Ok, yes, I know it's not the greatest archetype. Humor me. How would you go about building one? What schools would be best for this?
My initial thought is a elf/half-elf (for the elf fcb), and the divination, abjuration, and either conjuration or evocation schools, since having the elemental schools opens up a lot of options there that the standard occultist wouldn't have. Will be more focused on casting, and beefing up my divination jin (since if it dies divination's the easiest one to lose) to provide protection.
Thoughts?
Half-elf, surely. Even a few extra HP from not having a Con penalty could be helpful to beef your jin up a little. You might even consider spending a feat on toughness.
Levels 1-5 you only have one jin and it probably won't be divination. You'll need a school which provides some offensive resonant powers since you won't have a lot of spells/day. I'd choose enchantment/earth - enchantment resonant powers are useful when single-target mind-affecting effects are, and earth spells can cover other uses. Also when your earth jin is beefed up to small size or more it can withdraw underground via earth glide if it needs to.
At level 6 you get a second jin and that could reasonably be divination if you like, thematically air goes with that and would be useful for getting a flight spell among other things. Having a servant with permanent 100' perfect flight has to be useful too.
How far would you be looking to take this though, and what's a likely starting level? For reference, I interpret 'from 1-20' as 1-6.
Lol this will probably be low power, so no higher than 12 and as low as 10, but it'll start at 4 I believe. 20pt buy
OK. Assuming a half-elf with the jin above then I might do feats and spells like this -
1: Toughness, Skill Focus (Sense Motive); Grease, Charm Person
3: Improved Unarmed Strike
4: Glitterdust, Investigative Mind
5: Snake Style
6: Heightened Awareness, Greater Detect Magic, Air Bubble, Aggressive Thundercloud
7: Logical Spell; Stinking Cloud, Control Summoned Creature, Fly, Witness
9: Improved Initiative
10: Stoneskin, Charm Monster, Greater Aggressive Thundercloud, Mind Probe
11: Ambuscading Spell; replace Aggressive Thundercloud w/Resist Energy
The Skill Focus is there so that Mind Probe is effective when you get it, Snake Style is there to take advantage of it along the way.
If variant multiclassing from Pathfinder Unchained is allowed I'd be tempted to take it with Magus. You'd want to take a spell or two to use with spellstrike (maybe shocking grasp and calcific touch) and change/cut back the feats. Maybe Toughness, Logical Spell, Intensified Spell.
OK. Assuming a half-elf with the jin above then I might do feats and spells like this -
1: Toughness, Skill Focus (Sense Motive); Grease, Charm Person
3: Improved Unarmed Strike
4: Glitterdust, Investigative Mind
5: Snake Style
6: Heightened Awareness, Greater Detect Magic, Air Bubble, Aggressive Thundercloud
7: Logical Spell; Stinking Cloud, Control Summoned Creature, Fly, Witness
9: Improved Initiative
10: Stoneskin, Charm Monster, Greater Aggressive Thundercloud, Mind Probe
11: Ambuscading Spell; replace Aggressive Thundercloud w/Resist EnergyThe Skill Focus is there so that Mind Probe is effective when you get it, Snake Style is there to take advantage of it along the way.
If variant multiclassing from Pathfinder Unchained is allowed I'd be tempted to take it with Magus. You'd want to take a spell or two to use with spellstrike (maybe shocking grasp and calcific touch) and change/cut back the feats. Maybe Toughness, Logical Spell, Intensified Spell.
And what can such a character do in battle, and what is his place in the party?
And what can such a character do in battle, and what is his place in the party?
Battlefield control spells, save-or-suck effects from the enchantment resonant powers and seeing everything are the main things you'd do in combat. The thunderclouds are more to give you something to do with your move actions though they may be able to block charge lanes, doors, and narrow halls.
Out of combat charms, knowledges and maybe social skills (you might want to spend a trait or two shifting those from Cha to Int if so) plus the seeing everything bit. The jin might make useful scouts; the witness spell is so you can get info back from them even if they die.
Thank you.
I do not quite understand how the spells of elementary schools are selected in this archetype. What is the attribute of the air school, for example?
Thank you.
I do not quite understand how the spells of elementary schools are selected in this archetype. What is the attribute of the air school, for example?
You select those spells the same way that you would select spells from any other Implement School. For reference, here are the Elemental School spell lists (up to level 6) which include the updates from Planes of Power.
Also statblocks for the Jin to save you some time applying the template.
A Reach Cleric style build is something to consider for a Sha'ir. Use battlefield control spells or summoning options during your turn and make AoOs with a Lucerne Hammer, for example, for some extra damage. The Transmutation School works great with this build. Keep in mind that Size Alteration works on any creature type including your Jin and any Elementals that you might summon. Taking Conjuration later also gives you Servitor for more summoning options.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Gisher you beautiful bastard! Thankyou.
Gisher you beautiful bastard! Thankyou.
You are welcome. :)
I think the spell lists just got updated on AoN recently too.
I'm thinking of using some of the nice Evocation and Conjuration stuff for battlefield control via hazards (as well as dealing damage, of course).
Ball Lightning and Call Lightning/Call Lightning Storm are really nice, and if you Augment your Air Jin to the proper size and have it Whirlwind, that buffs your Call Lightning/Storm spells from d6s to d10s. Occultist gets Etheric Shards available at a lower level than anyone else (Wall of Fire is available on the Fire list, so you can use that instead of your Evocation pick of that level to get it). The Water list can get you Hydraulic Push (to force enemies into hazards), Aqueous Orb, and Cloudkill. Suffocation from the Air list is a good spell for anyone, you can get Fly without using up a Transmutation pick, and you can grab Summon Monster VI for late game. Sirocco is another good one that's on the Air list and the Fire list.
Not sure what order I'd pick all the stuff in, but I know what I like!
The Earth list seems underwhelming to me aside from a couple stand-out spells like Shifting Sand and Calcific Touch.
Order for me is definitely the biggest area of concern. I more or less plan on being a behind the lines character, casting and using reach weapons. But what would work best at lower levels?
I feel like conjuration/earth, then divination/air, and then evocation/fire would be best. Enchantment has always seemed to be less effective to me, since it primarily targets will, which is the highest save that the bbeg is likely to have. And while it might be just as, if not more, effective against lesser foes, I prefer to spec for the boss fight than the dungeon crawl.
Conjuration's certainly possible but there's a lot of overlap with earth. I guess that does mean you can get both glitterdust and create pit though, I waffled a bit about which to get. And the standard action summons will be handy at first.
Your 3rd jin arrives at level 14, a bit after the top of the level range mentioned. I'm not sure blasting (especially with fire) from a 6-level caster would be your best move at that point; your save DCs and damage just won't match up to specialised blasters. Abjuration or transmutation would be better IMO.
As you said, it's a bit after my likely end, so it's not super important. I was mostly thinking of Etheric Shards, which I think is a lovely spell.
Evocation is probably best taken at 1st or 6th, because that's when you'll get use from the straight-up damage spells and Focus Powers. As you go up in levels, you've got lots of Evocation options for battlefield control like Flaming Sphere, Ball Lightning, and Etheric Shards instead of blasting options, and your Evocation Focus Powers are reserved for that quick blast of damage if you need it or for Energy Ward. Conjuration adds even more of those so that you can combine them together.
While almost definitely not optimal, here's an example that becomes doable at 10th level and requires Evocation, Air, and Water as Implement Schools chosen:
Aqueous Orb with trapped enemies inside it in a field of Etheric Shards and zapping one of them with 3d10 damage from Call Lightning each turn as your standard action. Meanwhile the great big Augmented Air Jin in Whirlwind form providing your lightning with that damage dice increase is making another baddie or two's day miserable.
That's two 3rd level spells (Aqueous Orb and Call Lightning), 2 Mental Focus (Augment Jin to Large size), and a single 4th level spell (Etheric Shards). You get 10 rounds of Aqueous Orb (plus more if you have the Conjuration Resonant Power) which deals 2d6 nonlethal damage each round to enemies inside it, 10 rounds of Augment Jin making your buddy pretty burly and capable of Whirlwind, 9 or 10 bolts (1/round) of Call Lightning at either 3d6 or 3d10 each (depending on if your Jin is in Whirlwind form), and unless the enemies stay perfectly still and don't even get attacked, Etheric Shards deals 1d8 Piercing and Slashing damage and requires Reflex saves to avoid stacking Bleed damage. And the enemies can't even SEE the shards.
Also keep in mind that Etheric Shards can take up a LOT of space and last for a LONG time, so you're probably making life difficult for other enemies at the same time, and you can target anybody with that bolt of lightning each round.
By 13th level you can swap Call Lightning to Call Lightning Storm for 5d6/5d10 bolts and either use 1 less Mental Focus on Augment Jin to Large size, or spend the same 2 points to make your Jin Huge size.
This is, of course, not taking into account how many Reflex saves for half damage are made on the Call Lightning attacks, whether or not the enemies get out of the Aqueous Orb or the Whirlwind, what feats you might have modifying all this, or what your allies are doing.