Chronal Quandry


Advice and Rules Questions


Greetings
I have a friend that plays an Elf wizard character that uses the spell Chronal Lance almost exclusively (for his first level spells). It quite literally changes any battle into a piece of cake because nothing can resist the staggered condition. Is the staggered condition really this powerful? Or is there an immunity or resistance that includes the staggered condition by default, such as stun or immunity to non lethal damage?

Silver Crusade

*reads chronal lance*

A 1st level No save stagger?! Against possibly multiple targets?!?!

That spell is broken (and 3pp, not Paizo). Compare to the 3rd level slow

I believe that is the first spell I've seen that grows exponentially more broken as you get higher and higher level, where full attacks/full round actions are even more necessary.


I believe, as a firm believer in game balance, this spell should be 3rd level or possibly higher. Or have a level limit of effectiveness such as the sleep spell, (targets of higher than 6HD are unaffected). Up until a few months ago we were using the 1001 spells as well, but have stopped using it because of the number of spells that were questionable. Perhaps we should stop using the Deep Magic as well, or at the very least get a GM that actually looks into and limits such spells. The Snowball spell is another totally broken spell when taking meta-magic feats into consideration. Nobody in our game uses Magic Missile because snowball is so much better(No save vs the damage, No SR).


Shouldn't this be in third party rules questions?


Sorry, I didn't know there was one for 3rd party. My mistake, I will post it on there.


looking at the spell, yes, that is an incredibly broken spell because it doesn't allow any kind of saving throw and has a very long duration. there are some things that are immune to staggered, constructs come to mind if I remember correctly. honestly this is why one should be wary of 3rd party spells, cause that one is super broken


if that spell wad 2nd or 3rd level, it would be fine, I think. but it is too much as a 1st level.

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armorwars1 wrote:

Sorry, I didn't know there was one for 3rd party. My mistake, I will post it on there.

Threads can almost always be moved so you do not need to repost if this happens. (Merged threads).


It's a bit broken, yes. But a few house tweaks to it and it's fine.


There are quite a few spells that have to make an attack roll to hit don't have saving throws.

It does no damage. and it progresses like magic missile.

The staggered condition allows for a move or standard action each round, so you can take a action to negate the staggered condition if you have an ability that can do that (A Mercy). You aren't completely prevented from acting.

Meh, it's not all that great really. At higher levels, your BAB will slow the ability of this spell from working very effectively.


Touch attacks don't really need a whole lot of BAB to hit most things. Especially the big critters that rely on multiple attacks to deal damage that this will totally shut down.


dragonhunterq wrote:
Especially the big critters that rely on multiple attacks to deal damage that this will totally shut down.

Big critters that can still charge. Creatures that charge can pounce. Creatures that pounce can full attack. Creatures that can have grab on it's 1st multiple attack and can then use grapple on it's next turns.

A few tigers makes the spell not seem so hot...


graystone wrote:
dragonhunterq wrote:
Especially the big critters that rely on multiple attacks to deal damage that this will totally shut down.

Big critters that can still charge. Creatures that charge can pounce. Creatures that pounce can full attack. Creatures that can have grab on it's 1st multiple attack and can then use grapple on it's next turns.

A few tigers makes the spell not seem so hot...

Does your GM always and only throw monsters at you that negate any effective debuffs you use? The spell isn't universally useful, but then, none are. I think it might be a touch too powerful as is for a level one spell, but the staggered condition is actually the most effective against combat specialist types and PCs, which aren't all that common, so, maybe, it isn't all that bad. Multiple missiles, with each staggering for 1 rnd/level does scale quite well, which does help counter greater target "resistance" to the effect.


Pounce won't work because it requires a charge action.A charge action is a full round action and the staggered condition prevents full round actions and only allows a single action like one attack(not a full attack either)or one spell, or you can choose to move instead. This coupled with the fact that there's no save, makes it wacky powerful at levels after 6 when characters/creatures get more than one attack. So, for instance, the targets may only make a single attack at +15 not 3 of +15/+10/+5 and no charging so no pounce same for grapple.

Silver Crusade

You can charge, and thus pounce, while limited to Standard Actions.


Rysky wrote:
You can charge, and thus pounce, while limited to Standard Actions.

Yep, you can still charge when limited to a standard action: the only change is you can only move your land speed and not x2 speed. Pounce only requires a charge and not a full round action.

PRD, Core Rules, Combat: "If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat."

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