Master Craftsman questions

[DarkPhoenixx]

Master Craftsman says

Quote:

You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item.

does this mean i can use Master Craftsman (weapons) to make magic armor by making Craft(weapons) check? There is no way to take this feat multiple times (i actually want to key it to Craft (blacksmithing) for flavor).

Will Amazing Tools of Manufacture allow me to make 2000gp magic item in 1 hour with this feat?

And i dont believe there is a feat or somethign similar that will allow non-caster to take Forge Ring?

P.S.: I am making an NPC Expert crafter/shopkeeper who is supposed to supply PC with magic items.

[Trish Megistos]

1. As I understand it allows you to pick Craft Magical Arms and Armor (at the expense of a feat of course) and then substitute the spellcraft check with your craft weapon check to craft the armor. But yes.

2. Yes.

3. Not as far as I know.

[Darche Schneider]

I end up doing some fun ones myself, like Profession Gambling with a gunslinger so its like "Where did you get that handy haversack?" "I won it in a game of cards."

[Bob Bob Bob]

1. No.

Creating Magic Armor wrote:

Skill Used in Creation: Spellcraft or Craft (armor).

There's only two skills you can use to make Magic Armor without an exception. Master Craftsman doesn't say it grants any exception to the usual way to make magic items. "Must use chosen skill" is a restriction, not a boon.

2. I don't honestly know. I'm guessing Paizo would rule no (in that magic items have their own separate rules for creating them) but there's absolutely an argument to be made that "making an item using the Craft skill" includes any item you use Craft to make. Expect table variation.

3. Not that I'm aware of.

Also you want Profession (blacksmith). Craft (blacksmith) is used for making more blacksmiths... which I think takes at least nine months? Maybe less for other races.

[DarkPhoenixx]

I thought blacksmithing is a Profession too, but here it says Craft (blacksmithing), so i go with that.

I dont intend to craft more blacksmiths XD

So that means i can only be master craftsman in 1 skill? What about wondorous items? They only have spellcraft crafting check, most of the time, and despite being spellCraft, it does not count as Craft by rules.

[Java Man]

Wondrous items might be made with craft jeweler, tailor, armorsmith, sculptor or whatever craft skill fits the specific item.

[DarkPhoenixx]

That is sensible, but i dont see it written anywhere.

[Bob Bob Bob]

Wondrous Items is fairly broad in what it allows.

Creating Wondrous Items wrote:

Skill Used In Creation: Spellcraft or an applicable Craft or Profession skill check.

I've seen lots of attempts to cheese that (Profession (magic item maker) for instance) but as Java Man mentioned, Craft (jewelry), Craft (clothing), and Craft (leather) would cover quite a few items. I think Craft (jewelry) is probably the best but it depends on what you want to make. Wondrous Items don't generally specifically list what skills you can use to make them. I can't think of any that do, actually. The reason armor and weapons are so limited is that they specifically list the only skills you can use.

Everything is from this page if you want to check yourself.

[graystone]

Check out expanded skill uses in unchained that gives which crafts make with items.

expanded skill uses

[DarkPhoenixx]

I guess that is the best bet, it is closest thing to actually defining what skill crafts what magic item. Still character can only key one skill to Master Crafter and it lacks the clause about being able to take the feat multiple times...

[Jurassic Pratt]

By RAW it would seem the feat let's you use any of its mentioned skills to craft all the items. It'd be a sensible houserule to change that, but it would be a houserule.

[Dragonborn3]

Instead of jumping through hopes, why not make the NPC an Artisan?

[DarkPhoenixx]

Thats third party class (tho seems more reasonably written than Master Craftsman). Its not that i have aversion to 3rd party stuff, but i prefer sticking to paizo.

[Dragonborn3]

Then, my friend, I think you are out of luck. As written Master Craftsman isn't really masterful.

[DeusTerran]

From my understandin, master craftsman lets you use the chosen skill as a replacement for caster levels and spellcraft (aka the actual enchanting). so if you want to make a magic sword using craft (backsmithing) with master craftsman you need to get your hands on a masterwork sword via other means (don't do it via mundane crafting, that takes forever)

[Bob Bob Bob]

DeusTerran wrote:

From my understandin, master craftsman lets you use the chosen skill as a replacement for caster levels

This is correct.

DeusTerran wrote:

and spellcraft (aka the actual enchanting).

...

This is not.

Master Craftsman wrote:

Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item. The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements (see the magic item creation rules in Magic Items). You cannot use this feat to create any spell-trigger or spell-activation item.

It says you "must use" the skill. It does not say "may use". That's a restriction, not an exception. Spellcraft is not mentioned at all. And since all magic items granted by the feat could already be made using Craft skills there's no reason to assume the feat grants some form of exception.

[DarkPhoenixx]

DeusTerran wrote:

From my understandin, master craftsman lets you use the chosen skill as a replacement for caster levels and spellcraft (aka the actual enchanting). so if you want to make a magic sword using craft (backsmithing) with master craftsman you need to get your hands on a masterwork sword via other means (don't do it via mundane crafting, that takes forever)

Thats what i thought too, since it forces the character to use the keyed skill when crafting items (since "must").

Maybe you can only be Master in one field (makes sense from flavor point).

Also, is ther anything like Master Alchemist for other crafts that allows you to use GP value instead of SP?

[VRMH]

DarkPhoenixx wrote:

P.S.: I am making an NPC Expert crafter/shopkeeper who is supposed to supply PC with magic items.

An Adept would have a Caster Level. Other NPCs can be at hand to make or boost any and all Skill checks, so you don't need to be an Expert at all.

If your NPC hires a 1st level Helpful Halfling Expert, that's +4 to a skill check. Or better yet: a 3rd level Human Commoner with the Bestow Luck Feat, for +8. Or both.
Add a Changeling with Coven Caster to boost the shopkeepers CL, and there's very little you can't make. Plus you have an interesting cast of people for the players to interact with, fleshing out what would otherwise have been a "magic items vending machine".

[DarkPhoenixx]

I want them specifically to not be a spellcaster, but just a skilled crafsman. Will probably have a cast tho, family of dwarves who each specialise in different craft.

[DarkPhoenixx]

Here we go again:
Lets assume we have 2 dwarves, Guflaf and Guflof. Both have ful ranks in Craft(weapons), Craft(armor) and Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat. The only difference is Guflaf have Master Craftsman (weapons) and Guflof have Master Craftsman (armor).
If they both have Cooperative Crafting, this means if they craft magic weapon/armor, the relevant dwarf can make the check and assisting one give him +2 to the check and item is crafted at double speed?

[Bob Bob Bob]

DarkPhoenixx wrote:

Here we go again:

Lets assume we have 2 dwarves, Guflaf and Guflof. Both have ful ranks in Craft(weapons), Craft(armor) and Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat. The only difference is Guflaf have Master Craftsman (weapons) and Guflof have Master Craftsman (armor).
If they both have Cooperative Crafting, this means if they craft magic weapon/armor, the relevant dwarf can make the check and assisting one give him +2 to the check and item is crafted at double speed?

So it's always helpful to quote the rules for what you're asking about.

Cooperative Crafting wrote:

Benefit: You can assist another character in crafting mundane and magical items. You must both possess the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat, but either one of you can fulfill any other prerequisites for crafting the item. You provide a +2 circumstance bonus on any Craft or Spellcraft checks related to making an item, and your assistance doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day.

Yes, it appears to work. It doesn't even seem like they both need the skills (since it only requires "the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat", not both).