One of the players in my game is quite eager to get to the point where they can toss buildings with their telekinetic haul.
I just need to know, how easily accomplished is this? Could they potentially uproot a whole dungeon? Cave the ceiling in? I don't wish to be unreasonable since they've generally been a good player but Telekinetic Haul looks as though it could rather easily get out of hand.
If we're being honest, they could do some things that would break the story/map. A good player wouldn't set about trying to do that, but it is RAW.
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As someone currently playing a telekineticist and also eager to get to the point where I can throw buildings, I looked into how much buildings weigh (ok, I googled "how much does a house weigh" and looked at the first result).
This blog was the first result and links to a Seattle Times article that works out a theoretical average weight for a house. Turns out it's about 200 lbs per square foot for a 1 story house.
I think the earliest you can take telekinetic haul is level 4 so the most you'll be able to lift is 4000 lbs which works out to 20 square feet of house. As for dungeons rocks and such seem to weigh about 150-200 lbs per cubic foot so at level 4 I wouldn't even be able to move a whole 5 ft cube (its at this point someone should check my math to make sure I'm in the ballpark...). Trees also weigh a lot it turns out, plus all the dirt that would be pulled out with their roots.
So it seems that at least for several levels theres not too much danger of kineticists reworking the map for a given encounter.
Also, tk haul costs a point of burn so health and the burn limit should help keep it in check.
I think the easy GM kludge is that a house with people in it is an attended object, and thus you can't use your really good mage hand on it.
You could rip the door off the hinges, or batter people with the sofa, but the whole house is going to be an issue.
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I think the easy GM kludge is that a house with people in it is an attended object, and thus you can't use your really good mage hand on it.
You could rip the door off the hinges, or batter people with the sofa, but the whole house is going to be an issue.
If you have TK Finesse, you can sleight of hand to pickpocket someone, so presumably you could Pick Pocket a house. Sure they might spot it, but at that point you have a house.
Well, if they do use homes for ammo for their blast power at least it can't do more damage than the blast normally does, and it'd be action inefficient to lift and drop it (though it seems it'd take quite a few levels if Pocsaclypse's math is correct).
Besides, if they do it in a civilized area they can bet the authorities will be on their ass!
But we'll see, like I said the player's pretty good generally, just excited in this case.
My 2cp: I stick with the phrase "one object", and not let someone tear pieces out of larger objects, which was never intended with telekinesis.
As pocsaclypse points out, buildings weigh a lot. A house made of stone - medieval style, not modern construction - is pretty safe from telekinesis.
As pocsaclypse points out, buildings weigh a lot. A house made of stone - medieval style, not modern construction - is pretty safe from telekinesis.
Very few medieval buildings would have been built with stone- while perhaps easier in a world with magic and telekinesis, most buildings would be made of wood, just as in modern times. If anything, the lack of insulation and thin walls would mean the average house then would be lighter than it is now.
My 2cp: I stick with the phrase "one object", and not let someone tear pieces out of larger objects, which was never intended with telekinesis.
I feel like the fluff of the telekineticist is entirely consistent with "wrap strands of aether around a thing and yank real hard" though, and at least at tables I've been at your approach would result in some really pendantic/philosophical arguments a la "A door is not merely a piece of the house, since you can go to the hardware store and buy a door, you refer to it as 'a door' not 'a house-door' so it's clearly an object unto itself ,etc."
I endorse Rerednaw's approach. You have Knowledge(Engineering) as a class skill, so let the TK player roll their otherwise largely useless knowledge skill to see what parts of the building are easy to rip out and/or would cause collapse.
If we're being honest, they could do some things that would break the story/map. A good player wouldn't set about trying to do that, but it is RAW.
Wanting to grow in power and see what higher levels can do does not make a person a bad player.
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Wanting to grow in power and see what higher levels can do does not make a person a bad player.
Additionally "having really powerful always on telekinesis, and the fun stuff you can do with it" is the entire aesthetic appeal of the telekineticist. You pick that class because you want to hit dudes with other dudes, and throw statues around, and pick people's pockets from across the room.
A GM should either roll with "the TK player picks up the abandoned wagon that an enemy was using for cover and hurls it at someone" or they shouldn't allow the class. Getting mad at this would be like getting mad at the Barbarian for hitting hard or the Rogue being able to sneak past things.
Wanting to grow in power and see what higher levels can do does not make a person a bad player.Additionally "having really powerful always on telekinesis, and the fun stuff you can do with it" is the entire aesthetic appeal of the telekineticist. You pick that class because you want to hit dudes with other dudes, and throw statues around, and pick people's pockets from across the room.
A GM should either roll with "the TK player picks up the abandoned wagon that an enemies was using for cover and hurls it at someone" or they shouldn't allow the class. Getting mad at this would be like getting mad at the Barbarian for hitting hard or the Rogue being able to sneak past things.
here! here!
I feel like we may be reading into this and projecting a little too much. It doesnt seem like OP wants to clamp down on the players fun, just get their head around the scope and scale of what tks can do so they can be properly ready for it.
I feel like we may be reading into this and projecting a little too much. It doesnt seem like OP wants to clamp down on the players fun, just get their head around the scope and scale of what tks can do so they can be properly ready for it.
This. I absolutely want my PC's to have fun, I don't have fun if players aren't having fun. Just not as good at improvising as I'd like to be.