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The sidereal influence ability of Solarians means they can get an insight bonus in a few skills, adding 1d6 to the skills selected. None of the technical starship skills are included, but Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate are all there.
These could make a Solarion a decent captain, but the rules say these bonuses end when the Solarian "enters combat."
Does this refer to starship combat? Or only tactical combat?
The sidereal influence ability of Solarians means they can get an insight bonus in a few skills, adding 1d6 to the skills selected. None of the technical starship skills are included, but Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate are all there.
These could make a Solarion a decent captain, but the rules say these bonuses end when the Solarian "enters combat."
Does this refer to starship combat? Or only tactical combat?
It says combat. Starship and tactical combats are both still combat.
Also IIRC there is a section in the rules that state that unless a class ability or spell specifically says it works in Starship combat, it does not.
The reason I ask is that this ability gives Melee Solarians the chance to perform a role well in space combat. The scaling of DCs means that you really have to have insight bonuses to your skills for them to continue to be meaningful at mid to high levels.
The fact that the solarian class offers such bonuses, but then takes them away during combat seems really odd.
A 10th level Solarian probably has a Charisma around 24 and 10 ranks in - say - intimidate. So his total bonus is around +20. But the DC for a demand action is 35. He makes the check only three times in ten. Even with the +1d6 from Sidereal influence you still don't average a 50% success rate.
Also IIRC there is a section in the rules that state that unless a class ability or spell specifically says it works in Starship combat, it does not.
Does this mean that the insight bonuses that are granted by other classes in things like piloting, computers, or engineering also don't apply during space combat?
Correct, they do not apply unless the ability specifically says it does. The mechanic has one or two such abilities, but I haven't noticed any others.
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Also IIRC there is a section in the rules that state that unless a class ability or spell specifically says it works in Starship combat, it does not.Does this mean that the insight bonuses that are granted by other classes in things like piloting, computers, or engineering also don't apply during space combat?
There is a debate about those bonuses. I believe a lot of these bonuses are passive and apply to the skill check total.
Others are taking a strict RAW approach and say no. We are hoping for clarification soon on the question.
Also IIRC there is a section in the rules that state that unless a class ability or spell specifically says it works in Starship combat, it does not.Does this mean that the insight bonuses that are granted by other classes in things like piloting, computers, or engineering also don't apply during space combat?
I am in the same school as Gary Bush on this. Bonuses to skills are intended to boost those skills in any situation. Otherwise a bonus to piloting for example would be of no use.
I believe the intent was that spells or class abilities like sidereal influence or say Combat Tracking from mechanics are the kind of abilities that need specific allowance to work in Starship Combat.
But I never refuse clarification on rules from the designers if that is what they do.
Correct, they do not apply unless the ability specifically says it does. The mechanic has one or two such abilities, but I haven't noticed any others.
Every class except the soldier has some way of getting an insight bonus to skills as a class feature. Envoy has Expertise. Mechanic has Bypass. Mystic has Channel Skill. Operative has Operative's Edge. Tehnomancers have Techlore.
And of course, Solarians have Sidereal Influence.
...Otherwise a bonus to piloting for example would be of no use.
I agree here. Technically Piloting is also used for vehicles, but that doesn't seem to come up very much, and it seems like a waste to get a bonus to piloting that doesn't work when you fly a spaceship. But it does seem like RAW is against it.
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Why do you believe space combat is not combat?
Combat is a sudden increase in the level of stress (GM says, "Give me an initiative roll") for both the character in game and the player.
In space, the GM says, "You sensors pickup an active sensor nearby." So the captains says "Battle Stations! (or Red Alert)". Stress just went up.
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Honestly, I’d probably houserule that Sidereal Influence always works, even in combat. It seems cruel to just take it away.
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Why do you believe space combat is not combat?
Combat is a sudden increase in the level of stress (GM says, "Give me an initiative roll") for both the character in game and the player.
In space, the GM says, "You sensors pickup an active sensor nearby." So the captains says "Battle Stations! (or Red Alert)". Stress just went up.
They are different things with different rules in different chapters that apply in different situations. They are so different they do not even interact directlly.
Combat in the game has nothing to do with stress. There is no stress mechanic and many entities in the game world would be unable to experence it.
...Otherwise a bonus to piloting for example would be of no use.I agree here. Technically Piloting is also used for vehicles, but that doesn't seem to come up very much, and it seems like a waste to get a bonus to piloting that doesn't work when you fly a spaceship. But it does seem like RAW is against it.
After looking at the Iconic NPCs I note that the insight bonuses are included in their skill bonuses in such a way that a new player would probably not know how to remove those bonuses when space combat happens.
That doesn't prove they are meant to be usable in space combat but it is a point in that direction.
So I'm stating Starship combat is not combat so you can use Sidereal Influence.
But you haven't stated why Starship Combat is not Combat. For all purposes the only difference between Starship Combat and non is the means by which you attack. So here is a question for you, if an enemy decides to bring their starship into the atmosphere and starts firing on your party, who are not in their starship, what are you in, Combat or Starship Combat?
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So I'm stating Starship combat is not combat so you can use Sidereal Influence.But you haven't stated why Starship Combat is not Combat. For all purposes the only difference between Starship Combat and non is the means by which you attack. So here is a question for you, if an enemy decides to bring their starship into the atmosphere and starts firing on your party, who are not in their starship, what are you in, Combat or Starship Combat?
A space ship firing on PCs off ship is a hazard not combat. For all purposes starship combat is different than combat, I am not sure why you think the opposite.
The Solarian's mode ability is an interesting example.
Cannot be used in space combat, can only be used in combat.
I don't think it's conclusive but it is a positive point.
Was this ever answered?
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From the FAQ
Under "Actions" on page 322 it is stated "Class features and items affect crew actions only if specifically noted in the class feature or action." Does this mean I can't benefit from the skill bonus of operative's edge, or an envoy's skill expertise?
No. When actions taken in starship combat call for a skill check, any class feature that grants bonuses to or allows rerolls with the relevant skill applies when using that skill as part of starship combat. This is an exception to the rule.
I'm enjoying the idea of a solarian player going "oh, it's combat then eh?", puttering about for a couple of rounds in a space combat before wormholing the party to the rival ship's bridge and laying waste to the crew.
Teleporting from ship to ship is explicitly not allowed as two object moving at high speed = landing a teleport is just asking to land in space or get splinched.
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From the FAQ
Under "Actions" on page 322 it is stated "Class features and items affect crew actions only if specifically noted in the class feature or action." Does this mean I can't benefit from the skill bonus of operative's edge, or an envoy's skill expertise?
No. When actions taken in starship combat call for a skill check, any class feature that grants bonuses to or allows rerolls with the relevant skill applies when using that skill as part of starship combat. This is an exception to the rule.
Right, but that doesn't answer the current question of whether or not you're "in combat", which is what turns off the Solarian's Sidereal Influence.
Right, but that doesn't answer the current question of whether or not you're "in combat", which is what turns off the Solarian's Sidereal Influence.From the FAQ
Under "Actions" on page 322 it is stated "Class features and items affect crew actions only if specifically noted in the class feature or action." Does this mean I can't benefit from the skill bonus of operative's edge, or an envoy's skill expertise?
No. When actions taken in starship combat call for a skill check, any class feature that grants bonuses to or allows rerolls with the relevant skill applies when using that skill as part of starship combat. This is an exception to the rule.
I think the argument is much better than not that starship combat is combat.
The reasons you can't use class abilities in starship combat is because you're not a ship. Yes, your solarion COULD supernova. its just not going to blow up the other ship because they're not in their 15 foot radius they're 15 kiloyeeks from your position, even when they're in your hex on the map. Blowing up just scorches the pilots chair.
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I'm enjoying the idea of a solarian player going "oh, it's combat then eh?", puttering about for a couple of rounds in a space combat before wormholing the party to the rival ship's bridge and laying waste to the crew.Teleporting from ship to ship is explicitly not allowed as two object moving at high speed = landing a teleport is just asking to land in space or get splinched.
All it takes is for one poorly written feat in a softcover to "slip through" AR :P
Well, with the introduction of rams for your spaceships, I think we can get around the distance and 'the ships are moving too fast!' aspects.
I doubt it. You not only need to teleport onto the ship, you need to teleport to a part of it that isn't a nuclear reactor , a giant magic tesla coil, a whirly exhaust fan or 15 feet of metal bulkhead. Even a ramming and rammed ship are moving kind of fast and probably unpredictably.
I doubt it. You not only need to teleport onto the ship, you need to teleport to a part of it that isn't a nuclear reactor , a giant magic tesla coil, a whirly exhaust fan or 15 feet of metal bulkhead. Even a ramming and rammed ship are moving kind of fast and probably unpredictably.
Well, with the introduction of rams for your spaceships, I think we can get around the distance and 'the ships are moving too fast!' aspects.
It's probably enough to teleport to the surface of the other ship. I dunno why you want to spend space combat trying to sunder an airlock instead of anything useful though.
It's probably enough to teleport to the surface of the other ship. I dunno why you want to spend space combat trying to sunder an airlock instead of anything useful though.
I doubt it. You not only need to teleport onto the ship, you need to teleport to a part of it that isn't a nuclear reactor , a giant magic tesla coil, a whirly exhaust fan or 15 feet of metal bulkhead. Even a ramming and rammed ship are moving kind of fast and probably unpredictably.
It gets the I have no dex but a full BAB vesk out of the gunners chair so a better shot can take up whats arguably the most important seat on the ship