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Ecliptic12 |
I can't seem to find any info in my book... what effect does the sound of gunfire have in play? If I assassinate someone 2 rooms away from other people using a small arm, will everyone be alerted automatically? Is there a silencer fusion or some other way to change the sound your weapons produce?
Hm
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Porridge |
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I think, as in Pathfinder, the default assumption is that someone nearby has to make a Perception check to "hear the sound of battle". And as in Pathfinder pre-Ultimate Intrigue, they don't say anything about how to adjudicate someone who's trying to be stealthy as they attack, suggesting something like an opposed Stealth vs Perception check (potentially with modifiers of some kind) is the natural way to adjudicate this.
Now, in Ultimate Intrigue, they effectively ruled out this way of handling things, by introducing (very hard to get) feats which effectively allowed you to do this (make an opposed Stealth check to remain unnoticed, instead of more or less being automatically noticed). Ugh.
But happily, no such feats have yet to appear in Starfinder. So the natural way of adjudicating this most of us were working with in Pathfinder (pre-Ultimate Intrigue) can sill be employed.
As far as the effects of silencers in general, that sounds like something you could either blend into the opposed Stealth check (e.g., creatively using things on hand (like your shirt) to dampen the sound of the shot, perhaps with a penalty), or that you (qua GM) could introduce as a further piece of equipment that lets you make quieter shots. But as far as I know, silencers didn't make it into the CRB equipment lists (which is fair enough, given the space restrictions they were working with!).
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voska66 |
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I think guns would be much quieter. A magnetic rail gun for example would probably replace tradition combustion fire arms. You can't really shoot gun in space with no oxygen. So they would come up with better guns for space. Instead of expanding gases magnetic rail guns powered with battery pack. Not sure what the book has, don't have it in front of me but I'd assume basic slug through type weapons don't rely on combustion to work.
Of course you would weapon you just can't silence just like today. You can silence a grenade.
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1 person marked this as a favorite. |
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You can shoot guns in space. The cartridge has an excellerent in it in place of o2, so the gunpowder explodes in space. The real issue with firing a gun in space is the lack of gravity. Since the shooter isn't planted on the ground half the force propels the shooter backwards and the other half propels the bullet cutting velocity nearly in half.
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Claxon |
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Just some simple math for you.
Force = mass * acceleration.
Due to the sheer difference in mass, the person will not be accelerated significantly (even in zero gravity).
So your idea about cutting velocity in half isn't correct.
That said, you do have a point that ballistic cartridges in the future could contain a source of solid oxygen sources, getting around the problem of needing atmospheric oxygen for the normal function of (Earth) firearms.
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Zwordsman |
How do I silence my sonic rifle or my plasma cannon?
Can't help you with the plasma. Outside of my realm of knowledge (thoug hsome plasma today isn't that loud)
Often the violent damage sonic style weapons are often not the kind of vibration that people naturally can hear. Usually very high or very low but generally not presented in a way that folks hear it.
Ear piercing scream from pathfinder is unusual in that concept. but yakno that was magic. but this is tech.
so honestly some of those sonic based weapons are likely the kind you don't hear at all naturally.
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Claxon |
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You don't need atmospheric oxygen in current firearms, the combustion components are already built into the cartridge. It is a sealed package. You don't magically add oxygen from the atmosphere when you fire a bullet.
After a little searching seems you are correct.
I had figured oxygen would be required for the initial reaction, and that the round isn't sealed solidly enough that the vacuum of space would remove any oxygen sealed inside. However, it seems that modern firearm rounds already contain oxidizing chemicals which do not require atmospheric oxygen at all to function.
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Noticing gunfire varies in different games. The archaic firearms in Pathfinder would be quite loud. While I can't find rules for how loud a Perception DC -10 feels right. With the +1/10 feet, anyone within 100 feet hears it automatically (DC 0). Most people could hear it at 200 feet (DC 10). Depending on the campaign style they may not know what the sound is.
Starfinder has guns everywhere and in a wide array of types. Anyone would know (or at least have a good idea) what they sound like. The Silence spell didn't make the cut so someone would have to research it now. But a weapon augment that reduces the noise of firing doesn't seem out of place in the setting. There is an oil of silence for Pathfinder so we have a precedent.
Silencing a sonic weapon would likely break the weapon or the enchantment. Being horrifically, damagingly loud is the entire point. Even if RAW it would work, I'd houserule it that you can't use sonic weapon in a Silence area.
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EC Gamer Guy |
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Gun powder will actually work with no atmospheric oxygen. The oxygen used in the combustion is chemically bound in the gun powder. Since guns are fairly airtight to get the best acceleration, air wouldn't get into the breech efficiently enough.
I think guns would be much quieter. A magnetic rail gun for example would probably replace tradition combustion fire arms. You can't really shoot gun in space with no oxygen. So they would come up with better guns for space. Instead of expanding gases magnetic rail guns powered with battery pack. Not sure what the book has, don't have it in front of me but I'd assume basic slug through type weapons don't rely on combustion to work.
Of course you would weapon you just can't silence just like today. You can silence a grenade.
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EC Gamer Guy |
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Just one real life add-on. Most, if not all, projectiles weapons are going to accelerate their ammo past the speed of sound. Even with a silent weapon, which suppressors don't currently achieve, you get a sonic boom from the bullet.
On the other hand, lasers are very quiet once you discount the cooling system.
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baggageboy |
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Regardless, I think the difficulty in trying to implement "silenced" gunfire of any sort in the game stems from two things, one the vast variety of weapons involved, and two from the troupes that accompany the genre.
Here's a couple of examples of the first problem:
Laser guns, plasma guns, cryo guns, and sonic guns are all different though "energy" energy guns. It wouldn't really be reasonable to apply a blanket ruling on how these guns audibly behave.
Heck, there's even difficulties with "projectile" weapons. You've got things that seem like regular modern firearms as well as dart guns, rail guns, missile guns, etc.
Now to deal with the second issue, the troupes of the genre:
So lasers... do they make noise in real life? not usually, but do laser guns make AWESOME pew pew noises in movies/books/comics? YOU BETCHA! So do we try to force a science FICTION based game into reality? Nah I don't think so.
I think the easiest solution is to do a blanket statement that all ranged weapons make noise. Then you add two things in for those that want their gun to be silent. Specific exceptions to this in weapon properties, something like "Silenced: any weapon with this property has no audible indication of firing" and a fusion that because it's "magic" gives this property to a weapon. You can even put an exception on the fusion for things with the explode property if you don't like the idea of silent rocket launchers. Either way it would be fine because MAGIC! No need to explain physics :D
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EC Gamer Guy |
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Thanks to Baggageboy I remembered some canon from WH40k. They mention in there that many of the lasguns for Guard don't make noise. So to let the troops feel like they are actually fighting most of the guns have small speakers installed to make "shooty noises" when the trigger is pulled.
Here's another "reality" bit to add, a laser rifle doesn't even need to have a visible 'bolt' come out. It could be x-ray, UV, IR and still be effective. I wonder at time why we don't have people using microwave guns for assassination, besides it taking a few seconds to cook someone's innards.
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MakuTheDark |
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Thanks to Baggageboy I remembered some canon from WH40k. They mention in there that many of the lasguns for Guard don't make noise. So to let the troops feel like they are actually fighting most of the guns have small speakers installed to make "shooty noises" when the trigger is pulled.
Here's another "reality" bit to add, a laser rifle doesn't even need to have a visible 'bolt' come out. It could be x-ray, UV, IR and still be effective. I wonder at time why we don't have people using microwave guns for assassination, besides it taking a few seconds to cook someone's innards.
Why no microwave assassin gun?
Apparently parkas and hoodies could protect ya from them.