you are telling that to the person who would take power attack for cleave and and never bother with power attack.....
I hate feat trees....
It seems they're working on pruning those trees... ;^)
It wouldn't be surprising if the only feats which require prerequisites of other feats are parts of archetypes (i.e. you need the dedication feat to be in the club) and feats that literally don't make sense without their prereq. Like you'd need something that costs spell points before you can take "extra spell points" or whatever it will be called.
It wouldn't be surprising if the only feats which require prerequisites of other feats are parts of archetypes (i.e. you need the dedication feat to be in the club) and feats that literally don't make sense without their prereq. Like you'd need something that costs spell points before you can take "extra spell points" or whatever it will be called.
I'd swear that was explicitly mentioned by one off the devs as a design principle at some point, but I can't remember when or which.
It wouldn't be surprising if the only feats which require prerequisites of other feats are parts of archetypes (i.e. you need the dedication feat to be in the club) and feats that literally don't make sense without their prereq. Like you'd need something that costs spell points before you can take "extra spell points" or whatever it will be called.I'd swear that was explicitly mentioned by one off the devs as a design principle at some point, but I can't remember when or which.
Yes, I remember one of the devs talking about feat trees. What it looks like is they're losing the useless entry points and focusing on making the feat trees better in general. As in, you buy one feat which unlocks another feat of the same vein but is different and cool. You can see this on the late level page of the Druid from the Paizocon Banquet:
Level 1- Wild ShapeLevel ?- ??? Shape (I can't make out this feats name. It's in the prereq of Dragon Shape.)
Level 14- Dragon Shape
Level 20- True Shapeshifter
If you want something from the Paladin that is less feat intensive, there's the Righteous Ally feat tree. We know the most about Blade Ally. *Warning flagrant guesses here*:
Level 4(?)- Blade of Justice (the first Blade Ally feat)
Level ??- Unnamed Blade Ally Feat that gives more potent runes.
Level 18(?)- Instrument of Zeal (the last Blade Ally feat)
I'm fairly certain you'll need Blade of Justice for Instrument of Zeal, but not sure about the improved Blade Ally feat. (that one may not have a prereq except Blade Ally)
Level 1- Wild Shape
Level ?- ??? Shape (I can't make out this feats name. It's in the prereq of Dragon Shape.)
Level 14- Dragon Shape
Level 20- True Shapeshifter
A bit tangential, but I'm pretty sure the ??? Shape is "Soaring Shape" which presumably is a feat that lets you Wild Shape into something with a fly speed.
But back on topic, I agree for the most part, on the concept that feat trees that build on previous feats, without being strictly required for that ability to stay relevant on its own, but I'm worried if they end up not actually going down that route. We're already seeing this with archetypes (not just with the dedication aspect, but also we can see that "Rope Runner" is required for Boarding action. But unless that feat does something wildly different than it's name suggests, it doesn't really build off that feat), and I could see them reneging a bit on that design goal, just because they don't want the same type of "dipping" issues they're worried about for archetypes, just intra-class.
We'll have to keep on top of that during the Playtest. I'm sure they'd appreciate the feedback on that specifically.
Thanks again for the "Soaring Shape"...
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I think I'll piggyback this thread as a Paladin Mechanic thread...
In regards to feat trees, I realized recently that we know about another Paladin Feat tree...
Shining Oath- This was the feat that Joe chose in the "Crypt of the Everflame Podcast". In one of my more "Duh!!" moments, it occurred to me that this was the PF2e equivalent to the Oath against Undeath archetype. Mark talked about the "Fiendsbane Oath" in the blog and Twitch stream, and mentioned that Paladins will be very good at Retributive Strike against Fiends. Shining Oath confirms that the -2 penalty of Retributive Strike will be lost against the particular creature you swore an oath against. Of course, Jason didn't mention anything about the other parts of the Feat to change the Code... Which brings me to the feat tree part. We know that Fiendsbane Paladins will also get Anchoring Aura. Which I am expecting to be another feat at later levels. (Though it could be baked into the one feat but I doubt it...) So I'm expecting the same for the Shining Oath feats. Perhaps an Oath of Life?... So what other Oaths will there be? Corruption? Savages? Or what about the popular Oath of Vengeance?
On another topic, I now believe Litanies will be a Class feature, not feat. The word ability is used for Litanies in the blog and Twitch stream, not feat. Also, Mark mentioned that Litanies will come active after a Sloth demon (or aspects of sloths) will be a challenge. (With the 50 Sloth Demons comment in the twitch stream) In 1e, these were CR 2 monsters. So level 7, level 9? It's worth mentioning that the ability means 2 more (at least) spell points for the Paladin there...