issues. Headsmans blade is an amazing back hp weapon. At higher levels.
SavTech 1 Slayer 4.
Attack bonus at 5th:
5 (BAB)
1 (+1 weapon)
7 (4 Str + 1 belt + 2 rage)
1 (weapon focus)
1 Study
= +15, or +13/+13 TWF (+11/+11 power attack)
+2 (crit confirmation via Bestial Wrath)
Damage: d6+...
7 (dex/belt/rage)
1 (+1 weapon)
4 (if 5th...Power Attack)
+1 study
2d6 (sneak attack)
At 5 you are a bit behind in damage becuase of risky striker nothing from the rogue make you better.
Level 6 the rogue gets an extra d6 sneak attack (3.5 average damage) the slayer get +2 to hit bab and study (~4 damage) and +1 damage, total dpr gain of 5. Plus an iteritaive attack. Taking the lead.
At 7 slayer gets ITWF (4 attacks total). Itwf one level earlier than the rogue. Huge lead here.
Rogue catches up in number of attacks at 8 if you retrain into (ITWF). With one more sneak attack dice. The slayer when using power attack has +1 attack and +2 damage this level is close with retraining slayer wins without.
Nine same number of attacks. No retraining. But 2 attack behind when power attacking 3 if not.
Slayer gets tw rend at 11. Rogue gets it at 15.
@Slim Jim - It doesn't say anything about getting proficiency with Wakizashis for the Unchained Rogue 3rd level Finesse Training ability. You'd have to overcome that somehow, wouldn't you?(...)
Cracked: The stone grants the wearer weapon familiarity with the keyed weapon (it is treated as a martial weapon for him). Price: 1,500 gp.
The 1st-level martial dip bestows martial weapon proficiency to the build, so you're go-to-good.
At higher level, buy the unblemished version of the OWP and tuck it into a Wayfinder -- this not only protects the stone from clever opponents, but grants Weapon Focus as a resonant power, thereby saving you a feat.
Just for comparison I built a slayer using a similar strategy to Slim Jim. What class is better really depend on the level and how much you value evasion, rogues edge. Vs better fort, bigger hd.
The halfling is the better overall package: insanely high touch-AC that never shuts off due to Uncanny Dodge means he can't be blown away in the Surprise Round even if he rolls a 1 on INIT (unless he fails a will save and is zonked out), is +1 bonus to all saves and likely has a MUCH higher reflex save and attendant bonus to important dexterity skills. In a campaign like PFS, where Celestial Armor exists but Celestial Plate does not, the strong builds will be spending a lot more on armor to achieve decent AC (albeit lacking in the Touch department, meaning firearms, rays, and incorporeals remain serious threats). And the money you save by not needing healing (or soaking an ally's divine spell) due to Evasion is get-out-of-death-free when the GM's upended bucket of Empowered d6s turn up near max damage. Being fresh is always better than being half-down, and being the guy who UMD-heals the dropped, ate-full-damage cleric is down-payment on the TPK-avoidance plan. (Slayer doesn't get UMD, I note, likely because Paizo hybrid-class authors really are neutral-evil and knew exactly what would happen in those situations.)
--Either build will do the job offensively, but once Underhanded Trick and Greater Dirty Trick are salted away, things just *die* regardless of your damage. At that point, the build with better defenses and skill bonuses is the one best able to avoid rebound from ancillary opponents, and be of most use to the party OoC.)
My analysis suggest that for damage when the slayer wins it wins big as a result of extra attacks earlier. When the rogue wins it's by a little. But the rogue has debilitating injury which helps the whole team and is a major x factor.Debilitating Injury and Dirty Trick in Unchained Rogue definitely mean that the rogue is no longer the worst martial class. (I never sack a rogue's charisma, btw, even if I seldom Bluff or Intimidate. --Use Magic Device is just too good of thing.
The slayer deals with sneak attack immunity and DR much better by carrying a back up two handed weapon and thf power attack through an issues. Headsmans blade is an amazing back hp weapon. At higher levels.At higher levels, the halfling will quality for Power Attack with a strength of 14 (upgraded belt), sav-tech rage to an 18, and still be wearing dex-maxed-out Celestial Armor. In the low-mid levels, Risky Striker is actually better than Power Attack because its bonus damage is granted to both main-hand and off-hand weapons during TWF, and penalizes AC rather than PA's attack-bonus so you're more likely to get your hits and confirms through. E.g....
...This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon....
Risky Striker and Piranha Strike both lack this limitation, and they stack.
--The strong build will definitely stomp at 1st and 2nd, but few adversaries have a ton of hitpoints at that level. Where the TWF halfling really racks up the damage by mid-levels is after Improved Critical. With four ITWF attacks at 15-20 threat, he's 76% to score a threat every full-attack to double those escalating dex+risky+piranha bonuses.
(...)
05 uRogue4 [Uncanny Dodge][Talent:Underhanded Trick], WF:Wakizashi (retrained out high-level @ OWP/Wayfinder)
06 Samurai1 [Sovereign Blade][Dogmatic Denial][Resolve][Challenge]
07 Samurai2 [BAB6][Order of the (Cockatrice or Warrior)], Greater Dirty Trick
...buy Vambraces of the Tactician and Champion's Banner for an additional +8 numeric damage to Challenged opponents 2x/day. A Daikyu of Commanding Presence is also on the item list at some point. (Note: a clever GM noting your Rovagug trait and thieving ways may insist that you lack honor...well, that's what UMD is for to hoodwink that cherry bow into working for you.)
08 (back to rogue, or continue multiclassing)
If you're going TWF, you should consider a dex build in lieu of a str build. Sacrificing 1 feat slot for weapon finesse is worth it, plus you get all the added AC bonuses as you level up and get more gear that pumps dex up.
About your build, if you're going to TWF, it's the best time to go Quick Dirty Trick + Dirty Trick Master. It only eats up one of your attacks to make a Quick Dirty Trick and it's some of the nastiest debuffing in the game (Blind, Nauseate, Dazed, etc.) Go human for the FCB 1/6 slayer talent.
20pt buy - Human Slayer
Str 13
Dex 20(18+2human)
Con 12
Int 8 (you get 6+int skills per level, you don't actually need int, and you can keep at least 3-4 maxed, you can buff int with items later)
Wis 10
Cha 10
Enchants:
Keen (+1)
Agile (+1)
Cruel (+1)
Skills:
Stealth (Max)
Intimidate (Max)
Traits:
Dangerously Curious - for UMD so you can buff yourself wands and scrolls
Child of the Moon - +1, +2 or +4 Stealth, depending on the Moon Cycle.
For TWF, get two Dual-Balanced, Keen, Agile, Cruel Kukri. For added funsies, get another Kukri with a +2 Anchoring enchantment on it and start combat with it in your left hand. Stick your target in the back, activate the anchoring enchantment, and draw your proper Left Kukri, and either carve him like a turkey while he can't move or go attack something else.
1lv Weapon Finesse (get agile enchants asap)
1lv: Skill Focus: Stealth (Focused Study in place of Human Bonus Feat)
2lv: (slayer talent) RCS: TWF
3lv: Dirty Fighting
4lv (slayer talent): Poison Use, +1dex
5lv: Improved Dirty Trick
6lv: Rogue Weapon Training: (Weapon Focus: Kukri)
6lv (extra slayer talent): ranger style=>improved TWF
7lv: Quick Dirty Trick
8lv (slayer talent): combat trick=>Power Attack, Human Bonus Feat (Skill Focus: Intimidate), +1 dex
9lv: Greater Dirty trick
10lv (Slayer Advanced Talent): Feat: Cornugon Smash (get cruel enchant now)
11lv Hurtful or Agile Maneuvers or Hellcat Stealth
12lv (Slayer Advanced Talent): Feat: Shatter Defenses, +1 dex
12lv (extra slayer talent): Feat: Dirty Trick Master
With Cruel Enchantment and Cornugon Smash, you can Intimidate every time you Power Attack, and cause -4 att, skills, saves, abilchecks, and a -2 dmg with Shaken/Sicken combo. With Shatter Defenses, you can attack FFAC instead of regular AC, and get Sneak Attack dmg every hit. Hurtful gets you an extra attack per round as a swift, or Agile Maneuvers gets you Dex to CMB to land Dirty Tricks, or Hellcat Stealth allows you to stealth while being actively viewed (this is huge for survivability in late game because they need to roll Perception vs your absurdly high stealth). Greater DT Master gets you insane debuffing potential; sickened > nauseated, blind, dazzled > dazed, etc. Greater DT Master is absolutely sick for a Slayer, especially with TWF.
For example at lvl 12, you could have a Stealth check that is absolutely monstrous, especially if you have a wand of Greater Invisibility.
So, you could have a Stealth of: 3ClassSkill + 12SkillRanks + 8dex(if you keep pumping dex at each level - and with appropriately considering Dex boosting Items) + 6SkillFocus + 1-4ChildoftheMoon = 1d20 +30-34 Stealth, plus an additional +20/40 from Greater Invisibility.
When you're level 12, you can sicken the first round as one of your Attacks, which requires their Standard action to remove, and if they don't remove it, the following round you can Nauseate the target, resigning them to move actions only (and thus cannot clear your 1d4+1 round nauseate because it requires a standard action due to Greater Dirty Trick). Next round, blind them with one of your 6-ish attacks.
Get some Boots of Haste for an extra attack per round.
Pick out some Poisons that can really pile on the pressure as well. These are all great poisons to consider:
Drow Poison
Burnt Othur Fumes
Deathblade
Blue Whinnis
Diplopic Serum
Dreaming Death
Night's-Eye Dust
Rainbow Scarab Shell
GDTM Slayers are the things that GMs tell ghost/nightmare stories to their kids about. They're absolutely filthy.
Lvl 13+, you can get Step Up & Strike, Combat Reflexes, Opportunist, all kinds of fun stuff.
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Slayer is OK, but Unchained rogue is better for TWF builds.
Slim Jim you have a few good points but they are all Halfing related the don't prove that the unchained rogue is better at TWF than the slayer which you claimed.
Second you can't stack power attack with piranha strike. If the rogue want two weapon rend it requires double slice which is a wasted feat and fixes the power attack problem slayer.
Celestial plate costs:can be used by either build the max dex is 8 so your talking about 2 or 3 ac difference depending on the point buy. Remember this armor is stuck at +3. Total ac 9 armor 8 dex. 17 total.
If the slayer uses mithril breast plate 11 (6+5) armor +5 dex. 16 total. You are very slightly behind 1 ac 6 thousand gold level 8 or higher.
The Halfing or small race here make as much of a difference here as dex rogue or strength. So again it does nothing to prove that rogues are stronger twf than slayers.
If you care about comparing slayer twf build to rogues for ac then the fact that the slayer is the most viable heavy shield twf build in the game means no contest. The additional +2 and an additional slot for cheap enchantment.
It's not a demerit to select the most synergistic race.Slayer is OK, but Unchained rogue is better for TWF builds.Slim Jim you have a few good points but they are all Halfing related
the don't prove that the unchained rogue is better at TWF than the slayer which you claimed.
I use "better" in the context of the total package. Humans always suffer in multiple departments compared to racially-synergistic builds. For instance, Ryze Kuja's build in the post above yours starts with a 20 in Dex but has the same attack-bonus as the 19 Dex halfling enjoying a size bonus to attack, and is relatively -1 at 4th-8th, etc).
Paying for that ruinous-cost 20 in point-buy and electing for the human Slayer FCB results in, relative to the 19 Dex halfling build up-page: a -2 will save, -4 Fear save, -4 Perception, -2 fort save, -2 HP/level, -3 Stealth, -3 Acrobatics, and -2 all charisma skills. The human Slayer variant FCB slowly but steadily picks up talents, but forfeits Uncanny Dodge and Evasion -- and tolerance for eating AoE half-damage is dicey in a 12 con build forfeiting FCB hitpoints. (Adding insult, evasion isn't available on the slayer Talent list either, and those rings are stupid expensive.)
The Slayer does benefit from full BAB, but loses some of the edge if built for strength (resulting in poorer initiative relative to dex builds enjoying a wider selection of flatfooted opponents at the beginning of combat).
Second you can't stack power attack with piranha strike.Never said you could. I was merely merely demonstrating that PA isn't necessarily excluded from the halfling build with a starting 10 in Str if he wants PA down the road.
If the rogue want two weapon rend it requires double slice which is a wasted feat and fixes the power attack problem slayer.I didn't have TWR or Double Slice in my build. IMO Double Slice isn't the best use of a slot in a build not acquiring feats at a fighter's pace, until mid/high level. Securing hits takes precedence. For example, Ryze Kuja's suggestion of Dirty Fighting + (eventually) Quick Dirty Trick would save my halfling a Talent (he swaps Underhanded Trick for Dirty Fighting, although the talent>feat conversion is irksome, and Dirty Fighting alone is useless; I'd probably use the retraining rules to enjoy Underhanded for awhile).
Celestial plate costs:can be used by either build the max dex is 8 so your talking about 2 or 3 ac difference depending on the point buy. Remember this armor is stuck at +3. Total ac 9 armor 8 dex. 17 total.Yeah; I'd meant to edit that out and forgot before an hour was up. --Lately I've been just sticking with Quilted Cloth at low levels (never upgraded too far, if at all) before switching to Haramaki + Dancing Scarves. Or, don't spend money on armor at in the early game (see below). A dex-rager can easily get to 30 dex by 12th if he's already 22 at 4th with a +2 belt, and at that point, leather armor is already maxed out.
If the slayer uses mithril breast plate 11 (6+5) armor +5 dex. 16 total. You are very slightly behind 1 ac 6 thousand gold level 8 or higher. The Halfing or small race here make as much of a difference here as dex rogue or strength. So again it does nothing to prove that rogues are stronger twf than slayers.Dropping the comparison to Celestial for the moment, let's look at the halfling rogue not wearing any armor *at all* at 8th: Assuming he's upgraded his belt to +4 for dex by 8th (as opposed to +4 Strength for the strong-Slayer build) for a raging dex of 27 at that point, he has a base AC of 10+8+1(small) = 19, before anything else. With UMD'd Mage Armor, he'll be +4 most of the time for 23 before adding anything else (buckler, rings, amulets, feats, etc). The MBP-wearer has the AC advantage if he's attacked while asleep. The halfling has a monster Stealth score and is ideally suited to ganking opponents while they are sleeping. C'est la vie.
If you care about comparing slayer twf build to rogues for ac then the fact that the slayer is the most viable heavy shield twf build in the game means no contest. The additional +2 and an additional slot for cheap enchantment.
The halfling wears a buckler and gets the same additional slot. As a dex-rogue, he enjoys a considerable survivability advantage versus AoE and attacks versus touch-AC. The Slayer's ability to equip a heavy shield is meaningless for both 2hPA builds (such as for Headsman's Blade) and TWF builds unless the latter soaks a lot of feats into shield-bashing gimmicks (and shieldbashing will be generating threats at only a third the rate of an off-hand kukri or waki, and only one-sixth the time after Improved Critical as I doubt any shieldbasher would take that feat for the shield whereas two-weapon crit-fishers certainly will).
I personally feel like TWF is more for Rogues than for Slayers, but that's just a gut feeling. I'm not saying all full-BAB classes should go for a two-handed build, but I think it works better in this case. Slayers lag behind a bit on sneak attack dice, that really hampers their damage output, I feel.
For comparison: At level 9, both the rogue and Slayer have an iterative attack, so the same number of attacks. Both can take Improved TWF, so I'll leave that out for now. Say you start an Unchained Rogue, so Dex to damage, Strength is irrelevant. You start both characters with an 18 in either Dex or Strength (Rogue and slayer respectively), which'll probably become 22 with a Belt and stat increase at those points. That's a +6 damage modifier. No magical weapons, just to simplify. Say both attacks hit (Rogue wields daggers, Slayer wields kukris, both have Double Slice), and both get sneak attack. A Rogue does 2d4+12 (normal damage) +10d6 (sneak attack) damage, which averages out to 52 damage. A Slayer does 2d4+12 (normal damage) +4 (studied target) +6d6 (sneak attack). That's only 42 damage. Yeah, slightly better crit range, but that means he'll catch up to the Rogue in damage output 10% of the time (two opportunities to threat 5% easier) (don't think the actual math works out like that, but you get the idea). Accomplished Sneak Attacker gives 7 more damage, almost playing even, but not quite.
Meanwhile, a greatsword-wielding Slayer with Power Attack takes a -1 to hit compared to TWF for a much more increased damage output. On two successful hits, he does 4d6+18 (weapon damage) +4 (studied target) + 6d6 (sneak attack) +18 (two-handed power attack) damage, for a total of 75 damage, with the same crit range as the Rogue. I think I'll take a 5% chance to miss for 20 more damage.
If none of the above can get sneak attacks off, and just hit normally, a single hit from the Rogue would deal 1d4+6 damage, TWF slayer 1d4+8, and the greatsword-wielding maniac 2d6+22 damage.
With this math, I don't see a TWF Slayer really being that good. For pure TWF goodness, a Rogue has you beat. Yeah, you can grab Improved TWF, but you still can't catch up with a two-handed Slayer (23 more damage, which makes him still fall about 10 damage short).
As said, I don't want to ruin your dreams, but I personally feel it's not worth it. But I could very well be wrong, math has never been my strong suit. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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It's the crits, Quentin; it's all about the crits. A TWF is 49% to score a threat every round with only two attacks once they've acquired Keen or Improved Critical for a 15-20/x2 range. You're 24% to score two threats each full-attack with ITWF. At that point, who cares about sneaks? Pshw. Non-numeric damage is only frosting. --Pile those numeric bonuses to the moon and watch targets explode in a pink mist. (This is why an ordinary dagger rogue is extremely dangerous when built right: with ITWF and ImpCrit, he's gaining ~6 pts damage just off the River Rat trait in a full-attack, unhasted. Give an Unchained kukri/waki TWF a dip into a dex-rage class, and it's worth +~14 pts extra every full attack, +20 with +1/Furious weaponry vs. +2s. Dip three levels in Weapon Master fighter with dueling gloves? ...add another +~20 pts. Dip two into samurai and snarf vambraces and banner? ...add another +55(!) versus a Challenged meat-sack. Just keep piling it on: Risky Striker and Piranha Strike are both contributing +6 per swap at BAB 8.
You're a rogue. It's a state of mind. You will shamelessly five-finger-discount all the best goodies from every class (even Slayer, if you want it); and if you're not born a halfling, you keep committing suicide at character-creation until you win the reincarnation lottery and finally are.
Elementals? Then you stand back and let the 2hPA guys shine. (Nobody can be tops at everything.)
The power of the TWF Slayer is that they don't have to qualify for TWF feats (the three they take as Ranger Combat Styles), so they can be high STR and have a low Dex and still get TWF, Improved TWF, and Greater TWF.
Well with slayers, if you like cheese a single level vivisectionist alchemist dip solves the slower sneak attack progression issue but... I wouldn't if I were you. It's pretty silly.
The power of the TWF Slayer is that they don't have to qualify for TWF feats (the three they take as Ranger Combat Styles), so they can be high STR and have a low Dex and still get TWF, Improved TWF, and Greater TWF.
Exactly. A slayer will have higher bab and accuracy, better return on power attack and double slice, get the twf feats faster, not have to spend feats on getting dex to attack/damage, has a better fort save, and starts with proficiency in kukris instead of having to burn a feat or hoping to find just the right item.
The power of the TWF Slayer is that they don't have to qualify for TWF feats (the three they take as Ranger Combat Styles), so they can be high STR and have a low Dex and still get TWF, Improved TWF, and Greater TWF.Exactly. A slayer will have higher bab and accuracy, better return on power attack and double slice, get the twf feats faster, not have to spend feats on getting dex to attack/damage, has a better fort save, and starts with proficiency in kukris instead of having to burn a feat or hoping to find just the right item.
Unchained rogue doesn't have to spend feats on dex to attack or damage either, and you don't need a feat to gain a martial weapon proficiency when OWP iouns are a thing and you have a rage-class dip level in your build. As stated previously, Piranha Strike and Risky Striker grant the full amount of additional damage to off-hand attacks (versus Power Attack's nerfed 0.5x). Next, the BAB/accuracy argument: those who go first enjoy attacking the diminished AC of flatfooted opponents, and that'll be most of them for the dex guys and fewer for the strength guys. With Dirty Trick and Debilitating Injury, whomever gets hit is probably well screwed for the rest of their short life (i.e., 3/4ths vs full-BAB contribution to attack bonus at that point hardly matters versus gonnabedeadsoon). In the "old days" I once wore an Agile AoMF with a finessing fighter[Unarmed] who slashed with a waki in the main hand and Dragon Style punched with his left for an effective 2.5x dex-to-damage with his two TWF attacks; dude was the Tasmanian Devil. Today, that build would tighten up and save a ton of money with unchained rogue.
And fort saves are never a problem in multiclass martial builds anyway. (Straight-class martials...? <shrug> Some people like 'em, I guess....)
But will not the twf fighter be stronger than both of them?
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Unchained rogue doesn't have to spend feats on dex to attack or damage either, and you don't need a feat to gain a martial weapon proficiency when OWP iouns are a thing and you have a rage-class dip level in your build. As stated previously, Piranha Strike and Risky Striker grant the full amount of additional damage to off-hand attacks (versus Power Attack's nerfed 0.5x). Next, the BAB/accuracy argument: those who go first enjoy attacking the diminished AC of flatfooted opponents, and that'll be most of them for the dex guys and fewer for the strength guys. With Dirty Trick and Debilitating Injury, whomever gets hit is probably well screwed for the rest of their short life (i.e., 3/4ths vs full-BAB contribution to attack bonus at that point hardly matters versus gonnabedeadsoon). In the "old days" I once wore an Agile AoMF with a finessing fighter[Unarmed] who slashed with a waki in the main hand and Dragon Style punched with his left for an effective 2.5x dex-to-damage with his two TWF attacks; dude was the Tasmanian Devil. Today, that build would tighten up and save a ton of money with unchained rogue.
And fort saves are never a problem in multiclass martial builds anyway. (Straight-class martials...? <shrug> Some people like 'em, I guess....)
But why does it have to be a Rogue? Why does it have to be a Halfling? And most importantly, why every damn character of yours has to be a Barbarian (Savage Technologist of course, god forbids any variation on that).
OP: "I'd like to play this class, this race, with this combat style"
Average Slim Jim's reply: "Why not this other class, this other race, with this other combat style? And, of course, a dip into Savage Technologist Barbarian, doesn't matter if your character is supposed to be a lawful or neutral zen fighter in a low-tech medieval setting".
The OP asked for a:
- Human
- Slayer
- Str-based TWF build
which is a perfectly viable, synergistic and powerful build. Sure, he also asked for different options, but why not just building on that, keeping variations at a minimum, rather than suggesting always the same clone?
Regarding Piranha Strike, the bonus damage is halved for the off-hand attacks, isn't it?
(edit I misread it) yes, halved for the off hand AND it only works with light weapons, so you are locked in on double daggers rather than Longshore and Dagger or something of that kind.
Slim Jim:
Piranha Strike (Combat)
Source Sargava, the Lost Colony pg. 24 (Amazon)
You make a combination of quick strikes, sacrificing accuracy for multiple, minor wounds that prove exceptionally deadly.
Prerequisites: Weapon Finesse, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: When wielding a light weapon, you can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and for every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus on damage rolls increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before the attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage. This feat cannot be used in conjunction with the Power Attack feat.
Please stop spreading misinformation regarding this feat.
Why are you always recommending class/race/build when the OP asked for....I'm looking for some advice on a Human TWF Slayer. Generally, I'd be probably be the party "Rogue" and also damage dealer. I'm looking for pitfalls or feats that aren't worthwhile or things I'm overlooking - or what feats might be better at level 10/11+. Is there a better weapon to take? I'm trying to maintain full attacks if possible. Is there an archetype that would work out? A different race?Try this class/race/build; it'll do almost everything you listed really well!
(sigh...)
Please stop spreading misinformation regarding this feat.
Oh, please. A correction will suffice, thank you. (I was right about Risky Striker.)
~ ~ ~
Thanks SlimJim for pointing out that I missed that item description. If I were looking for a slightly less item dependent build, would I just go with kukris?
Sure. They're only -1pt damage versus the Wakizashis, and are otherwise like them in all respects (threat-range/multiplier, weapon-type, damage-type, etc).
Why are you always recommending class/race/build when the OP asked for....I'm looking for some advice on a Human TWF Slayer. Generally, I'd be probably be the party "Rogue" and also damage dealer. I'm looking for pitfalls or feats that aren't worthwhile or things I'm overlooking - or what feats might be better at level 10/11+. Is there a better weapon to take? I'm trying to maintain full attacks if possible. Is there an archetype that would work out? A different race?Try this class/race/build; it'll do almost everything you listed really well!(sigh...)
Please stop spreading misinformation regarding this feat.Oh, please. A correction will suffice, thank you. (I was right about Risky Striker.)
~ ~ ~
Thanks SlimJim for pointing out that I missed that item description. If I were looking for a slightly less item dependent build, would I just go with kukris?Sure. They're only -1pt damage versus the Wakizashis, and are otherwise like them in all respects (threat-range/multiplier, weapon-type, damage-type, etc).
One would think that it would except you have been corrected about Piranha Strike in the past. Good day.
It is entirely possible that I may also be wrong about something else in the future. --But for today, I shall be *perfect*!