Adding Magical Abilities to Existing Magic Items

[Skarm]

Hi all,
I was wondering what should mean this part of the rules:
"Adding New Abilities

Sometimes, lack of funds or time make it impossible for a magic item crafter to create the desired item from scratch. Fortunately, it is possible to enhance or build upon an existing magic item. Only time, gold, and the various prerequisites required of the new ability to be added to the magic item restrict the type of additional powers one can place.

The cost to add additional abilities to an item is the same as if the item was not magical, less the value of the original item...

If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%."

In this I don't understand two things:

a) If the item "is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body", the value of the original item is *no longer* subtracted or it is still subtracted by the value of the added ability is 150% of the original??

b) If it is subtracted, how one calculate the price modifier of an added property that would lead to a 150% cost that is *lower* than the original item?

For example, adding the properties of Muleback Cords should be 1.500 gp of extra price, but if I add it to Cloak of Elvenkind (2.500 gp), what would be the cost of adding the ability?

Or it would be +1.500 "clean"?

And also...would be possible to do this also with Magical Tattoos?
But these wouldn't count as occupying "a specific place on a character's body", right?
Skarm

[River of Sticks]

Hi Skarm,

A + B) The value of the original non-magical item is still subtracted. In some cases, this value may be zero. For example, a cloak has a nominal price of 0 - Cloak of Elvenkind is 2500, not 2501. But if you made it out of some expensive material - gold thread or something - that cost 500 gp, then that cloak of elvenkind would be 3000. Where this really starts to come up are weapons and armor - masterwork +material costs.
So yes, the Muleback cords + Cloak of Elvenkind would be 4000 total. If it was a gold thread cloak (or whatever) then it would be 4500.

Yes you can do this with magical tattoos, which are already twice the market price of an equivalent wondrous item for not being item. Note that tattoos DO have item slots, and do count as a specific place. Note the Benefit Paragraph

[Skarm]

River of Sticks wrote:

Hi Skarm,

A + B) The value of the original non-magical item is still subtracted. In some cases, this value may be zero. For example, a cloak has a nominal price of 0 - Cloak of Elvenkind is 2500, not 2501. But if you made it out of some expensive material - gold thread or something - that cost 500 gp, then that cloak of elvenkind would be 3000. Where this really starts to come up are weapons and armor - masterwork +material costs.
So yes, the Muleback cords + Cloak of Elvenkind would be 4000 total. If it was a gold thread cloak (or whatever) then it would be 4500.

Yes you can do this with magical tattoos, which are already twice the market price of an equivalent wondrous item for not being item. Note that tattoos DO have item slots, and do count as a specific place. Note the Benefit Paragraph

Thank you...now it is clearer!

But so...in the example...the +2 vorpal longsword has the +1 longsword subtracted because the +1 is part of the +2 vorpal longsword value just like the (physical, mundane, masterwork) weapon?

Thanks,
Skarm

P.S.: I have already set my eyes on the *lovely* magic tattooes, but take a special build to have them (may be like a cohort)...and I am afraid my DM will not like them... :(

[blahpers]

Take cost of new item.
Subtract cost of old item.
Done.

[Jakkedin]

River of Sticks wrote:

So yes, the Muleback cords + Cloak of Elvenkind would be 4000 total.

I cannot find the proper section right now, but adding other abilities to wondrous items, rings and tattoos is calculated like this:

cost of the least expensive magic item + 1.5 times the cost of every other additional magic item upgrade added.

So muleback cords + cloak of elvenkind should be priced:

1000 + (1.5 x 2500) = 1000 + 3750 = 4750.

No matter which is the base magic item.

[River of Sticks]

I could have sworn it was the opposite... 100% the most expensive item, and then 150% of each secondary set of abilities. But I cannot find rules text for EITHER interpretation. Can you link the FAQ or rules text saying it's cost of least +1.5 everything else?

[Azothath]

Skarm, go and read Items that can save you in 2018 as that will have a lot of simple standard items to look at.

Magical tattoos are not very efficient from a cost perspective, nor are riffle scrolls. Save your cash and use a wand. Weaponwand spell may be of interest.

[Zarius]

OK, so... Having made MANY magical items via the rules, here's how it works:

FIRST, any item that uses an enhancement bonus (Weapons, shields, armor, Amulets of Mighty Fists) basically work out as (Total Enhancement Value) - (Current Enhancement Value). So, if you're adding Flaming to a +1 Holy sword, you're creating a +4 equivalent (32,000g) from a +3 equivalent (18,000g). The VALUE of this upgrade is 14,000g. Cut that in half for COST, if you have Craft Magical Arms and Armor, and then deduct any other bonuses.

This also holds true if you make an existing item STRONGER, such as upgrade a +2 Charisma item to a +4, or a +2 Cloak of Resistance to a +3.

If you are ADDING a function to an item that goes in a slot (Adding, for example, a +5 stealth bonus to +1 Cloak of Resistance), you compare the base value of everything on it and being added. The most expensive base value is at 100%. The next most expensive is at 150%. Per the rules purely as written (they're funky), if you had a THIRD item, it would be at 225% (150% of 150%), and so on. It gets REALLY weird after two functions.

The value actually comes in on NON-slotted items being upgraded. The value the secondary+ enchantments is at 200% for unrelated things... Like if you wanted to add a +10 fire resistance to an unslotted item that already gives a skill bonus to smithing. But it's at 75% (again, technically each stage past first) if it's RELATED, such as adding a +5 Perform bonus to a +4 Charisma item.

[Zarius]

River of Sticks wrote:

I could have sworn it was the opposite... 100% the most expensive item, and then 150% of each secondary set of abilities. But I cannot find rules text for EITHER interpretation. Can you link the FAQ or rules text saying it's cost of least +1.5 everything else?

I don't know where to find it in Paizo's site. Have a link to PFSRD's magic item table, straight to relevant spot.

[Taja the Barbarian]

Zarius wrote:

River of Sticks wrote:

I could have sworn it was the opposite... 100% the most expensive item, and then 150% of each secondary set of abilities. But I cannot find rules text for EITHER interpretation. Can you link the FAQ or rules text saying it's cost of least +1.5 everything else?

I don't know where to find it in Paizo's site. Have a link to PFSRD's magic item table, straight to relevant spot.

If you look at the PRD and look at 'Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values' you'll see the 'Special' section has an entry for 'Multiple different abilities: Multiply lower item cost by 1.5'.

Generally speaking, the more favorable pricing is given to players to avoid having to micro-manage the exact order of enchanting, but it's the GM's call in the end...

[Cevah]

Unfortunatly, the table and the text disagree.

From an old post of mine:
Found in the FAQs for UM (after looking in CRB and APG):
FAQ 1 "The text on page 143 is correct."
FAQ 2 "The text on page 153 is correct."
FAQ 3 "The text on page 157 is correct."
It seems text is preferred to table in the FAQs.

So the rule is: added effects cost 150%.
However, merchants will only pay you at the most efficient crafting, which is most expensive plus 150% other.
This means you want to add a muleback chords to an elven cloak [4,000 gp] rather than an elven cloak to a muleback chords [4,750 gp].

/cevah