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Even a potion of Cure Light Wounds would be beyond the means of the majority, who would likely receive any magical healing from their local priest or hedge witch.
I mean, just in terms of "trying to take the economics of this seriously" it's hard to beat the dedicated Kinetic Chirugeon. At 7th level you can cure 600 people of their diseases in a single hour at no cost to yourself (have the patient take the burn and tell them to sleep it off.) If people with this archetype are at all common, they run the most profitable health care system on Golarion even if all they charge for is their time (At 13th level you can restore 2400 amputated limbs in an 8 hour period.)
So the only money in portable cures is in selling them to adventurers, I figure.
I mean, just in terms of "trying to take the economics of this seriously" it's hard to beat the dedicated Kinetic Chirugeon. At 7th level you can cure 600 people of their diseases in a single hour at no cost to yourself (have the patient take the burn and tell them to sleep it off.) If people with this archetype are at all common, they run the most profitable health care system on Golarion even if all they charge for is their time
My health care system is an auto-resetting trap that casts Heal on anyone who triggers it. Works 24 hours a day, no upkeep costs, and cures ability damage, blindness, disease, fatigue, hit point damage, insanity and poison.
Standard creation rules trump store bought items any way you look at it. In every AP that I've seen they encourage you to give the players downtime between each module. I think very specifically so they can create magic items. Allowing players to purchase items at market price means less gold to create magic items.
Not true, at least, not true for Paizo APs. There are numerous developer posts regarding the amount of loot the put into APs. Of the APs I've read (every one since Giantslayer plus CoCT and Mummy's Mask), only a few explicitly say anything about crafting, and they all mention that you should control it to prevent unbalancing.
Ironfang Invasion and Ruins of Azlant, for example, are specifically built around a lack of availability. You can't even craft if you can't buy the supplies necessary to do so. Also, developers can't predict whether a party will have the ability to craft, or the GM will even allow it (it is the GM's call, after all).
In the campaign I'm running now the AP is located around Magnamar. As a metropolis there really isn't any excuse not to have some magic items be...
Is this a Paizo AP?
I never said that stores don't have items, either. I SPECIFICALLY cited "economy rules" in the post you quoted. This means I follow the stat blocks and the base value, max value, and available items lists. Any item below base value has a 75% chance of being available. If it's not, the player gets to check again in a week. They can also commission higher level items, but it may take longer. I adjust the available items to match my party (somewhat) as well. Available items go above base value, too.
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Is this a Paizo AP?
It is the Rise of the Runelords AP. As far as I know there are 2 other APs from Piazo that heavily involve Magnamar as well.
Also just to point out that by the time players are worrying about not being able to spend 36k they should be able to teleport to a substantially large city. Unless the entire AP is set up to mess with teleportation?
Even the biggest cities in the world which have all the best settlement qualities for shopping get up to 33600 gp base value. (16k base for metropolis, plus magically attuned, notorious, prosperous, strategic location, and tourist attraction) There is nowhere in the multiverse to routinely buy any specific 36k gp magic item.
Teleportation magic will certainly let you get more rolls on the random medium/major items for sale list. I use an online rolling tool for this so I can generate a city's shopping list in seconds.
Hey guys, you need to remember that those items were converted from 3.5, that means XP costs was converted to five times the gold, so back then the profit in money was a lot bigger at the cost of XP.
Here are the costs for 3.5:
Cost 1,250 gp + 5,100 XP (+1), 2,500 gp + 10,200 XP (+2), 3,750 gp + 15,300 XP (+3), 5,000 gp + 20,400 XP (+4), 6,250 gp + 25,500 XP (+5); the selling price is the same as Pathfinder.
It is the Rise of the Runelords AP. As far as I know there are 2 other APs from Piazo that heavily involve Magnamar as well.
Just 1 other, Shattered Star, which is the sequel to RotR. But that's irrelevant to my point.
So is this:
Also just to point out that by the time players are worrying about not being able to spend 36k they should be able to teleport to a substantially large city. Unless the entire AP is set up to mess with teleportation?
It doesn't matter if you have 36,000 GP to spend, or 36,000,000 GP to spend. Please read my posts and take note of all the times I've mentioned "economy rules" and base value. I've only mentioned them a half a dozen times, and clearly you don't know what that means. No city in Golarion has a base value that high, which means no city in Golarion has +6 stat items in stock as a rule. Magnimar's base value is only 12,800 GP, so even +4 items are unavailable there.
Note that each city has a list of minor, medium, and sometimes, major items available. If the GM (me in this case) stats them all out - some already come fully populated, then you have better odds as ryric points out, but that's a pain to do, and I generally only allow travelling to locations that are nearby unless the PCs are from far away anyway.
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Never try and apply real world logic to D&D economics.
They are made first and foremost to be game mechanics, not realistic economic models.
Never try and apply real-world logic to real-world economic predictions, either. It only ends in tears.
Note that each city has a list of minor, medium, and sometimes, major items available. If the GM (me in this case) stats them all out - some already come fully populated, then you have better odds as ryric points out, but that's a pain to do, and I generally only allow travelling to locations that are nearby unless the PCs are from far away anyway.In short, that kind of attempt at limiting what is available for purchase is a huge pain in the butt.
Um, no. Have you even bothered to read the economy rules? Seriously, it's getting silly.
I use an online rolling tool for this so I can generate a city's shopping list in seconds.
Hmm, interesting. Is it the Donjon one?
And taks is right, by RAW settlements are quite limited when it comes to available items. Depends on GM and players whether you want to stick with that - fewer buyable items means more incentive to go adventuring, at least.
I know I must be missing something...
If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the item, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) but need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require.So the 25,000gp cost of the wish spell for a Manual to increase a Attribute is not needed to make the item.In addition, some items cast or replicate spells with costly material components. For these items, the market price equals the base price plus an extra price for the spell component costs. The cost to create these items is the magic supplies cost plus the costs for the components. Descriptions of these items include an entry that gives the total cost of creating the item.In the case of the Tomes, they're Replicating the effects of a Wish (or multiple Wishes as appropriate.)
ETA: And to support this:
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Craft Wondrous Item, miracle or wish; Cost 26,250 gp (+1), 52,500 gp (+2), 78,750 gp (+3), 105,000 gp (+4), 131,250 gp (+5)
Was always told that the specific rule over wrote the general rule.
Magic Item Creation (the general rule), says you include material cost of spells for all Magic Items.
Craft Wondrous Item (the specific rule), says you need not supply the material cost of spells for Wondrous Items.
Can someone explain to me what the Craft Wondrous Item rule is meant to mean if not to over rule the the General Rule?
Is anyone actually claiming that you need to spend an extra 25,000gp on top of the construction requirements?
Just to clarify: the 25,000gp is built into the construction costs of the tome.
+1 Tome: 27,500 gp to buy, 26,250 gp to craft.
Normally the crafting cost is 50%, but here it isn't, because the 25,000gp for casting Wish cannot be reduced. The remaining 2,500gp cost is halved if you craft it.
(A reasonable house rule would be that it only takes a few days to craft, because the 25,000gp Wish component doesn't take 25 days, it takes one standard action. This would fix the 'Why would anyone spend four months making an object with virtually no profit margin?' problem.)
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Is anyone actually claiming that you need to spend an extra 25,000gp on top of the construction requirements?
Just to clarify: the 25,000gp is built into the construction costs of the tome.
+1 Tome: 27,500 gp to buy, 26,250 gp to craft.
Normally the crafting cost is 50%, but here it isn't, because the 25,000gp for casting Wish cannot be reduced. The remaining 2,500gp cost is halved if you craft it.
(A reasonable house rule would be that it only takes a few days to craft, because the 25,000gp Wish component doesn't take 25 days, it takes one standard action. This would fix the 'Why would anyone spend four months making an object with virtually no profit margin?' problem.)
That's not a house rule; see my post above for the relevant PRD quote. Expensive material costs don't count towards crafting times.
SheepishEidolon, I use the generator at the Archives of Nethys. There used to be a more robust one that I used that allowed you to adjust the base value, but it's disappeared from the web.
SheepishEidolon, I use the generator at the Archives of Nethys. There used to be a more robust one that I used that allowed you to adjust the base value, but it's disappeared from the web.
This one is already quite good, especially since it contains links within the Archive. Thanks.
Is anyone actually claiming that you need to spend an extra 25,000gp on top of the construction requirements?
Just to clarify: the 25,000gp is built into the construction costs of the tome.
In addition, some items cast or replicate spells with costly material components. For these items, the market price equals the base price plus an extra price for the spell component costs. The cost to create these items is the magic supplies cost plus the costs for the components. Descriptions of these items include an entry that gives the total cost of creating the item.
Yes the Creation Cost includes material component cost in the Total cost of creation.
+1 Tome: 27,500 gp to buy, 26,250 gp to craft.
Normally the crafting cost is 50%, but here it isn't, because the 25,000gp for casting Wish cannot be reduced. The remaining 2,500gp cost is halved if you craft it.
If the 2500gp for casting cannot be reduced, what does this rule mean?
If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the item, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) but need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require.
+1 Tome: 27,500 gp to buy, 26,250 gp to craft.
Normally the crafting cost is 50%, but here it isn't, because the 25,000gp for casting Wish cannot be reduced. The remaining 2,500gp cost is halved if you craft it.
If the 25(,0)00gp for casting cannot be reduced, what does this rule mean?
If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the item, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) but need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require.
You to use a spell slot with Wish in it once a day while crafting the item.
This rule means you don't have to pay the material components for casting Wish daily as part of the crafting on top of the stated crafting costs.