Can a Good Outsider turn himself into a Mystery Cultist?

[Tiefling Commoner]

Here's one for ya. Say I want to take the Mystery Cultist prestige class. One of the ways to qualify is by "being rescued from the brink of death by a willing good outsider of CR 5 or greater." (Chronicle of the Righteous p.48)

Now let's say I've got a level 6 Aasimar paladin (CR 5) who falls below zero hit points in combat. He casts Hero's Defiance as an immediate action and brings himself back up above zero hit points. Since he is a good outsider who has rescued himself from the brink of death, does he now qualify for the prestige class? Or can he only qualify if a different outsider saves his life?

[Zarius]

Native Outsider isn't the same thing as an Outsider. Proooobably not.

[Zhayne]

A native outsider is an Outsider with the native subtype. It IS an Outsider. The qualification doesn't specify it has to be someone else, so you fit all the qualifications. You're good to go.

[Tiefling Commoner]

Zarius wrote:

Native Outsider isn't the same thing as an Outsider. Proooobably not.

Native is a subtype. It doesn't make the Outsider less of an Outsider any more than a Humanoid with the Giant subtype is less of a Humanoid.

[Chris Ballard]

I think that it was intended to be an outsider with the good subtype.

[pad300]

RAW yes, I'm pretty sure that RAI didn't intend recursion/self qualifying...

[GM Rednal]

@Tiefling Commoner: By my reading, you've technically fulfilled the requirements of the prestige class. XD It's kinda sneaky, but it doesn't actually say the outsider in question has to be someone else..

[Knight Magenta]

I think "save" implies it has to be someone else. If the paladin heals himself, then he clearly did not need saving. It's like claiming that winning a fight while in negative HP with diehard counts.

[avr]

I think the idea with being saved is that you make contact with someone who is A) impressed by your sacrifice and B) can put you in touch with the power in the mystery cult.

Yes it matches the text as written but IMO it misses the point.

[Ferious Thune]

Chris Ballard wrote:

I think that it was intended to be an outsider with the good subtype.

This would be my thought as well. That being said, if this isn't for PFS, then just let your GM know you are interested in the prestige class, and maybe they'll work it into the game.

If it is for PFS, you're in luck, because the roleplaying requirements for prestige classes are waived.

[Zhayne]

Knight Magenta wrote:

I think "save" implies it has to be someone else. If the paladin heals himself, then he clearly did not need saving. It's like claiming that winning a fight while in negative HP with diehard counts.

If at any point you're alive and they aren't, you won. Sure, in a few rounds it might become irrelevant, but you did win.

I would definitely argue that anybody who is low enough on HP that they can die in the next round needs saving.

[Tiefling Commoner]

FWIW, I do actually believe the intent and flavor of the class means it's supposed to be a Outsider other than the character trying to enter the class. But as written, it does seem like any Outsider of sufficient hit dice with the ability to heal himself up from or prevent himself from falling to zero hit points can meet the requirement by himself, mechanically speaking.

I don't agree that it should have to be a Good-subtype outsider only. Granted, those are the ones who will be doing it ninety-nine percent of the time but Good-subtype is very specific rules wording which they chose not to use.

[Ferious Thune]

Good-aligned is also specific language, which they also chose not to use. So there's ambiguity. Paladin's Smite Evil, for example, is more clearly written, referring to an "outsider with the evil subtype" and an "evil-aligned dragon." So there's room for interpretation here.

But it's a roleplaying requirement, and the GM should really work with a player who wants to accomplish this, instead of it turning into a game of rules-semantics.