I have this concept of an "ADHD" gnome. Someone who is the worst stereo type of attention deficit hyperactivity. This would extend to everything from her style of interacting with the world "ohhh... shiny! Squirrel." to how she handles level ups (every level up is random, so she could have a wide variety of abilities and options. Some of which would have little to do with each other.
I am looking for some ideas and concepts on how to make this random character fun and random while remaining somewhat affective.
What I have so far is having her start as something like a Ranger, and from there every level up roll a d20 for the next level class. Combat will likely be based on what classes she has taken, but I love the idea of her jumping on something and randomly biting it's ear.
This is wonderful. I would advise, though, to start with something that immediately sets you up with something that will always be useful.
Like level one is Unbreakable Fighter for the survivability feats.
Or UC Rogue, or Swashy, for level one weapon finesse.
Start with Monk of Many Styles, because nothing says ADHD like multiple styles happening simultaneously.
To at least give the character a chance at being useful, group classes into the stats they depend on, and roll to see which group you will use, then stay in the group.
Ok, you will be... rolls D20... strength based. And... rolls D20... wisdom. This group has clerics, druids, Warpriest, monks, fighters, barbarians, blah blah wisdom blah. That way, ADHD or not, at least the character has a decent stat or two that most abilities in this group will use.
You could also have groups associated with specific race that offers lots of racial archetypes across a wide variety of classes.
Or a group dedicated to classes with sneak attack.
Just between STR, DEX, INT, WIS, CHA, and SNEAK ATTACK is a D6 to see which fancy stole your character's attention first.
Good ideas.
I like the master of many styles monk starting for the multiple style feats which would work with the concept as you said.
I like the idea of rolling a D6 to determine the "best stat" and from there what classes are useful.
I think I can incorporate the idea of limiting classes somewhat to make them more viable, but the idea of her taken a class that could be worthless like paladin (assuming a chaotic neutral alignment) also provides some hilarious role play potential. Imagine her saying that she is 1/5 paladin on her mother's side. Of course I seem to recall a trait, feat, or class ability that lets someone take any class regardless of alignment. Maybe it was just some 3PP thing. I can not remember.
Enlightened Warrior is a trait to allow neutral Aasimar monks.
That might be what you are thinking about.
Roll for random styles if you go MoMS.
Are you going to keep stacking saves? Might be this character's strong point, if you do.
Give a decent point buy, for well rounded stats...
12, 14, 14, 13, 14, 14 (after Gnome racials) 25pt buy in, just as an example. No dumps or negatives, nothing special, though, either. Perfect for a little bit of everything.
Might want to make a list of every class with a Gnome specific archetype, too.
I don't think you are likely to make a viable character with that method.
I also think it is a bit 'out of character' to take a character who doesn't focus on one thing, and apply that character trait to what is more a player choice than a character choice: what class to choose.
By that I mean while a player can choose what class a character will take, for many classes the character can't. A player can choose to take a level in Oracle, but the character can't, either the ineffable being that choose Oracles choose them or don't.
You can though use this to your advantage. Taking away several classes as options, such as Sorcerers and Oracles for that reason, and others such as Clerics and Wizards that require quite a bit of training though, and then you can end up with a more manageable list and a list that will be complementary enough to create an effective character, things like full martials and maybe rogue that you can use randomly but still won't end up with a crippled character.
VoodistMonk : I think you are right about your enlightened warrior trait. I thought there was something better, but it was probably a homeruled thing I read somewhere. Random role for styles is perfect. I think your point about modest scores is probably right here. I think I might make a list of fitting archetypes even if not gnome specific.
Dave Justus : If this character made it to 20th level, she would probably have at least 15 different classes with the vast majority being no more than level 1. It wouldn't be truly viable in the best case. You are right that applying any specific character trait doesn't fit the character. I think a system to randomly choose them is in order. That is a fair point about the limiting factors on certain classes. Specifically most arcane and divine casters would probably be out of the running. I think Alchemist would still be available though.
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Alchemist seems to me to require as much extensive study and training as a wizard, but it is up to you.
Personally, I think unless you really constrain your randomness so that it creates a viable character it is likely that it won't. That would be true even if you planned on playing it as best you could, which it appears you don't (randomly trying to bite an ear isn't going to be effective unless you build for it, with dirty trick or something similar.)
I'd question why any party would want this character to adventure with them, and if the only answer is that the characters will let you join their party because their players want to be nice to you, then you as a player are not being very nice to them. Of course you know your fellow gamers better, and if they are good with dead weight comic relief in the party then more power to you. Add in the NPC classes as choices to make it truly awful. Maybe make it a child character as well.
Appreciate the insight Dave. In this case my group would love this character whether completely viable or not. I am just looking for ideas to make it slightly more realistic without pigeon holing it by trying to make it into something.
Love the idea to add NPC classes.
I could see a martial approach being reasonable. That's not to say you should only take full BAB classes, the Medium's champion spirit and the Alchmeist's mutagen would come in handy. You'd have to watch your actions when buffing and your pools would be pretty shallow, but Swash/Barb/Alc/Fighter/Slayer/ranger/medium/brawler/cavalier/bloodrager/ (martial PrC here) has potential with the right archetypes.
Haywire : between your and Voodist Monk's statements, I think it would be a good idea to come up with the most fitting archetypes for each class for such a character.
Obviously racial were possible, but even outside of those some archetypes just fit the idea of a little character who is doing anything she sees as cool or stylish without concern for it's actual value. Like Titan Mauler Barbarian, Viking Fighter, etc.
The main ones I were thinking of is altering the rages to potentially stack, as well as using Urban Barb/bloodrager if going Dex-Based (you won't be able to use heavy armour with all your stuff, and taking Inspired Blade as swashbuckler practically hands you Fencing Grace)
Alchemist, Vivisectionist (sneak attack)
Barbarian, Urban Barbarian (dex rage)
Bard, Archeologist (luck bonus)
Brawler, Wild Child (animal companion and martial flexibility)
Cavalier, Daring Champion (Weapon Finesse with one handed piercing weapons)
Cleric, Crusader (bonus feat)
Druid, Nature's Fang (studied target)
Fighter, Unbreakable (endurance and die hard)
Gunslinger, Bolt Ace (masterwork crossbow)
Monk, Sohei (act in surprise round)
Paladin, Divine Hunter (precise shot)
Ranger, Hooded Champion (panache, deeds)
UC Rogue, Waylayer (sneak attack, never flat footed)
Slayer, Sniper (accuracy ex.)
Swashbuckler, Inspired Blade (more panache)
That's a quick list to get you started.
Pretty sure the Bolt Ace Gunslinger and Hooded Champion Ranger stuff works together. The Sohei Monk and Waylayer Rogue stuff compliments each other well. Pick a deity with the weapon you want to use, and you can get weapon focus as the bonus feat from Crusader Cleric. The crusaders flurry feat let's you use your deity's favored weapon in the Sohei monk's flurry of blows... Uaransaph is a NE daemon harbinger with the repeating crossbow as the favored weapon, if such a thing interests you.
You could be a completely neutral, very confused Gnome running around, sniping with an endless ammunition repeating crossbow that you can flurry of blows with.
Just as one quick example of where this could go, but the options are many.
Using the suggestions made, I have come up with this system.
25 Point Buy
STATS
Str 12
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 14
Chr 14
10 Classes To choose from :
1) Sorcerer : CrossBlooded
- Bloodlines
- Fey
- Impossible
- The basis of her random personality
2) Fighter : Free Style Fighter
- Saw a fighter wanted to learn to fight, couldn’t commit to any one style of fighting
3) Barbarian : Mad Dog
- love that she would never actually get rage unless she somehow made it to 4th level
- Cycling cast of animal companions ranging from a timid Rhinoceros to a rabid Llama
4) Unchained Rogue : Phantom Thief
- Fell in love with the idea of being a thief and being able to hide it in public behind a fancy facade
5) Monk : Master of Many Styles
- Wanted to learn Kung Fu. Still couldn’t commit to any one style of fighting
6) Gunslinger : Gun Scavenger
- Guns are shiny and they go boom
- Gun Scavenger fits someone so capricious
7) Ninja
- It’s a ninja, what is not cool about that
- Go back to the first point about ninja
8) Samurai : Yojimbo
- Order : Ronnin
- Always picks the strongest most physically capable person in a group to declare as her ward
9) Slayer : Sniper
- one shot, one kill …. rarely ever actually works for her.
10) Swashbuckler : Mouser
- She is short, it just makes sense.
The only class I would choose is sorcerer at 1st level. The interplay of her fey and impossible influences has given her the random mindset.
I did a test role to level 10 and it came out this way:
1) Sorcerer
2) Unchained Rogue
3) Sorcerer
4) Ninja
5) Unchained Rogue
6) Slayer
7) Barbarian
8) Monk
9) Unchained Rogue
10) Gunslinger
Feat wize she will go twords two weapon fighting with wakizashi and pistol. She will also get a few magic boosting feats as well. Other than that whatever lets her do something "cool".
Since the character will most likely be Chaotic in alignment you may have to drop monk from the equation since they have to be lawful. That being said, you could probably substitute in brawler and have the character believe they are a "monk" and story wise they might of even trained at a monastery.
Also, if you limited the list to say just six classes, but made sure that those classes represent 10+ classes it will give the feel of chaos without giving up actual effectiveness.
For example, brawler (Exemplar) gets bardic performances. That means this one class = Fighter, Monk and Bard. The hybrid classes are already a mix of two different classes so they are probably a good place to start. You could assign each class on your list to a stat and so when you roll the D6 to see what you advance as next it's because this time the gnome has decided to focus on..... charisma(for example).
Good call on the class alignment for Monk. I had forgotten to take that into account with all of my other planning.
You are correct about being chaotic.
It's an interesting proposition to have a class per stat. I could bring it down to six. There are several I do not need. Ninja and Rogue both being there is somewhat redundant for instance.
She has a BAB of +3 at level 10... TWF penalties will ensure she never lands a hit.
She is either in light armor, eating the arcane caster penalty, or no armor, right?
Besides comic relief, what does she offer the party?
Random number generator picked from the list in my previous post...
1. Fighter, Unbreakable
.. Endurance
.. Die Hard
1. Feat:
2. UC Rogue, Waylayer
.. Sneak Attack 1D6
.. Never flat-footed
3. Cavalier, Daring Champion
.. Weapon Finesse w/ one-handed piercing weapons
3. Feat:
4. Brawler, Wild Child
.. Martial Flexibility
.. Animal Companion
5. Alchemist, Vivisectionist
.. Sneak Attack 2D6
.. Mutagen
5. Feat:
6. Swashbuckler, Inspired Blade
.. Panache
.. Deeds
7. Barbarian, Urban Barbarian
.. Dex rage
7. Feat:
8. Paladin, Divine Hunter
.. Precise Shot
9. Ranger, Hooded Champion
.. Panache
.. Deeds
9. Feat:
10. Druid, Nature's Fang
.. Studied Target
BAB +6 @ level 10... 2D6 sneak attack damage, weapon finesse, panache and deeds that work with piercing melee weapons and bows, Dex rage and a Mutagen, an animal companion, martial flexibility, and studied target...
Just as confused, just as random, just way more useful.
You make a compelling case. I shall take that into consideration as well.
I'm grateful for all the insight and suggestions so far.
I am still liking the idea of swapping out classes, though I do have to define it such that I do not wind up as a detriment to the party, but I certainly want to incorporate some of these ideas into how she acts. Thank you!
The contribution issue is why, of the classes I suggested, only two are not Full BAB, and thoes two have their own attack/damage boosts.
I must be missing where you suggested classes. I saw the universal solvent story, but that is it.
Thank you for the explanation. I was unaware of that distinction.
So I had to turn down the randomness to achieve utility, but I am trying to take into account all of the appreciated suggestions. I realized that even if I was ok with giving up some viability for character and even if my team mates would care. It is at least unfair to affect the APL without being able to contribute in some way. Went straight Marshal, Light Armor, Two Weapon Fighting will still be the focus
With that said I came up with 6 classes, each tied to a stat and intended to work together as has been suggested. The idea here is gun and sword with animal companion :
Str Brawler : Wild Child
- Animal Companion
- Martial Flexibility
Dex Unchained Rogues : Phantom Thief
- Dex to attack and damage
- Sneak Attack
Con Barbarian : Savage Technologist
- Dex Rage
- No AoO for firearm while raging
Int Slayer : Sniper
- Studied Target
- Firearm sneak attack
Wis Gunslinger : Experimental Gunsmith
- Experimental Gun
Chr Swashbuckler : Picaroon
- Gunsmith
- Two Weapon Fighting for gun and weapon
The only thing I want to figure out how to to work in might be some form of alchemist.
Someone I would like you to meet:
She is 3'3" tall, 33#, and has vivid red hair flowing past her waist with the left side of her head shaved above the ear and a beaded braid she plays with when she is nervous or concentrating.
Fijit
12,14,14,14,14,14
Dirty Trickster replaces Defensive Training, Hatred, and Keen Senses
Faerie Dragon Magic replaces Gnome Magic
Fey Thoughts replaces Weapon Familiarity
Fey Magic replaces Obsessive
Drawback
.. Anxious
Traits
.. Adopted (halfling): Helpful
.. Prankster
.. Reactionary
1. Fighter, Unbreakable
.. Endurance
.. Die Hard
1. Feat: Improved Dirty Trick
2. UC Rogue, Waylayer
.. Sneak Attack 1D6
.. Never flat-footed
3. Cavalier, Daring Champion
.. Weapon Finesse w/ one-handed piercing weapons
3. Feat: Dirty Fighting
4. Brawler, Wild Child
.. Martial Flexibility
.. Animal Companion (something to use as a mount)
5. Alchemist, Vivisectionist
.. Sneak Attack 2D6
.. Mutagen
5. Feat: Combat Reflexes
6. Swashbuckler, Inspired Blade
.. Panache
.. Deeds
7. Barbarian, Urban Barbarian
.. Dex rage
7. Feat: Extra Rage or Bodyguard, your choice
8. Paladin, Divine Hunter
.. Precise Shot
9. Ranger, Hooded Champion
.. Panache
.. Deeds
9. Feat: Greater Dirty Trick
10. Druid, Nature's Fang
.. Studied Target
Fijit focuses on providing valuable assistant to her teammates via Aid Another both in and out of combat. She is mischievous and cunning and never fights fair. In fact, she specializes in groin kicks and throwing sand in her opponents eyes. She has limited magical abilities from a heritage she doesn't understand, because she was raised by halflings. Because of being adopted, she has struggled to find her place in life. At level 11, Fijit takes Swift Aid, and Quick Dirty Trick at level 13, working towards Dirty Trick Master whenever she qualifies.
If Fijit stays with Nature's Fang Druid at level 10... having finally found her place in life, she gets Slayer Talents, another 1D6 sneak attack damage at level 13, and would get 5th level spells, with a 6th level spell at level 20.
She continues her Dirty Trick Mastery and Swift Aid feats, using Martial Flexibility and Slayer Talents/ranger combat style feats, along with studied target and sneak attack to be decent in combat when her Dirty tricks do not work.
Due to alignment issues with barbarian and Paladin, I have switched the divine Hunter Paladin for maneuver master monk. It makes sense, I promise.
Fijit
Gnome, female
12,14,14,14,14,14
Dirty Trickster replaces Defensive Training, Hatred, and Keen Senses
.. +2 racial bonus to dirty tricks
Faerie Dragon Magic replaces Gnome Magic
.. 1/day: Ghost Sound, Grease, Silent Image
Fey Thoughts replaces Weapon Familiarity
.. Acrobatics & Perception
Fey Magic replaces Obsessive
.. 1/day (forest): Snowball, Create Water, Purify Food/Water, Spark
Alignment: Neutral
Drawback
.. Anxious, -2 Diplomacy, soft spoken
Traits
.. Adopted, (Halfling): Helpful
.. Prankster, +1 trait bonus to dirty & +1rnd duration
.. Enlightened Warrior, neutral monk
1. Fighter, Unbreakable
.. Endurance
.. Die Hard
1. Feat: Improved Dirty Trick
Saves +2 +0 +0
BAB +1
2. UC Rogue, Waylayer
.. Sneak Attack 1D6
.. Never flat-footed
Saves +2 +2 +0
BAB +1
For the first two levels Fijit focuses on Aid Another, and Dirty Tricks, she never goes a day in combat without using her 1/day Grease SLA. Normally soft spoken, but not at all timid, she wears chainmail and carries a rapier. She uses Intimidate in combat to further debuff her enemies.
3. Cavalier, Daring Champion
.. Weapon Finesse w/ one-handed piercing weapons
.. Challenge 1/day
.. Order of the Asp
.. Tactician: Precise Strikes, share with allies 1/day
3. Feat: Dirty Fighting
Saves +4 +2 +0
BAB +2
Fijit now can afford to enchant her rapier with Agile, possibly Valiant as well. She works her challenge into combat where she used to use intimidation, and she focused more on flanking than before. Still using dirty tricks and her Grease SLA whenever possible.
4. Brawler, Wild Child
.. Improved Unarmed Strike
.. Martial Flexibility
.. Animal Companion (something to use as a mount)
Saves +6 +4 +0
BAB +3
Stat: Wisdom +1
She picks up a companion to use a mount, something that can fly would benefit her a lot. Martial Flexibility lets Fijit cherry pick combat feats, which she most often uses to pick up Bodyguard or Weapon Trick. Her tactics still revolve around Aid Another, dirty tricks, and flanking. Never forgetting to use her Grease SLA or her challenge. She is getting better at using her teamwork feat sharing ability, too. She can tell that her compulsive nature has left her with a weak will save and puts her stat increase into wisdom.
5. Alchemist, Vivisectionist
.. Sneak Attack 2D6
.. Mutagen
.. Throw Anything
5. Feat: Combat Reflexes
Saves +8 +6 +0
BAB +3
Fijit dabbles in Alchemy, acquiring a Mutagen to increase her dexterity. She is even better at flanking and using her precision damage. She is still focusing on Aid , whenever possible. Still using her Grease SLA and dirty tricks. She saves her Mutagen for scary fights, relying on her Challenge and tricks to carry her through most encounters. She still mostly used Martial Flexibility for Bodyguard and Weapon Trick.
6. Swashbuckler, Inspired Blade
.. Weapon Focus Rapier
.. Panache = Charisma modifier & Intelligence modifier
.. Deeds: derring-do, dodging panache, parry and reposte
Saves +8 +8 +0
BAB +4
Fijit has figured out her rapier with a new degree of confidence. She has enchanted her rapier with Agile, Valiant, and Confounding. Her tactics remain unchanged as she learns how to use her new abilities. She is wearing a Mithral Breastplate now, though.
7. Barbarian, Urban Barbarian
.. Dex rage
7. Feat: Extra Rage
Saves +10 +8 +0
BAB +5
Fijit discovers how to harness her inner turmoil and use it to fuel her prowess in ways she never that possible. She can rage, increasing her dexterity rather than strength. Immediately realizing how important this could be, she spends the feat for additional rounds of rage. Like her Mutagen, she saves her rage for scary fights. The rest of her tactics are unchanged.
8. Monk, Maneuver Master
.. Flurry of Maneuvers
.. Dodge
.. Improved Unarmed Strike (retrain to Iron Will)
.. AC Bonus
.. Stunning Fist 2/day
Saves +12 +10 +0
BAB +6
Stat: Wisdom +1
Fijit relieves herself of the burden of armor. She has learned how to combine her dirty tricks with her full attacks, and armor just slows her down. Fijit still uses the same tactics as before, now just more effectively incorporating her dirty tricks into attacks. She still uses Aid Another and her Grease SLA whenever possible. She saves her Mutagen, rage, and stunning fist for the scary fights. Fijit adds another enchantment to her rapier, it now has Agile, Valiant, Confounding, and Furious. Knowing her own weaknesses, she puts the stat increase into wisdom.
9. Ranger, Hooded Champion
.. Panache with bows
.. Deeds: deadly aim
9. Feat: Greater Dirty Trick
Saves +14 +12 +0
BAB +7
Branching out, yet again, Fijit picks up a bow to expand her versatility. She is still much more focused on her dirty tricks, but she learns to apply some of her Swashbuckler tricks to the bow. Both her Mutagen and her rage can benefit the bow, and she feels comfortable with martial flexibility providing her with what she needs to make it work. Overall her role and tactics do not change.
10. Druid, Nature's Fang
.. Nature Bond
.. Studied Target +1
.. Orisons
Saves +16 +12 +2
BAB +7
Fijit felt liberated since giving up her armor. She also felt at ease with the nature aspects of her short lived Ranger career. Something about the magic she has always had but never understood is tying her to nature. She is curious to gain control of her magic and see if there's more. As she progresses and learns more magic, she focuses on healing spells and battlefield control spells to be as helpful as possible. Using her slayer talents to gain access to the Menacing ranger combat style feats, and the rogue talents giving her the vanishing ninja trick/Ki Pool to support it. She uses her studied target as often as she can, still spams Aid Another, saves her Mutagen, rage, and stunning fist for the scary fights. The rest of her build could look like this:
11. Nature's Fang 2
11. Feat: Quick Dirty Trick
11. Stunning Fist 3/day
Saves +17 +12 +3
BAB +8
12. Nature's Fang 3
12. Trackless Step
Saves +17 +13 +3
BAB +9
Stat: Wisdom +1
13. Nature's Fang 4
13. Sneak Attack 3D6
13. Slayer Talent: Rogue Talent: Ki Pool
13. Feat: Swift Aid
Saves +18 +13 +4
BAB +10
14. Nature's Fang 5
14. Studied Target +2
Saves +18 +13 +4
BAB +10
15. Nature's Fang 6
15. Slayer Talent: Ranger Combat Style: Shatter Defenses
15. Feat: Dirty Trick Master
15. Stunning Fist 4/day
Saves +19 +14 +5
BAB +11
16. Nature's Fang 7
Saves +19 +14 +5
BAB +12
Stat: Wisdom +1
17. Nature's Fang 8
17. Slayer Talent: Rogue Talent: Ninja Trick: Vanish
17. Feat: Improved Iron Will
Saves +20 +14 +6
BAB +13
18. Nature's Fang 9
18. Swift Studied Target
Saves +20 +15 +6
BAB +13
19. Nature's Fang 10
19. Studied Target +3
19. Slayer Talent: Ranger Combat Style: Improved Critical
19. Feat: Extra Ki or Extra Panache
19. Stunning Fist 5/day
Saves +21 +15 +7
BAB +14
20. Nature's Fang 11
Saves +21 +15 +7
BAB +15
Stat: Wisdom +1
That is a really cool build. The story plays out nicely as well.
I am going for something a little more random. Well honestly I wanted to make the whole thing random as all get out, but after hearing everyones points, a certain limitation seems necessary to facilitate utility. Still I want the random nature to play through as well.
I think I have more or less settle on what I will do with the character.
I do hope you get the chance to use fijit some day.