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I'm not talking about the specific spell "Blasphemy", but a more general sense of blasphemy.
Basically: say I have a bard with healing spells (or any other class, really), but I pose as a Cleric of a certain God for some reason. Be it profit, infiltration, etc.
Would you have consequences to doing this? Are there specific rules, or is this more a GM discretion thing?
Assume the character isn't caught out in their lie - so there's no legitimate clerics or paladins that're offended by their actions. The Gods would surely know, however?
I dunno - just a small scenario I was thinking of today. Wondered what the wider community thought.
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This is something of a setting-specific question.
In most settings, the gods either can't or won't get involved in dealing with "minor" blasphemers. Some gods might not even view it as blasphemy e.g. pretending to be a cleric of the god of deception is arguably a form of worship.
Generally, direct divine intervention is a Bad Idea. Unless it is a place strongly attuned to the god in question, not recommended. Even then, I'd keep the penalty small unless the character actively does something to significantly harm the church or the congregation.
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This seems the kind of thing that might have more repercussions with the mortal followers of a deity; I can't imagine a deity caring unless it's a truly major and despicable offense (even then, the response is more likely to be from agents of the deity than any reaction from the deity itself.)
If the players burn down a church of Erastil and try to blame it on the church of Asmodeus (or vice-versa), they may have both angelic and infernal agents on their trail, but I can't imagine Asmodeus or Erastil directly smiting them.
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As some of you guys've said, I was sort-of hinting toward the idea that - even if the followers don't know about the blasphemy, the Deity might, and might therefore task their followers to deal with it (as opposed to, as you say, direct intervention).
I wondered if it might offend the God, or the religion, for an Arcane caster to be goin' around profiteering off of the God's reputation without having earned that position, or paying due tribute/respect. Even if this wouldn't bring any real harm to their reputation, although arguably it might do if this unscrupulous individual is seen to be charging for heals in Bahamut's good name (for instance).
I always ran it via "the gods have agreed not to directly intervene in the world" and a god directly intervening in a context other than affecting their faithful or holy places, and only those people and places entitles one of the deities on the "other side" to take a comparable action at a time of their choosing without fear of repercussions.
So a god's not going to intervene impulsively to save or kill somebody, because that allows their ostensible enemies to do the same thing at a later date after they've had time to plan the perfect one.
So a deity is not going to get involved with a false priest spouting nonsense, that's for the terrestrial church to deal with as they see fit. If a true believer recants their deity and starts making trouble, they can probably get smitten before they sign off with someone else though.
Many settings assume that the gods very rarely if ever intervene directly in the mortal realm. They have clerics and other faithful to do that for them, and merely provide divine magic and the occasional cryptic prophecy.
You might want to take a look at Green Ronin's The Book of the Righteous (originally for v.3.0, now available for 5E). It provides an in-depth look at how to run a game with churches that have been infiltrated by imposters, or corrupted away from the god's original worship. The book as a whole presents a fully-developed pantheon with information on each god's legends, church, and precepts. The shared mythology of these gods includes a divine compact which ended direct conflict between gods, but also allowed fiends to tempt mortals. One effect of this compact is that the gods can't (or don't) intervene to cleanse their temples of false or corrupt priests. One major god's church has been almost entirely taken over by a vast conspiracy of priests of an evil god. Several others have splinter sects that are corrupt or outright heretical. (The book posits that these latter might receive their spells from a source other than they god they claim to serve, but only the gods know the truth.)
Green Ronin's Freeport setting includes a similar situation, where (per Cults of Freeport) one of the major temples in the city has been infiltrated by an archfiend's cult that now controls it entirely. The temple's original god is quite furious about it, but largely powerless to act and reveal the truth. And in the original Freeport Trilogy, there's an example of a more benevolent imposter cleric who never suffered any consequences for his deception.
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Many settings assume that the gods very rarely if ever intervene directly in the mortal realm. They have clerics and other faithful to do that for them, and merely provide divine magic and the occasional cryptic prophecy.
You might want to take a look at Green Ronin's The Book of the Righteous (originally for v.3.0, now available for 5E). It provides an in-depth look at how to run a game with churches that have been infiltrated by imposters, or corrupted away from the god's original worship. The book as a whole presents a fully-developed pantheon with information on each god's legends, church, and precepts. The shared mythology of these gods includes a divine compact which ended direct conflict between gods, but also allowed fiends to tempt mortals. One effect of this compact is that the gods can't (or don't) intervene to cleanse their temples of false or corrupt priests. One major god's church has been almost entirely taken over by a vast conspiracy of priests of an evil god. Several others have splinter sects that are corrupt or outright heretical. (The book posits that these latter might receive their spells from a source other than they god they claim to serve, but only the gods know the truth.)
Green Ronin's Freeport setting includes a similar situation, where (per Cults of Freeport) one of the major temples in the city has been infiltrated by an archfiend's cult that now controls it entirely. The temple's original god is quite furious about it, but largely powerless to act and reveal the truth. And in the original Freeport Trilogy, there's an example of a more benevolent imposter cleric who never suffered any consequences for his deception.
This is quite the lengthy (and insightful) reply - thanks, Tim! I'll admit I know next to nothing about the lore other than the basics, so I appreciate you taking the time to provide this.
I always found settings where something other than the Gods was answering back (like Ravenloft, for instance), so I'll need to try to read more into the heretic stuff, too!
Basically: say I have a bard with healing spells (or any other class, really), but I pose as a Cleric of a certain God for some reason. Be it profit, infiltration, etc.
Would you have consequences to doing this? Are there specific rules, or is this more a GM discretion thing?
It is a GM discretion thing. To me, the reaction would depend on whether the god was okay with lies and whether the false cleric violated the god's tenets.
Such a disguise happened in my current Iron Gods campaign. The 12th-level party wanted to enter the city of Starfall, location of the headquarters of the evil rival Technic League, without the Technic League noticing. It was a city of 30,000 people, so they hid their high-level magic items in a portable hole, hid the portable hole, and walked in the front gate under different names. Except the strix skald decided that she needed a better disguise, since she was probably the only strix in Numeria and she was accompanied by her notable apprentice, a lyrakien skald Leadership cohort.
With a hat of disguise, she changed her appearance to a winged aasimir. Her new identity was a 3rd-level cleric of Desna and her lyrakien companion was sent by Desna to accompany her. The skald personally worshipped Iomedae, but her alignment was Chaotic Good. She spent most of each day visiting temples and helping the sick and poor as if she were a wandering cleric. The cure spells were among her spells known and she could cast two cleric spells a day via Spell Kenning. The lyrakien had solid Knowledge(religion) and tutored her on Desna's creed.
The gods are fairly active in my campaign, and the party saw the avatar of Desna once after this. Desna had not been bothered by the deception, so the goddess did not mention it during the encounter.
You might be interested in checking out the Adventure Module, The Feast of Ravenmoor.
Razmiran Priest says this is not a problem.
/cevah
This is quite the lengthy (and insightful) reply - thanks, Tim! I'll admit I know next to nothing about the lore other than the basics, so I appreciate you taking the time to provide this.
I always found settings where something other than the Gods was answering back (like Ravenloft, for instance), so I'll need to try to read more into the heretic stuff, too!
Glad to help! I never bought or read the 3E BOTR, but eagerly backed the Kickstarter for new version for the 5E crunch, and found the fluff just as compelling. I'll probably be using this pantheon whenever I run another Freeport campaign, so I've been giving this thread's subject quite a bit of thought.
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Considering how many deities have heretical sects that downright pervert the deities' teachings and the schismatics not only go unpunished but are still awarded spells and other divine class abilities, I doubt some loser bard or sorcerer is going to get into trouble for such shenanigans unless they are found out by true believers.
Really depends on the god and setting. Most settings assume deities don't directly interfere except for extreme cases. If in your world they act like greek gods lets the screw yous begin. Otherwise it would vary from the impersonation and diety. Trickster gods might send aid. A good god whom the impersonator has been slaughtering people? Send in the archangels. Rovag? Don't care. Good guy on a good mission infiltrating a good cleregy. Probably a finger wag and a note on their afterlife transcripts. Good guy infiltrating evil cult? Time for some evil outsider retribution
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I also could see a bard pretending to be a cleric of a deity they actually worship being OK. Example story: the party needs to help/heal a NPC who insists on only being healed by a cleric. A bard who worships a CG deity may claim to be a cleric of that deity to lie to the NPC for the NPC's own good. I can't see Cayden or Desna being offended by this, especially if there are real prayers accompanying the arcane magic.
Hmmm.
Look at the question a different way. Not all those who worship a given god are of the cleric class. What's stopping your bard from worshipping the deity of his choice, and fulfilling the spiritual role of a cleric without actually have levels in the cleric class?
Social roles do not have to correspond to class selections.
You don't even really need to get involved in any blasphemy at all. You can be an arcane caster who sincerely worships your chosen deity, who respects the tenets of that faith, who sincerely promotes worship, the whole nine yards. You don't *have* to have cleric levels to be sincere in your faith.
If your concept *does* involve actual blasphemy, meaning that you are using your usurped role to undermine the religion of a given god, I would worry far less about direct divine intervention than about the true followers of that god getting their knickers in a twist.