This Grenadier archetype ability states:
At 2nd level, a grenadier can infuse a weapon or piece of ammunition with a single harmful alchemical liquid or powder, such as alchemist’s fire or sneezing powder, as a move action. This action consumes the alchemical item, but transfers its effect to the weapon in question.
The alchemical item takes full effect on the next creature struck by the weapon, but does not splash, spread, or otherwise affect additional targets. Any extra damage added is treated like bonus dice of damage, and is not doubled on a critical hit. The alchemical treatment causes no harm to the weapon treated, and wears off 1 minute after application if no blow is struck. At 6th level, a grenadier can use her alchemical weapon ability as a swift action. At 15th level, this ability becomes a free action.
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Can I get some feedback as to the best ways to use this ability? I'm currently level 9 and have barely used this ability at all and feel I need some advice on how to maximize it's use. All I've made are acid arrows.
thanks in advance for any help!
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I guess its main function is that of a backup weapon. When you run out of bombs you have to switch to some kind of weapon and at Lvl 9 it is already a swift action and thus does not interfere with your action economy. Another tactical option might be the "Explosive Missile" discovery, where you can add a bomb and an alchemical weapon to your bolts/arrows. Main advantage here is superior reach, but you hit AC instead of touch AC, so it's rather weak.
As to other alchemical weapons than acid, just browse the list for useful stuff. I think there are some useful circumstantial things, that deafen/sicken or trip opponents. Just be sure to craft in every free minute and have some items for every occasion.
Not sure if it's legal, but poisons and drugs are some nasty things to add, drugs espcially because there is no save for the Con/Wis Damage.
The feat Master Alchemist helps a lot with this archetype
You use it as a small part of a massive alchemical attack!
Hybridization Funnel + Acid+Alchemist Fire+Composite Long Bow+Thistle Arrow+Explosive Missile Discovery+Explosive Bomb discovery+deadly aim+ Red Tears poison
Direct Hit
11-18 Bleed = D8(bow)+ 4(str)+ 1(pbs)+ 1(enhancement)+4(deadly aim)
1-6 Fire
1-6 Acid
1-6 Reoccurring Burn
1-6 Reoccurring poison (save negates)
9-34 Fire (bomb)
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11-46 Instant damage and 13-30 periodic damage each round after until they make a fort save, spend an action to stop the bleeding, and spend an action to put out the fire.
Also splash damage.
My Question: Does the Acid/Alchemist Fire fired that way do the Int damage or not (Whithout missile discovery)?
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Rules unclear, consult GM.
When I run games it does, but Other GM's may differ in their interpretation.
The key thing to remember is that you shouldn't add the same attribute twice. So if you are already getting Int to damage, probably not. If you are not already getting Int to damage (say from explosive missile) then probably yes.
It seems with the low DC for sneezing powder for example, that this is only really useful in the early levels of the game. Agreed?
I still don't quite understand how I can take sneezing powder, and via a swift action I can attach it to ammunition aka arrow and then fire it? Do I have to make a craft check or anything? Does anything else need to be done to the sneezing powder or acid ?
Some clarification on how I can even use this via the swift action would be great.
Yes, stuff like sneezing powder only works in low levels. I'd look for things that has no save or has still a decent effect on a successfull save.
No need for a craft check, you simply put the powder on the arrow as a swift action. It's as easy as it sounds.
Prof. Löwenzahn wrote: Another tactical option might be the "Explosive Missile" discovery, where you can add a bomb and an alchemical weapon to your bolts/arrows. Main advantage here is superior reach, but you hit AC instead of touch AC, so it's rather weak. I'm thinking the combination of Alchemal Weapon + Explosive Missile is awesome. It's certainly better to target Touch AC rather than AC, but Alchemists' BAB isn't that bad. This combination also stacks with True Strike and Deadly Aim.
If you really wanted to target Touch AC, you can use Alchemal Weapon + Explosive Missile on Marker Dye Arrows.
The big problem with these is Rate of Fire, but if you are at closer Range, there's still nothing keeping you from taking Rapid Bombs and just pouring it on.
I think exploding arrows are cool.
My grenadier primarily fights with a reach weapon (Dwarven Dorn-Dergar) so I often apply Alchemists Fire, Liquid Ice, Acid Flask, or Holy Water for various elemental/alignment damages, or something like a Ghast Retch Flask if I want to debuff my opponent. The Ghast Retch Flask has a low fortitude save to avoid the nausea, but the sickened condition is applied regardless. I use my bombs as a secondary weapon (Dispelling Bomb or Regular/Force bombs to do AoE if it makes sense and hopefully provoke enemies to approach me and take AoOs)
I always use it to stick on an arrow shot when I'm using explosive missile. Makes a good opening volley shot.
if you'r doing melee it isn't too shabby either.
The extra INT damage thing is... incredibly messy right now.
There are rules against adding the same modifier when it already exists in it.
but there is also a real argument that they're separate effects adding to damage total.
So honestly unless there has been a paizo thing on it (sounds like there hasn't been one from the previous posters) it tends to end up on GM discrepancy.
I'm of the camp that it is separate damage effect. so the expoding arrow gets the damage, and the extra infusion does. But Milage Will Vary. For sure.
If you don't find the extra damage worth it. Look at the myriad of alchemical items and weapons. "harmful" and "alchemical item" is the only requirement. (It does list examples... however those are just examples not the parameters)
So you could fire things like....
the alchemical caltrops,
different elements (albiet way expensive fro what you get),
tangle foot and tangleburns
fireworks,
Things like... Pellet bombs are worth the cost if you craft yourself I think... at least the lower cost one adds a few d6 of damage---effectively buying extra levels of Bomb damage, just of a different type.
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There are a few situations where you can use weird things.. Air crystals for example. Not harmful normally... but if you shoot it into something that breaths water, or in general can't breath air... it should take effect and be harmful to them.
But that tends to fall into GM territory. More so because the item takes effect on the person.. but the item requires it being chewed. but it was alchemically inserted into the target so it is weird. Might just choke them for one round. Mightt do nothing.
Then there are things like.. alchemical cement and alchemical (quick dry thingy for cement.. forget the name)
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One of the meaner things but potentially evil is that Waters of Lamanshu? I forget the name.. it is a lv 2 alchemist extract and makes an item that functions as unholy water (which is just a negative holy water.. which is listed in alchemical weapons last I knew).
It has some nasty effects. If imbibed they get no save. If used with an injection spear or syringe spear, they probably shouldn't get a save (but could be argued). However using with the Alchem Weapon ability it's treated as normal so would afford a save and splash.
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