| 17 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I see this topic has been addressed many times on the forum without any official rulings whatsoever (Am I missing something?).
What is the reach of a large creature, huge creature, and gargantuan creature respectively with a whip? Assume all creatures are humanoid.
JJ's interpretation is that a large creature with a whip would have 30ft reach but that contradicts the Balor's 20ft of reach with a whip.
Ordinarily reach weapons double the creature's natural reach but a whip has 15ft reach on a medium sized creature. Why then does the Balor have 20ft reach?
Thanks!
I'll Throw and FAQ on it and hope for the best, however being a slightly underused weapon to begin with and only one monster even using I wouldn't get my hopes up that this will garner a lot of hits.
I'll Throw and FAQ on it and hope for the best, however being a slightly underused weapon to begin with and only one monster even using I wouldn't get my hopes up that this will garner a lot of hits.
I'm hoping more people would use it if it had more clarification on its reach. There's so much flavor potential with a whip in combat!
You've listed all the evidence we have, and since JJ says he's not to be quoted for rules that's discarded as real evidence which leaves the balor. So any rule of the whip should somehow make the balor work.
You've listed all the evidence we have, and since JJ says he's not to be quoted for rules that's discarded as real evidence which leaves the balor. So any rule of the whip should somehow make the balor work.
The balor could just be a case of specific > general.
You've listed all the evidence we have, and since JJ says he's not to be quoted for rules that's discarded as real evidence which leaves the balor. So any rule of the whip should somehow make the balor work.The balor could just be a case of specific > general.
If we had more evidence we'd be able to see. As that is the ONLY piece of semi-valid evidence we have I think it's safer to think it's the general rather than our ONLY evidence being an exception to some mysterious general rule.
If we had more evidence we'd be able to see. As that is the ONLY piece of semi-valid evidence we have I think it's safer to think it's the general rather than our ONLY evidence being an exception to some mysterious general rule.You've listed all the evidence we have, and since JJ says he's not to be quoted for rules that's discarded as real evidence which leaves the balor. So any rule of the whip should somehow make the balor work.The balor could just be a case of specific > general.
Using the Balor as the general case breaks reach progression for whips.
medium glaive = 10'
large glaive = 20'
huge glaive = 30'
gargantuan glaive = 40'
Colossal glaive = 60'
vs balor example
medium whip = 15'
large whip = 20'
huge whip = ???
gargantuan whip = ???
Colossal whip = ???
vs using triple normal reach
medium whip = 15'
large whip = 30'
huge whip = 45'
gargantuan whip = 60'
Colossal whip = 90'
vs using normal reach +5'
medium whip = 15'
large whip = 25'
huge whip = 35'
gargantuan whip = 45'
Colossal whip = 65'
Of the three, 3x normal reach makes the most sense. It allows the whip user approximately the same reach as a creature of the next largest size category using a standard reach weapon.
Whip's aren't a reach weapon though. All we have is "The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach"
This means that the whip is ALWAYS 15ft reach aka +10ft of reach because that's what the whip says it is.
OR
Balor is wrong and whip is 3x and the 15ft in the description was an example of the 3x rule at play for small and medium and not always true.
Now I'm going to have to build a huge eidolon with a whip for PFS and start taking it to conventions.
Whip's aren't a reach weapon though. All we have is "The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach"
This means that the whip is ALWAYS 15ft reach aka +10ft of reach because that's what the whip says it is.
OR
Balor is wrong and whip is 3x and the 15ft in the description was an example of the 3x rule at play for small and medium and not always true.
finesse, reach.
How isn't it a reach weapon?
Whip's aren't a reach weapon though. All we have is "The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach"
This means that the whip is ALWAYS 15ft reach aka +10ft of reach because that's what the whip says it is.
OR
Balor is wrong and whip is 3x and the 15ft in the description was an example of the 3x rule at play for small and medium and not always true.
finesse, reach.How isn't it a reach weapon?
My mistake.
Whip's aren't a reach weapon though. All we have is "The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach"
This means that the whip is ALWAYS 15ft reach aka +10ft of reach because that's what the whip says it is.
OR
Balor is wrong and whip is 3x and the 15ft in the description was an example of the 3x rule at play for small and medium and not always true.
finesse, reach.How isn't it a reach weapon?
Your quote seems to be in error. The CRB and UE weapon tables list disarm, nonlethal, reach, and trip under Special for whips. Finesse is not a defined special feature.
Your quote seems to be in error. The CRB and UE weapon tables list disarm, nonlethal, reach, and trip under Special for whips. Finesse is not a defined special feature.
I'm going by these two pages:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/Weapons/#exotic-one-handedThis one lists under special: disarm, nonlethal, reach, trip
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/whip
This lists under Weapon Feature(s): finesse, reach.
I'm in the reach x3 camp, but I smashed that FAQ button so hopefully we'll get an answer.
Looking through the Bestiaries, there are both examples for a static +x reach, no matter the size (most prominent example: dragons with their bite attack), and for multiplied reach (such as giant squid and tarrasque). That's for particular natural attacks instead of reach weapons, so it's of limited use for this discussion, but it questions the balor example.
Your quote seems to be in error. The CRB and UE weapon tables list disarm, nonlethal, reach, and trip under Special for whips. Finesse is not a defined special feature.I'm going by these two pages:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/Weapons/#exotic-one-handed
This one lists under special: disarm, nonlethal, reach, triphttp://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/whip
This lists under Weapon Feature(s): finesse, reach.
Oh, d20pfsrd. That explains it.
Yeah the use that to make it easier to reference which weapons that aren't normally covered by finesse ,IE. light melee, are covered by the feat.