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Trying to figure out if there is a good reason that the Inspired weapon enchantment is limited only to simple weapons, hand crossbows, rapiers, shortbows, short swords, and sword canes?

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abi lities/inspired/

Any thoughts on why this should be enforced at a table?

Dave Justus wrote:
I doubt that 5 years later this is still an issue.

Maybe they spent 5 years waiting for that one perfect answer...

I have a game where i am co-GM with another. It is sad that we both know the over arcing story but we each make seperate dungeons for our playera when we GM the other gets to play for real. So far it has worked for us. The way we handle it is that our characters are front line fighting types. Meat heads more or less that do one thing. It makes it easy to keep them in character that way.

Kinda sounds homebrewed. Most traits that increase caster level do so by 1. It is mostly accepted that a feat is about double a trait in power, meaning that a trait would be expected to have a +2 to a specific spell. That being the case +5 is likley either house ruled or a 3PP. I do not know as much about spell caster feats, so I am more than willing to be proven wrong.

The only one I can think of that has 5 is Intisified Spell which increases max damage dice by 5, but that is obviously not what you were asking about.

It was a very generous roll system implemented by the other GM. After racial bonuses This player ended up with

Str 11
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 16
Chr 20

Dragadin and Swashigator... I will be laughing these names all day, but I am putting them on the list as potentials.

Once again appreciate everyone's input.

Answering a couple of questions. I am not the Main GM, Myself and the main swap out so that each gets a chance to play a character through adventures without knowing everything.

Yes the Warpriest is mostly martial. It's actually my character for when the other GM runs things, and largely a meat shield when I run things.

Charisma is the guys highest stat, though his other mental stats are nothing to sneeze at. In general his physical stats are all just above 10. That said Charisma is what he seems most concerned with.

Rest of the party :

Two Handed Fighter
War Priest
Duettist Bard
Life Mystery Oracle
Divine Marksman Ranger

Appreciate the ideas so far everyone. Gives me some food for thought.

I have a player who wants to make a silver tongued character. He wants to be a bit of a skills monkey, but mainly wants to talk his way out of stuff.

In addition he does not want to be a straight caster class. He was sorcerer and is not liking it. He is only level 3 but doesnt want to go on with it. Please no "Just tell him to tough it out" responses. I have already told him how powerful, useful, full covering his spells will be come, and he doesn't care.

I am looking for suggestions

That is a really cool build. The story plays out nicely as well.

I am going for something a little more random. Well honestly I wanted to make the whole thing random as all get out, but after hearing everyones points, a certain limitation seems necessary to facilitate utility. Still I want the random nature to play through as well.

I think I have more or less settle on what I will do with the character.

I do hope you get the chance to use fijit some day.

So I had to turn down the randomness to achieve utility, but I am trying to take into account all of the appreciated suggestions. I realized that even if I was ok with giving up some viability for character and even if my team mates would care. It is at least unfair to affect the APL without being able to contribute in some way. Went straight Marshal, Light Armor, Two Weapon Fighting will still be the focus

With that said I came up with 6 classes, each tied to a stat and intended to work together as has been suggested. The idea here is gun and sword with animal companion :

Str Brawler : Wild Child
- Animal Companion
- Martial Flexibility
Dex Unchained Rogues : Phantom Thief
- Dex to attack and damage
- Sneak Attack
Con Barbarian : Savage Technologist
- Dex Rage
- No AoO for firearm while raging
Int Slayer : Sniper
- Studied Target
- Firearm sneak attack
Wis Gunslinger : Experimental Gunsmith
- Experimental Gun
Chr Swashbuckler : Picaroon
- Gunsmith
- Two Weapon Fighting for gun and weapon

The only thing I want to figure out how to to work in might be some form of alchemist.

Thank you for the explanation. I was unaware of that distinction.

The Sideromancer wrote:
The contribution issue is why, of the classes I suggested, only two are not Full BAB, and thoes two have their own attack/damage boosts.

I must be missing where you suggested classes. I saw the universal solvent story, but that is it.

I am still liking the idea of swapping out classes, though I do have to define it such that I do not wind up as a detriment to the party, but I certainly want to incorporate some of these ideas into how she acts. Thank you!

You make a compelling case. I shall take that into consideration as well.

I'm grateful for all the insight and suggestions so far.

Good call on the class alignment for Monk. I had forgotten to take that into account with all of my other planning.

You are correct about being chaotic.

It's an interesting proposition to have a class per stat. I could bring it down to six. There are several I do not need. Ninja and Rogue both being there is somewhat redundant for instance.

Using the suggestions made, I have come up with this system.

25 Point Buy

Str 12
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 14
Chr 14

10 Classes To choose from :
1) Sorcerer : CrossBlooded
- Bloodlines
- Fey
- Impossible
- The basis of her random personality

2) Fighter : Free Style Fighter
- Saw a fighter wanted to learn to fight, couldn’t commit to any one style of fighting

3) Barbarian : Mad Dog
- love that she would never actually get rage unless she somehow made it to 4th level
- Cycling cast of animal companions ranging from a timid Rhinoceros to a rabid Llama

4) Unchained Rogue : Phantom Thief
- Fell in love with the idea of being a thief and being able to hide it in public behind a fancy facade

5) Monk : Master of Many Styles
- Wanted to learn Kung Fu. Still couldn’t commit to any one style of fighting

6) Gunslinger : Gun Scavenger
- Guns are shiny and they go boom
- Gun Scavenger fits someone so capricious

7) Ninja
- It’s a ninja, what is not cool about that
- Go back to the first point about ninja

8) Samurai : Yojimbo
- Order : Ronnin
- Always picks the strongest most physically capable person in a group to declare as her ward

9) Slayer : Sniper
- one shot, one kill …. rarely ever actually works for her.

10) Swashbuckler : Mouser
- She is short, it just makes sense.

The only class I would choose is sorcerer at 1st level. The interplay of her fey and impossible influences has given her the random mindset.

I did a test role to level 10 and it came out this way:

1) Sorcerer
2) Unchained Rogue
3) Sorcerer
4) Ninja
5) Unchained Rogue
6) Slayer
7) Barbarian
8) Monk
9) Unchained Rogue
10) Gunslinger

Feat wize she will go twords two weapon fighting with wakizashi and pistol. She will also get a few magic boosting feats as well. Other than that whatever lets her do something "cool".

Haywire : between your and Voodist Monk's statements, I think it would be a good idea to come up with the most fitting archetypes for each class for such a character.

Obviously racial were possible, but even outside of those some archetypes just fit the idea of a little character who is doing anything she sees as cool or stylish without concern for it's actual value. Like Titan Mauler Barbarian, Viking Fighter, etc.

Appreciate the insight Dave. In this case my group would love this character whether completely viable or not. I am just looking for ideas to make it slightly more realistic without pigeon holing it by trying to make it into something.

Love the idea to add NPC classes.

VoodistMonk : I think you are right about your enlightened warrior trait. I thought there was something better, but it was probably a homeruled thing I read somewhere. Random role for styles is perfect. I think your point about modest scores is probably right here. I think I might make a list of fitting archetypes even if not gnome specific.

Dave Justus : If this character made it to 20th level, she would probably have at least 15 different classes with the vast majority being no more than level 1. It wouldn't be truly viable in the best case. You are right that applying any specific character trait doesn't fit the character. I think a system to randomly choose them is in order. That is a fair point about the limiting factors on certain classes. Specifically most arcane and divine casters would probably be out of the running. I think Alchemist would still be available though.

Good ideas.

I like the master of many styles monk starting for the multiple style feats which would work with the concept as you said.

I like the idea of rolling a D6 to determine the "best stat" and from there what classes are useful.

I think I can incorporate the idea of limiting classes somewhat to make them more viable, but the idea of her taken a class that could be worthless like paladin (assuming a chaotic neutral alignment) also provides some hilarious role play potential. Imagine her saying that she is 1/5 paladin on her mother's side. Of course I seem to recall a trait, feat, or class ability that lets someone take any class regardless of alignment. Maybe it was just some 3PP thing. I can not remember.

I have this concept of an "ADHD" gnome. Someone who is the worst stereo type of attention deficit hyperactivity. This would extend to everything from her style of interacting with the world "ohhh... shiny! Squirrel." to how she handles level ups (every level up is random, so she could have a wide variety of abilities and options. Some of which would have little to do with each other.

I am looking for some ideas and concepts on how to make this random character fun and random while remaining somewhat affective.

What I have so far is having her start as something like a Ranger, and from there every level up roll a d20 for the next level class. Combat will likely be based on what classes she has taken, but I love the idea of her jumping on something and randomly biting it's ear.

You're welcome.

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I see two sides to this:

On the one hand you might not get anything you do not ask for, but on the other hand by not asking for anything you might get more than you would have asked for.

If it was me I would ask for nothing more than what was needed to save them. I'm a hopeless optimist like that. If I make a list and they grant it all, I have my reward and that is all I would ever get. If I do not ask for anything, I have many favors I can get in the future. To me that has greater value. Really which option is better depends on what type of person your GM is.

I would also be worried if this is one of those too good to be true moments were everything you ask for you get, but it all comes back to haunt you.

I think a kitsune is a trickster fox that uses illusion magic. Seems like an slightly underhanded manipulative personality would be right. Viewing others as less than you could be a part of that too.

avr wrote:
Drunken ki isn't quite unlimited. Under alcohol's listing as a drug, ' In general, a character can consume a number of alcoholic beverages equal to 1 plus double his Constitution modifier before being sickened for 1 hour equal to the number of drinks above this maximum.' While that's not absolutely clear (I think it's sickened for a number of hours = number of drinks over the limit) there are obviously problems with trying to abuse alcohol.

I wonder what the time frame for number of drinks is. I assume daily. If that is the case and the con acore is 14 then they could drink 5 times a day for 2 ki each time. If it us sinply 5 times leriod before you get addicted then it wouldnt be worth it.

I think if you rearrange your stats a bit and take drunke master instead of Hungry Ghost, you will find yourself more Ki readily available.

I was thinking that because you want to prioritize your Ki powers like Scorching Ray and Dragons Breath, you do not need to worry about Str as much. Because you are going to get weapon finesse, you could take from str and go more into dex and con. With the Deep Drinker feat added in, you can get 2 ki points for each time you drink.

With a Con 14 or over and the monks great fort saves, you can drink several times without risk, and getting the Life leach Ki power will still net you Ki when you kill something, so the only thing you would lose is the on critical, but I think you will get more consistent ki from drinking than critical hits.

Small changes but this could work:

25 pt buy

Str: 10 

Dex: 17 (15+2) 

Con: 14 

Int: 8 

Wis: 16 

Cha: 14
Brawler 1/Swashbuckler 1/Drunken Master-Qinggong Monk X

Feats & Relevant Abilities
1- (Brawler 1) B: Waveblade prof.(close weapon), Weapon Focus: Waveblade, Martial Flex. 

2- (Monk 1) B: Improved Unarmed, B: Dodge, B: Punishing Kick 

3- (Monk 2) B: Deflect Arrows, Extra Martial Flexibility 

4- (Monk 3) +1 Dex 

5- (Monk 4) Extra Ki, Scorching Ray Ki Power 

6- (Swashbuckler 1) B: Weapon Finesse, Parry and Riposte 

7- (Monk 5) Feat?, Hydraulic Push/Barkskin Ki Power? 

8- (Monk 6) +1 Con, B: Mobility 

11 Deep Drinker
14- (Monk 12) Dragon’s Breath Ki Power
Pools @ 7th lvl, Martial Flexibility 6/day, Panache 2/day, Ki Pool 7/day 
Abilities to use: Parry and Riposte, Scorching Ray, Barkskin/Hydraulic Push, Punishing Kick

Put agility on your waveblade, and you probably wouldn't have much issue.

A little Excel Magic :

0-Level Shaman Spells
Spell Name
Arcane Mark
Dancing Lights
Know Direction
Touch of Fatigue

1st-Level Shaman Spells
Burning Hands
Calm Animals
Charm Animal
Charm Person
Cheetah's Sprint
Chill Touch
Dancing Darkness
Darting Duplicate
Detect Animals or Plants
Discern Next of Kin
Endothermic Touch
Gentle Breeze
Heightened Awareness
Hex Vulnerability
Hex Ward
Hide from Animals
Hydraulic Push
Itching Curse
Linked Legacy
Monkey Fish
Nature's Paths
Pass without Trace
Produce Flame
Sense Spirit Magic
Spirit Call
Stone Shield
Summon Nature's Ally I
Thorn Javelin
Underbrush Decoy
Wave Shield

2nd-Level Shaman Spells
Spell Name
Alpha Instinct
Alter Self
Animal Messenger
Animal Purpose Training
Aquatic Cavalry
Burdened Thoughts
Burning Gaze
Commune with Birds
Dream Shield
Eagle Eye
False Life
Flame Blade
Focused Scrutiny
Fog Cloud
Fool's Gold
Garrulous Grin
Insect Scouts
Languid Venom
Merge with Familiar
Quick Change
Raven's Flight
Scale Spikes
Secret Speech
Shared Sacrifice
Shield Companion
Sickening Entanglement
Splinter Spell Resistance
Spore Burst
Summon Nature's Ally II
Summon Swarm
Tree Shape
Vine Strike
Warp Wood
Wild Instinct
Winter Grasp
Wood Shape

3rd-Level Shaman Spells
Spell Name
Akashic Communion
Anchored Step
Assume Appearance
Call Lightning
Clear Grove
Deep Slumber
Dominate Animal
Earth Tremor
Fey Form I
Fins to Feet
Font of Spirit Magic
Hex Glyph
Hollow Blades
Jealous Rage
Mindlocked Messenger
Motes of Dusk And Dawn
Nauseating Trail
Pierce Disguise
Pocketful of Vipers
Polymorph Familiar
Quell Energy
Scale Spikes, Greater
Signs of the Land
Sleet Storm
Soothing Mud
Stench of Prey
Stinking Cloud
Stricken Heart
Summon Nature's Ally III
Thorny Entanglement

4th-Level Shaman Spells
Spell Name
Aerial Tracks
Animal Ambassador
Assume Appearance, Greater
Ball Lightning
Bloody Arrows
Claim Identity
Command Plants
Contingent Venom
Curse of Burning Sleep
Detect Scrying
Earth Glide
False Life, Greater
Familiar Melding
Forest's Sense
Guardian Monument, Lesser
Ice Storm
Innocuous Shape
Life Blast
Masochistic Shadow
Phantasmal Reminder
Rain of Frogs
Slowing Mud
Solid Fog
Spike Stones
Summon Nature's Ally IV
They Know
Thorn Body
Vicarious View
Vigilant Rest
Wandering Star Motes
Watchful Animal

5th-Level Shaman Spells
Spell Name
Animal Growth
Baleful Polymorph
Banishing Blade
Bind Sage
Callback, Greater
Call Lightning Storm
Cave Fangs
Charm Person, Mass
Commune with Nature
Companion Transposition
Control Winds
Dominate Person
Empathy Conduit
Entice Fey, Lesser
Feast on Fear
Fey Form II
Grove of Respite
Hex Glyph, Greater
Hunter's Blessing
Imbue Hex
Mask From Divination
Overland Flight
Release The Hounds
Summon Nature's Ally V
Swallow Poison
Tidal Surge
Vengeful Stinger
Wall of Fire
Wall of Thorns

6th-Level Shaman Spells
Spell Name
Baleful Shadow Transmutation
Claim Identity, Greater
Cone of Cold
Fey Form III
Fire Seeds
Flesh to Stone
Green Caress
Reincarnate Spy
Shadow Transmutation
Stone to Flesh
Summon Nature's Ally VI

7th-Level Shaman Spells
Spell Name
Animate Plants
Cloak of Dreams
Creeping Doom
Entice Fey
Fairy Ring Retreat
Ice Body
Legendary Proportions
Stone Tell
Summon Nature's Ally VII
Transport via Plants
Verminous Transformation

8th-Level Shaman Spells
Spell Name
Animal Shapes
Blood Mist
Fey Form IV
Horrid Wilting
Irresistible Dance
Magic Army
Summon Nature's Ally VIII

9th-Level Shaman Spells
Spell Name
Curse of Fell Seasons
Elemental Swarm
Entice Fey, Greater
Shadow Transmutation, Greater
Summon Nature's Ally IX
Wail of the Banshee

It's an old thread, but because people keep posting in it, I'll say I think warpriest is the way to go (as stated by doomed hero) to get some of the options that people mentioned.

Something like this

Race : Human
Class : Arsenal Champion War Priest of Mordiggian (Maybe refer to them as Chimichanga or Chimi for short)

Weapon Training
1st - Heavy Blades
2nd - Firearms
3rd - Advanced - Effortless Dual Wielding
4th - Advanced - Weapon Mastery - Finesse Shot

Scimitar x2
Pistol x 2

Traits : Adopted - Ugly Swine
Spider Silk Bodysuit (Dyed red and black)

Feats :
H Exotic Weapons Proficiency (Firearms)
1 Weapon Focus Pistol
1 Weapon Focus Scimitar (from war priest)
Feats every odd level
Bonus Feats starting at 3rd level and every 3 levels after

Casting healing spells on self as swift action
Get a ring of regeneration

That is on you

Also on you

Floppy Toast wrote:

Also, Swashbuckler is Dex/Cha based, right?

And Core Monk is Wis/Dex/Strength based.
This might be a problem, as you are dependent on five stats.
I don't know if Core Monk can use the Scaled Fist archetype but if you can, Scaled Fist is dependent on Cha instead of Wis.

Yes Scaled Fist can be taken by vanilla monk but it isn't compatible with drunken master.

Floppy Toast wrote:

I mean, you could take Hamatulatsu (Might be misspelled) and Improved Critical.

Your Crit Range still won't be the greatest, but your Unarmed Strikes will deal Piercing Damage, and if you make enough attacks, you're bound to Crit sometime, right?

That is true. Though isn't that type of monk campaign specific, or maybe it had some other limiting factor to it?

well if you do try to blend them, keep in mind that the swashbuckler ability to regain panache is based on using a 1 handed light piercing weapon.

I am not sure how much you are planning on using the abilities of the two classes in concert, but there are a limited number of one handed light monk piercing weapons with good crit range. I would recommend the wave blade (but it is an exotic weapon) if you intend to flurry.

Well there seems I have a few questions for you.

What type of abilities are you hoping to have?
What role are you wanting to fill?
Why no casting?
Why no VMC?

I also feel it is somewhat necessary to point out that most any class with a pool has a limited pool specifically so that you can not "spam" powers in combat.

The closest two I could see to a harder to run out pool are:
1) panache points for swashbucklers panache pool. A critical hit or a killing blow gets 1 panache back.
2) drunken ki for drunken master monks. Drinking alcohol gets a point. Can be combined with Qinggong archetype and you can get ki leech to get a point back from a killing blow.

What level is this character going to be?

It was already mentioned, but Slayer is phenomenal at this.

At level 2 take the Trapfinding slayer talent. At level 4 take the Rogue talent Trap spotter. You are pretty much good to go after that. To make it better, they are a 6+Int skill point class so you have the extra to put into disable device, sleight of hand, and/or UMD if you want to go that route.

Icing on the cake is that this is only 2 slayer talents out of 10, and combined with the 10 feats you get leveling up, you have a ton of room for customization made all the better by the ability to take Ranger Combat Style Feats as Slayer talents.

Some may wonder why I suggested putting points into diable device when you already get such a nice bonus from tripfinder, but the way I see it, is if you put a point in each round up to 4 when you are good to go, then you offset the armor check penalty of almost all medium armors, and even a masterwork chainmail set. That means combined with the Ranger combat style, your studied target bonuses, and full BaB progression you will be a very viable damage dealer as well.

Thanks. I am having a red letter day for overlooking parts of rules today.

A little something I have been thinking up for a human vital strike build:

HPower Attack
1Dirty Fighting
1Divine Fighting Technique (greatsword)
2Furious Focus
3Improved Trip
4Fury’s Fall
5Combat Reflexes
6Vital Strike
7Greater Trip
8Felling Smash

-- Level 8 is where you can charge, vital strike, trip, and AoO vital strike again if you succeed on trip

9Improved Critical (greatsword)
10Critical Focus
11Tripping Strike

-- Level 11 is where you get 2 trip chances 1 from felling smash and a second if you critical

12 Improved Vital Strike

-- Level 12 is where it gets a bit ridiculous

Someone tell me if that doesn't work. I just started working on the idea recently, so I am sure someone has already perfected it.

As for as I can see the only VMC that mention alignment are:

Cleric - 1 step of diety
Monk - only matters when determine if your ki strikes are lawful
Inquisitor - 1 step of diety
Paladin - Has to follow the paladins code which requires lawful good
Cavaliers - Has to follows the chosen order edicts which may require an alignment

avr wrote:
Ageless_Bum wrote:
Derklord wrote:

You can't use it in combat (three rounds cast time), so I wouldn't call it rage cycling.

Maybe im off but my understanding is unless otherwise stated spell llike abilities were standard actions.


A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description.

Well there you go. I missed that part.

blahpers wrote:
Oof. "Flurry of Misses" my porcine butt.

It would be a thing to see...

Derklord wrote:

You can't use it in combat (three rounds cast time), so I wouldn't call it rage cycling.

Maybe im off but my understanding is unless otherwise stated spell llike abilities were standard actions.

Derklord wrote:

What works "a little too well together" is unMonk VMC Magus

Absolutely agree on this one. I made a question about that in another thread. You and I discussed arcana haste vs boots of speed in it. I was just looking at alternatives

Well, I would say that it doesn't play quite as beautifully with Fighter, but yes it does help them quite a bit too, and fighters have feats and feats and feats to spare.

Rub-Eta wrote:
Almost all of these points apply to the fighter as well.

Are you saying that UnMonk VMC fighter shares most of the same advantages?

This is another did I miss a pitfall question, but I have been looking at a n Unchained Monk VMC Barbarian, and the synergy is almost too good. Am I missing any positives or negatives?

Lets look at the most basic issue with VMC:

It uses up 5 feats.
- UnMonk isn't exactly feat starved.
- 11 feats remain after the 5 lost (12 if you go human)
- The 5 abilities gained from Barbarian are feats that almost any unchained monk would take
- a number of rounds per day equal to your con + level add 4 to str and con
- cannot be caught flat footed
- rage power
- DR3/-
- increase first perk to 6 for str and con

Going further into positive things now:

1) By Raging, you help stop some of the MAD hemorrhaging of the UnMonk. You can devote less to STR which means
2) You can devote more to WIS which you need for Ki points
3) Raging is a free action, so there is no worry about tying up the Un Monk swift action economy top fit in this new option
4) By gaining Uncanny Dodge, suddenly your AC boost are good in almost any situation
5) Many Rage powers works ridiculously well. I for one like the idea of using the Lesser Celestial Totem power to make the wholeness of body ki power more reasonable (1d8 + Character Level + Monk Level) while raging. 2 ki to heal 1d8 +20 at level 10 is nothing to sneeze at.
6) The qinggong ki power restoration removes fatigue for 2 ki. Rage cycling at level 8
7) Everyone loves DR.
8) Furious AoMF

A few negatives I see :

1) The extra rage feat would almost be a requirement
2) Even with more focus on Wis, Ki pool is still going to be something of an issue

Neither Good nor bad :

1) Ring of Ki Mastery makes this all work even better

Actually it would be 3 feats as both require Basic Harmony as a prereq.

Fix was not the right word. bandaid, jury rig, way to make the concept more cost effective all would have been more accurate.

Either way I am happy to hear that I was correct in the understanding.

As a follow up, do you have any feat suggestions for a bard who wants to buff and debuff more than actively fight?

I need some clarification on something for my wife's duettist bard.

At 8th level the Harmonizing Familiar ability allows for both to perform at the same time and increase the bonuses +1 if moral or competence and the dc +2 if the performance has a dc. The downside here being that it takes 3 rounds of perform because it is both the bard and the familiar. Not ideal.

I think I found an interesting fix, but I am not sure on the RAW and RAI implications. If you have a valet familiar (they are treated as having any teamwork feats you do) and you get the compelling harmonies and counterpoint to inspiration feats, then in theory your expended 3 bardic performances would increase the bonuses by 2 and the dc by 4.

I assume this works as both the ability and the feat use the phrase "increases by ".

If my understanding here accurate?

Links below for reference

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/Bard/archetypes/paizo-bard-arc hetypes/duettist-bard-archetype

Compelling Harmonies

Counterpoint to Inspiration
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/counterpoint-to-inspiration-tea mwork/

Is there any reason that the usage of Return of the Fallen from the Resurrection blessing in conjuction with Breath of life (once they kill over) would not work together?

Seems like a easy way of avoiding the heavy gold cost of raise dead.

NeonScorpion wrote:

The problem is I know this player, she is family. The turn before all this happened she began meta gameing over if she should cast Sleep, saying things like "well if i know you and you know how strong sleep can be, you would make it impossible to put the boss to sleep so i shouldn't even try ...

Family can make things quite difficult. It is important to somewhat distance yourself from them in the case that you are the GM. I do not mean treat them as strangers, but to give them the same respect and limitations that strangers would have.

Imagine that this situation was real life for your player. She would never have been able to discuss the option of putting the enemy to sleep. She would have tried and it would have failed. After that she would have tried the arrow trick and that would have failed. It is very realistically how things happen in real life. Even looking at it from game rules, she only wasted 12 seconds of her time by failing for two rounds.

I personally like allowing a certain amount of meta-gaming. I like the players to discuss to an extent. I like for them to joke about the real world implications, and if that makes them realize something was a bad idea, I have no problem with them working off of what they realized. This is a game after all. To balance that, if they try something that just doesn't work, then it just doesn't work and that is life. I still recommend keep responding with the same line every time she asks for permission. Not only is it the truth, but it also drives home the point of do whatever you feel like.

Honestly if she is the type that hates failing, then the game or your group might not end up being the right fit for her. Everyone (including GM) should have fun after all.

The argument probably arose from her being told she couldn't do something. I know a few people like that. She can do whatever she wants. It just would not achieve anything. In this case I think you should have let her do whatever she suggested, but ruled that it didn't work when she did it. The arrows seemed to have specific rules to activate and her character seemingly does not know those rules.

I would see it playing out like this. Player shakes the arrows vigorously to ignite them. You respond that they do not ignite. She would probably next move them through the air with her mage hand to see if that would ignite them. It of course would not, and when she seemingly hit the monster with it, it would not do any more damage than you figure poking someone with 5lbs of force would achieve (1 damage?).

Doing it that way would let the player work out on their own that these magic arrows have rules that have to be met to work. If they tried to argue after that, then the fault for holding up the game is theirs. By telling her it wouldn't work, you gave her character information she would not have had otherwise. That allowed her to suggest that it should work the way she wants them to.

It is impossible not to get caught in these situation even for experienced GMs, and when you do, you have to put your foot down. In that regard you were right. Her constantly asking for permission is juvenile, but your response should be "You can do whatever you want. That is the fun of the game."

Just doing some looking around at the various classes and when studying up on the Warpriest's Blessing, I saw that there was a focused blessing called Resurrection.

"At 10th level, your touch can defy the cold claws of death itself. You can temporarily revive a touched ally to continue fighting, as if you had cast raise dead on her. The revived ally is also staggered for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your warpriest level, after which she immediately dies. The ally is free to act as she sees fit during this time, and you are granted no control over her."

Now reeding this RAW, seems to indicate that the character brought back will instantly drop dead again after the time limit (5 rounds at the point the ability could be used) regardless of their health situation. Makes it pointless to heal them if that is the case. So Am I understanding that correctly?

Another question comes up from this though. Does the temporary bring back to life reset how long they have been dead? Some interesting potentials in preserving a body for transport back to a city for revival if it does. Don't get me wrong their are easier ways to do so, but it is a potential none the less.

If you choose to be in the bar anyway. Ask around in there. Tons of information to be had. You don't even need to "convince" people with charisma. Put that high Constitution as a fighter to use. Challenge them to a drinking game where you get information if you win and you buy their drinks if they win. If nothing else it will give you something to do. Even considering that, you will be given false information, but playing that false information like you got something really worth while is fun too.

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