If you already have levels in a prestige class before you pick up this feat,and you assign it as your favored prestige class, are the hit points/skill points retroactive to all levels previously gained within that class? or does it only count toward levels gained after gaining the feat?
favored prestige class wrote:
Favored Prestige Class
You have come to favor a certain prestige class, either because you are particularly devoted to the class’s cause, have trained more than most others have for that specific role, or have simply been destined to excel in the prestige class all along. Regardless of the reason, levels gained in your favored prestige class grant additional benefits in a way similar to those you gain for taking levels in your base favored class.
Benefit(s): Choose one prestige class and one skill that is a class skill for that prestige class. Whenever you gain a level in that prestige class, you receive +1 hit point or +1 skill rank. You gain a +2 bonus on checks using the skill you chose from that prestige class’s class skills. If you have 10 or more ranks in one of these skills, the bonus increases to +4 for that skill. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Skill Focus, but does not stack with a bonus granted by any other feat (such as Magical Aptitude or Persuasive).
The choice of favored prestige class cannot be changed once you make it. Levels in a favored prestige class are not the same as levels in a regular favored class, and as such levels in a favored prestige class can never be used to qualify or gain favored class options. You can have only one favored prestige class, but can still have a favored base class as well.
You can select this feat before you gain levels in your chosen favored prestige class, but the benefits of the feat do not apply until you actually gain at least 1 level in that prestige class.
Normal: Prestige classes cannot be a favored class, and cannot benefit from the additional hit point or skill rank afforded to those who take levels in a favored class.
The only topics ive been able to find on this feat are with regards to gaining race/class combo special benefits or abusing aligned classes and/or half-elf multitalent to try and "gain a level" in both the prestige class and the aligned base class at the same time for extra health/skills. i can already see fairly plainly that neither of those things is possible. i just want to know about previous levels gained.
By the text, I would say no, you don't get retroactive benifits. Personally I would allow them, however.
It should almost certainly read "For each level in this prestige class" or some other inclusive language. Chalk this up to bad editing.
RAW, though, it would not.
Ah, shame. You think PFS would go for the (pretty obvious) RAI, or straight RAW interpretation? With Society play since a character and their gains would be valid anywhere in the world without actually knowing anyone you're dealing with, that leaves little room for GM-by-GM fiat, I would think. So best to plan around the most probable outcome.
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It says "whenever", not "in future", so "in the past" should be OK :)
There are various developer comments around that two characters with the same stats, feats and abilities should work exactly the same whatever order things are added; this is why INT increases give retroactive skill points (and similar effects of attribute increase). The same should apply in this case.
Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
I would concur with the above, especially in the absence of specific language saying that it is NOT retroactive (as can be seen in the Nemesis feat and the Mental Acuity oracle revelation).
Yeah, no.
By your reading, when I take Bleeding Critical at level 11, everyone I have ever crit-ed mysteriously begins to bleed profusely. That's not how the language works, and not what they meant, and you both know it.
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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
toastedamphibian wrote: Yeah, no.
By your reading, when I take Bleeding Critical at level 11, everyone I have ever crit-ed mysteriously begins to bleed profusely. That's not how the language works, and not what they meant, and you both know it.
Whoa, there. That's quite the stretch and you know it. We're talking about what a character can do now, not what it can do in the past.
I think it's pretty clearly in everyone's interest if two characters made entirely the same except the order in which they took their feats would have the same capabilities, and that's been a widely utilized game design decision.
Retroactive skill and HP increases are a the most recognizable evidence of that philosophy. Your argument could be extended to these "Oh, at level 1 I went down in that fight, but since I took toughness at level 2 I never should have" That argument is absurd here and it's absurd when applied to previous criticals.
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The effect of feats and stat changes that modify skill or hit point acquisition are normally applied to all the eligible levels, that is done for ease of crating higher level characters. Look how increasing intelligence work.
Unless there is a specific text barring that, the effect is applied even to eligible class that you have taken before taking the feat.
Priyd wrote: If you already have levels in a prestige class before you pick up this feat,and you assign it as your favored prestige class, are the hit points/skill points retroactive to all levels previously gained within that class? or does it only count toward levels gained after gaining the feat?
In general, effects like this are retroactive in Pathfinder, as a principle design decision.
WatersLethe wrote:
I think it's pretty clearly in everyone's interest if two characters made entirely the same except the order in which they took their feats would have the same capabilities, and that's been a widely utilized game design decision.
Which is the correct response. Not trying to make some absurdly forced claim based on the use of the word "whenever".
Quote:
Your argument could be extended to these ... and it's absurd when applied to previous criticals.
That is the point, the argument was absurd. You cannot start treating every feat that has the word "whenever" as applying to past events, that is daft. And unnecessary. If you want to apply the feat to previously levels, there are so many better reasons to justify such a choice that intentionally trying to mangle the language is counter productive.
toastedamphibian wrote: Which is the correct response. Not trying to make some absurdly forced claim based on the use of the word "whenever".Quote:
Which is why I put a smiley after that comment and went on to explain the "characters with the same feats/abilities should work the same" design decision.
Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
WatersLethe wrote: I think it's pretty clearly in everyone's interest if two characters made entirely the same except the order in which they took their feats would have the same capabilities, and that's been a widely utilized game design decision.
Retroactive skill and HP increases are a the most recognizable evidence of that philosophy.
You get the hit points or skill points retroactively for the reasons WatersLethe gave above.
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