Is there an actual rule / FAQ / Errata / Developer saying that Summoners can use Superior Summoning?

[Yropro]

My DM is very firm in his belief that it was no intended for Summoners to use Superior Summoning, or anything other than Augment Summoning?

Is there anything at all I can use to help me sway him?

Edit: For clarity, I'm about about these feats with the Summoner SLA.

[Rysky]

There's absolutely nothing that says they can't, and they would meet all the prerequisites. So yes they can take it.

Don't really know what we could offer to help sway your GM. Superior Summoning affects spells that summon more than one creature, which Summoner has access to.

[Yropro]

Specifically I meant the Summon Monster SLA.

[Peevenator]

By RAW, yes, they can use it. However, if your GM doesn't want to allow it for Summoners, that's his call to make regardless of design intent.

[Yropro]

Peevenator wrote:

By RAW, yes, they can use it. However, if your GM doesn't want to allow it for Summoners, that's his call to make regardless of design intent.

How does the feat work with the SLA by RAW?

[Jurassic Pratt]

I mean, Augment Summoning has basically the same wording in how it works as Superior Summoning. So it makes 0 sense for one to work and the other not to.

Here's a link to a thread where Owen KC Stephens explains why Augment Summoning works which should apply to why Superior Summoning should work as well.

[David knott 242]

For the Augment Summoning feat, you could point to the Master Summoner archetype in Ultimate Magic. If a summoner cannot use that feat, then why in the world does that archetype grant it as a bonus feat to a Summoner archetype?

In fact, there is a direct FAQ for Augment Summoning here.

[Dasrak]

Yropro wrote:

How does the feat work with the SLA by RAW?

Spell-like ability wrote:

Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name.

Unless otherwise stated, the spell-like ability works like the spell it emulates. If you have a feat that modifies how the spell works, transitivity applies and it also modifies the SLA.

[Rysky]

David knott 242 wrote:

For the Augment Summoning feat, you could point to the Master Summoner archetype in Ultimate Magic. If a summoner cannot use that feat, then why in the world does that archetype grant it as a bonus feat to a Summoner archetype?

Nice catch

[Yropro]

Right. He's completely onboard with Augment Summoning. It's everything else he thinks doesn't work.

That's why I'm trying to prove that things like superior summoning should work. Just trying to gather quotes and stuff.

[Rysky]

*scratches head*

Not sure what else to offer, other than what everyone has said.

There's nothing to say Summoner can't take it... it's right up there with saying Barbarian can't take Power Attack...

[Yropro]

Less the taking it, more the effecting SLA part.

Isn't there a quote somewhere saying that the SLAs functioned as the spell in all respect except having a spell level or something for metamagic?

[Rysky]

Yep, in the SLA entry, as Dasrak provided.

[Diego Rossi]

It is very simple: Superior summoning isn't a metamagic. So it work without problems with the SLA summoning spells.

[Yropro]

Thank you everyone, I'll try this.

[Melkiador]

Magic chapter wrote:

Spell-Like Abilities: Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name.

After that quote, they list all the ways it doesn’t work just like the spell. Feats aren’t mentioned, so the SLA works just like the spell with regards to feats.

What confuses people is that an SLA in general, is not a spell in general. So, having an SLA doesn’t count as being able to cast “spells” for prerequisites. But an SLA that casts a specific spell does count as being able to cast that specific spell for prerequisites that require a specific spell.

[Yropro]

Sounds good. Now I just need to come up with a great way to approach him about it. (I'm seen as a "powergamer" new addition to the group since my Kineticist was accidentally significantly stronger than everyone. And my new wizard is ungodly good at crafting)

This is all for another player who is upset at their feeling weak, and being told they can't do muc to be stronger.

[Melkiador]

Hmm. If your kineticist was significantly stronger than the other characters, then maybe you shouldn’t bother with that feat. That class has a fairly low ceiling. A pimped out summoner would be so much stronger.

Edit: I see you added this is for someone else. But instead, I have to warn that summoning needs prep-time and system mastery to not bog down the table.

[Yropro]

They're used to summoning, and they're a Monster Tactician Inquisitor.

The DM gave us a template that gave +4 to all stats, +2DCs, and bunch of other stuff, as well as Mythic 1. And he's bummed because that really does nothing for him.

[Wayne Bradbury]

If the GM refuses to allow Superior Summoning for some ridiculous reason, just tell this other player to make a Summoner focused on the Eidolon, which is super powerful in its own right.

But yes, for all the reasons already listed, Summoner can definitely use Superior Summoning with its SLA. I'll also point out that I have an Unchained Summoner in PFS with Superior Summoning, and PFS is pretty strict on RAW.