Could I have the most optimized statblock for a Half-Orc barbarian. Looking for big DPR. Also looking for suggestions for traits (2) and favored class bonus and feats. If you recommend a specific archetype please let me know. Thanks for all your help.
Get Orc Atavism for a +4 str and -2 to a Mind stat.
Str >>>> Dex=Con > Wis=Int > Cha
Sacred Tattoo / Fate's Favored is a nice +2 boost to saves at level 1, and any time you get a Luck bonus from any source that bonus is increased by +1 with Fate's Favored.
Orc Atavism replacea the usual orc ability score bknuses so it's only a +2 to strength
Well, falchions are your friend. High crits when your main damage bonus is something that easily gets multiplied by crits. Nodachis might give you 0.5 more damage, but you have to deal with your half orc going one winged angel with his big katana.......
Going with a combo of superstitious and beast totem related rage powers are the typical advice. Beast totem gives you pounce at level 10 (ie- more full attacks- the thing almost every melee character wants), while superstitious both adds to saves vs. spells and it is a prerequisite to a rage power that does more damage against creatures that can cast spells (note- this includes the SLAs that you see on pretty much everything at higher levels).
Cornugon smash+hurtful is nice too for feats. cornugon smash gives you a free intimidate check when you hit with power attack. Hurtful lets you spend a swift action to get another attack on an enemy that you intimidated. As always, more attacks=more damage. This could be an early way to get more damage in before you get pounce (since it can turn on at level 7, and lets you get 2 attacks in after a move).
ya Orc Atavism doesn't seem good unless its +4 total to STR and -2 to a Mental stat. But it says it replaces ability score bonuses.
If this is the case should I get Toothy?
ya Orc Atavism doesn't seem good unless its +4 total to STR and -2 to a Mental stat. But it says it replaces ability score bonuses.
If this is the case should I get Toothy?
I'd only go toothy if you grab a reach weapon (which is also a good way to get damage as a str type- getting AoOs from enemies crossing your line is always good since more attacks=more damage). But that can be a certain tactical flare that some might not want when they just want smashy. But if you go this route, then you want a nice chomp so you can punish casters that try to get cute and stand in your dead spot while trying to avoid AoOs for casting near you.
No, toothy should be avoided since it doesn't play nice with your 2 handed weapons (it does BAB-5 and 1/2 str since it is switched to 'secondary' status). Instead, many people switch in the 'sacred tattoo' trait instead. This trait gives you a +1 luck bonus to all saves. Kinda modest, I know... but there is a trait (Fate's favored) that raises all luck bonuses by 1. So you can get +2 on all saves if you get both the tattoo and fate's favored.
ya Orc Atavism doesn't seem good unless its +4 total to STR and -2 to a Mental stat. But it says it replaces ability score bonuses.
If this is the case should I get Toothy?
I'd only go toothy if you grab a reach weapon (which is also a good way to get damage as a str type- getting AoOs from enemies crossing your line is always good since more attacks=more damage). But that can be a certain tactical flare that some might not want when they just want smashy. But if you go this route, then you want a nice chomp so you can punish casters that try to get cute and stand in your dead spot while trying to avoid AoOs for casting near you.
No, toothy should be avoided since it doesn't play nice with your 2 handed weapons (it does BAB-5 and 1/2 str since it is switched to 'secondary' status). Instead, many people switch in the 'sacred tattoo' trait instead. This trait gives you a +1 luck bonus to all saves. Kinda modest, I know... but there is a trait (Fate's favored) that raises all luck bonuses by 1. So you can get +2 on all saves if you get both the tattoo and fate's favored.
Great advice point noted, hes looking for maximum smash. Toothy will be avoided. Will get Fates favored + Sacred Tattoo. In terms of regular traits does anyone suggest Berserker of the Society or Mindlessly Cruel? or are they not very good?
This is rather unorthodox, but taking the Adopted trait with Enlightened Warrior allows for a single level of Unchained Monk, which allows for making a full two handed flurry with a Monk sword. Armor doesn't suffer much with bonus Dodge and a decent WIS, which is good to have anyhow. Pairs well with the pounce and bonus AC from Beast Totem.
Orc Atavism replacea the usual orc ability score bknuses so it's only a +2 to strength
Orcs get a +2 to any stat. Orc Atavism allows them to go +2 and -2 again. So, +4 Str, -2 Cha would be my choice.
Anyone have any suggestions on stat allocation?
Get Orc Atavism for a +4 str and -2 to a Mind stat.
Str >>>> Dex=Con > Wis=Int > Cha
Sacred Tattoo / Fate's Favored is a nice +2 boost to saves at level 1, and any time you get a Luck bonus from any source that bonus is increased by +1 with Fate's Favored.
Yes
YesGet Orc Atavism for a +4 str and -2 to a Mind stat.
Str >>>> Dex=Con > Wis=Int > Cha
Sacred Tattoo / Fate's Favored is a nice +2 boost to saves at level 1, and any time you get a Luck bonus from any source that bonus is increased by +1 with Fate's Favored.
Hows this:
STR 19
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 10
CHA 7
This is after the +2 half orc bonus
If i take Orc Atavism I cant get Sacred Tattoo :( Which ones better?
With Orc Atavism the numbers would be:
STR 20
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 10
CHA 7
So it comes down to the saving throw bonuses or the raw damage doesn't it?
Thoughts on Berserker of the Society?
Thoughts on Berserker of the Society?
Not a big deal, you get enough rage rounds from leveling. I'd take tusked for the bite attack personally.
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First: I'm assuming Pathfinder Society creation rules, with 20 point buy. If not please feel free to correct me.
I personally like the Invulnerable Rager archetype. You trade away your Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge for advancing your barbarian DR by 1/- every 2 levels.
This combines especially well with the Stalwart feat, and is tailor-made for this class too as it specifically stacks with your class DR.
Now, both of these are explicitly defensive abilities, but remember, your DPR drops to zero when you're dead.
Thus, my Half-Orc Barbarian build would be as follows:
Alternate Racial Traits: Mystic, Dusksight
Class: Barbarian
Archetype: Invulnerable Rager
Stats (20 Point Buy)
Str: 15 +2 Racial
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 12
Cha: 8
Favored Class: Barbarian
Favored Class Bonus: +1/3 to the bonus from the superstition rage power each level
Traits: Adopted: Wary of Danger, Fate's Favored
Feats: Endurance (Shaman's Apprentice), Diehard (1st)
So a few notes regarding the traits and alternate class features. Mystic gets you a free feat towards the prerequisites for Stalwart and a +1 luck bonus to all saves. This is by far the best package for you. Due to the +1 luck bonus, you want the Fate's Favored trait to double this as well. The final trait is simply a way to get +2 initiative without spending your combat trait, which you'll want later. You'll never regret having a higher bonus to initiative. The final alternate racial trait is Dusksight, which trades your racial weapon proficiencies away for low-light vision, a good trade considering you're already proficient with martial weapons and the exotics aren't really worth worrying over. With low-light vision, you can see 80 ft. distance by torchlight in darkness, better than your own 60 ft. Darkvision.
At first level you'd want to buy a guard dog for 25 gp with your starting wealth. This lets you use Handle Animal to get it to defend you, meaning you're essentially getting an extra small attack each round from your dog against anything attacking you that's not an unnatural creature. More attacks mean more DPR. You'll likely want to buy a collection of throw-away junk weapons such as a spear and longspear, sling and so forth.
You take Diehard at 1st level for your feat because this means even if you get knocked into negative, you're not out of the game yet. It's the best timing for taking the feat and might end up saving you from an unlucky critical hit.
2nd
Rage Powers: Reckless Abandon
Your first point of DR comes online. You want to upgrade to a breastplate, and my suggestion is to grab a golf bag of non-masterwork weapons to go along with your newfound wealth. I like to carry a light flail and heavy wooden shield for defensive options, and a lucerne hammer and greatsword for a reach weapon and two-handed, respectively.
The reason you'd get a greatsword instead of a falchion is because you want to be drinking potions of Enlarge Person pretty much constantly. This is by far the biggest DPR boost you can get at this level. A greatsword goes from 2d6 to 3d6, a falchion only goes from 2d4 to 2d6. That's 3.5 points increase average damage per hit from the greatsword vs. only 2 points for the falchion. Since you don't have improved critical or a no-fail attack bonus to back up your critical confirmation, you're better off with straight base damage bonus for now. Later on, when investing into your main magic weapon, reconsider depending on if you plan to get Improved Critical or not.
So your typical combat begins with you drinking your potion of Enlarge Person as your standard, then moving to a tactical position as a move action, drawing your lucerne hammer as you move. This means you've got a large creature's reach weapon threat area, and you'll probably get an attack of opportunity against anything that tries to close into melee range with you. Once you've got enemies close, drop your hammer, draw your greatsword and get slashing.
Also, upgrade your guard dog to a riding dog. Now you have an extra attack each round with a trip attempt on top!
3rd
Feats: Combat Expertise
This level you pick up the feat to pump your DR with Stalwart. You can also consider using this tactically to offset your AC loss from rage too. With this and the Reckless Abandon rage power, you can choose either to boost attack or AC each round as needed. You begin investing into saving for a +1 Furious weapon and mithral breastplate.
4th
Rage Power: Superstition
+1 Strength
More strength! More DR! Better saves! You're also able to buy a combat trained bison now, which is a steal at 75gp. Make sure you're drinking your Enlarge Person potions before you rage, otherwise you're gonna be embarrassing yourself when you have to save against your own potion.
5th
Feat: Stalwart
There's two schools of thinking regarding Stalwart. One says you can stack the dodge bonuses of fighting defensively and Combat Expertise together before adding them to your DR with Stalwart. The other says they're two different sources and therefore don't stack. In the first case you can get DR 7/- by using both at this level, provided you've got the 3 ranks necessary in Acrobatics. Otherwise, just use Combat Expertise if your GM rules they don't stack. This plus Reckless Abandon means you're trading -2 AC for +2 DR, which is a good trade-off to take 4 points of damage off every hit against you. If you got your +1 Furious weapon by now, you're likely not having any trouble hitting and killing in one blow.
6th
Rage Power: Witch Hunter
Iterative attacks! Your pets are probably dead by now, but you don't really care any more since you now have your own second attack each round. You're saving towards a strength belt and laugh at saving throws with +5 morale from Superstition and +2 luck from Sacred Tattoo in addition to your base saves and cloak. You probably have in the range of +18 Fort, +13 Ref and +12 Will against spells.
7th
Feat: Power Attack or Second Chance
So, here's the choice. Do you have almost zero trouble hitting even on your iterative attack? If so, Power Attack is good for this level. You might finally be reaching the point where stuff isn't getting one-hit-KO'ed and wouldn't mind an extra 6 damage per hit. Frankly, taking this feat earlier is a bit of a waste, since you're likely to turn almost anything you hit into a greasy smear on the ground with one blow even without the extra damage. On the other hand, Second Chance is very attractive for a second bite at the cherry if your first hit misses. Both solid choices, with Power Attack coming out ahead if you play a mobile, charge-heavy playstyle, and Second Chance winning if you typically make a lot of full round attacks.
8th
Rage Power: Clear Mind
+1 Intelligence
Will's your weakest save and things are getting nasty, so a free reroll is a good deal at this level. Of course, you could go for Spell Sunder instead, though you're not feat focused to make this an auto-success, and combat maneuvers don't play nice with Combat Expertise, which you'd use for DR. By boosting your intelligence you get the opportunity here to dump an instant 8 retroactive skill ranks into something. I personally like Use Magic Device here, in preparation for next level.
9th
Feat: Improved Critical or Additional Traits
Straight DPR or utility? If you go Improved Critical and a +1 furious falchion, you're gonna be hitting big, big criticals. On the other hand is the Use Magic Device option. Pragmatic Activator trait for Int to UMD, and either Underlying Principles for worshipping Nethys or Arcane Archivist for being Dark Archive faction get you UMD as a class skill. The Season 9 Dark Archive faction card also gives UMD as a class skill with four goals too, meaning you could earn this via the faction card and get a free combat trait like Threatening Defender or Accellerated Drinker. There's something deliciously wrong about a superstitious barbarian witch hunter that casts spells from wands that tickles my sense of irony oh so well. Still, a wand of lead blades as a standard, a potion of enlarge person as a move and a minute of gory awesome afterwards sounds fun.
10th
Rage Power: Eater of Magic
I'm a big fan of rerolls. This is simply must-have material, especially as you have a +7 morale bonus from superstition, assuming you're spending your favored class bonus here. It's the next best thing to having "immune to saves" as a class feature.
11th
Feat: Improved Stalwart
DR 11/- all day, every day. An average CR 11 enemy does between 23 to 32 damage a hit. You're ignoring a third to half of this damage. Yes, it's more defensive than offensive, but it's an amazing return on investment. Alternatively, go for the feat you skipped at 7th or 9th to bump up your DPR.
My question, is this for an Unchained Barbarian or the Normal Barbarian?
Normal barbarian Louise
18(20) or 18(20)
12 14
14 15
8 8
12 10
7 7take fates favored trait, and sacred tattoo, put all favored class bonuses into the human favored class bonus for better superstition get carefully hidden for +1 will save and +2 to saves vs divination and start out with power attack also get dragon sight(replaces the normal dark vision and the +2 intimidate for a 120 range dark vision)
Ok sounds good, so no need to get Reactionary? Carefully Hidden is superior?
Normal barbarian Louise
I think the Unchained Version is easier than the Normal Barbarian. I also feel the Normal Barbarian needs the Feat Raging Vitality and that it is a feat tax. Where as the Unchained does not need the feat to survive or custom the point buy around the feat.
What is the point buy 20 still?
Ya 20. Are the archetypes from the normal barbarian worth it?
Ya 20. Are the archetypes from the normal barbarian worth it?
Well, some GMs allow you to use the Archetypes. I see nothing wrong with using Invulnerable rager with the Unchained Barb. Nothing much different about danger sense and trap sense they do the same thing but Danger sense adds perception bonus against foes...so the Unchained actually gives up slightly more to take the Archetype. That is why I would allow it. I am sure if you ask the DM he would agree.
Half orcs don't qualify for the extra feat at level 1 like humans do they?
Half orcs don't qualify for the extra feat at level 1 like humans do they?
No that is what being human is all about.
18(20) or 18(20)
12 14
14 15
8 8
12 10
7 7take fates favored trait, and sacred tattoo, put all favored class bonuses into the human favored class bonus for better superstition get carefully hidden for +1 will save and +2 to saves vs divination and start out with power attack also get dragon sight(replaces the normal dark vision and the +2 intimidate for a 120 range dark vision)
Is the 20 STR worth it more than:
STR 19
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 10
CHA 7
I think ur numbers go over the 20 pt buy? :S
These numbers work:
STR 20
DEX 13
CON 15
INT 7
WIS 11
CHA 7
Should Dex be higher for Come and Get Me?
18(20) or 18(20)
12 14
14 15
8 8
12 10
7 7take fates favored trait, and sacred tattoo, put all favored class bonuses into the human favored class bonus for better superstition get carefully hidden for +1 will save and +2 to saves vs divination and start out with power attack also get dragon sight(replaces the normal dark vision and the +2 intimidate for a 120 range dark vision)
Is the 20 STR worth it more than:
STR 19
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 10
CHA 7Ur numbers go over the 20 pt buy.
I hardly ever go full 20 on martial Characters. On casters maybe just depends on the TYPE of caster...but you need other stats. 19 after racial is plenty.
I hardly ever go full 20 on martial Characters. On casters maybe just depends on the TYPE of caster...but you need other stats. 19 after racial is plenty.18(20) or 18(20)
12 14
14 15
8 8
12 10
7 7take fates favored trait, and sacred tattoo, put all favored class bonuses into the human favored class bonus for better superstition get carefully hidden for +1 will save and +2 to saves vs divination and start out with power attack also get dragon sight(replaces the normal dark vision and the +2 intimidate for a 120 range dark vision)
Is the 20 STR worth it more than:
STR 19
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 10
CHA 7Ur numbers go over the 20 pt buy.
How does the 19 STR build above look?
How does the 19 STR build above look?I hardly ever go full 20 on martial Characters. On casters maybe just depends on the TYPE of caster...but you need other stats. 19 after racial is plenty.18(20) or 18(20)
12 14
14 15
8 8
12 10
7 7take fates favored trait, and sacred tattoo, put all favored class bonuses into the human favored class bonus for better superstition get carefully hidden for +1 will save and +2 to saves vs divination and start out with power attack also get dragon sight(replaces the normal dark vision and the +2 intimidate for a 120 range dark vision)
Is the 20 STR worth it more than:
STR 19
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 10
CHA 7Ur numbers go over the 20 pt buy.
I prefer 18,14,15,10,12,8 myself. Bump Con at 4 and throw the rest into STR.
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I would like to add one quick thing before I make recommendations.
Over optimizing for damage is how barbarians die a take a few friends with them
Barbarians are a actually a well rounded melee class if you build the correctly. This is why half of all barbarian are superstitious witch hunters, with pounce.
16+2/ 14 / 15 / 10 / 12 / 7
is a perfectly good stat spread for a barbarian.
With that out of the way.
I love spell sunder. At some point you will face mirror image, invisibility, anti-life shield etc. This is your solution. Grab an animal mask for scent and a gore attack find the invisible caster and blow up their invisibility. Throw in strength surge so you never fail (expect ones).
Unexpected Strike is a lot of free attacks. This will keep your DPR way up.
Reckless Abandon trades AC for attack if you really want to play full on barbarian mode.
Knockdown/back and savage dirty trick have there place.
I would like to add one quick thing before I make recommendations.
Over optimizing for damage is how barbarians die a take a few friends with them
Barbarians are a actually a well rounded melee class if you build the correctly. This is why half of all barbarian are superstitious witch hunters, with pounce.
16+2/ 14 / 15 / 10 / 12 / 7
is a perfectly good stat spread for a barbarian.
With that out of the way.
I love spell sunder. At some point you will face mirror image, invisibility, anti-life shield etc. This is your solution. Grab an animal mask for scent and a gore attack find the invisible caster and blow up their invisibility. Throw in strength surge so you never fail (expect ones).
Unexpected Strike is a lot of free attacks. This will keep your DPR way up.
Reckless Abandon trades AC for attack if you really want to play full on barbarian mode.
Knockdown/back and savage dirty trick have there place.
Nice build, is that 12 will for the +1 save? Is it worth it even if going favored class bonus Superstitious and Sacred Tattoo with Fates Favored?
I would like to add one quick thing before I make recommendations.
Over optimizing for damage is how barbarians die a take a few friends with them
Barbarians are a actually a well rounded melee class if you build the correctly. This is why half of all barbarian are superstitious witch hunters, with pounce.
16+2/ 14 / 15 / 10 / 12 / 7
is a perfectly good stat spread for a barbarian.
With that out of the way.
I love spell sunder. At some point you will face mirror image, invisibility, anti-life shield etc. This is your solution. Grab an animal mask for scent and a gore attack find the invisible caster and blow up their invisibility. Throw in strength surge so you never fail (expect ones).
Unexpected Strike is a lot of free attacks. This will keep your DPR way up.
Reckless Abandon trades AC for attack if you really want to play full on barbarian mode.
Knockdown/back and savage dirty trick have there place.
I agree with all of this.
The only feat not mentioned in this thread is Raging Brutality as your 13th level feat. I highly recommend it for burning down BBEGs quickly.
But Spell Sunder is godly as is just being a sunder machine. FIghters can do s%*~ when you break apart their main weapon they took all them feats for. Archers are not so scary if you charge them and sunder the bow. High AC and in full-plate? Not anymore!
I'm also a huge fan of COmbat Reflexes and Come and Get Me rage power. Which is partially why I like the 14 Dex so you can get it higher when CaGM comes online.
Nice build, is that 12 will for the +1 save? Is it worth it even if going favored class bonus Superstitious and Sacred Tattoo with Fates Favored?I would like to add one quick thing before I make recommendations.
Over optimizing for damage is how barbarians die a take a few friends with them
Barbarians are a actually a well rounded melee class if you build the correctly. This is why half of all barbarian are superstitious witch hunters, with pounce.
16+2/ 14 / 15 / 10 / 12 / 7
is a perfectly good stat spread for a barbarian.
With that out of the way.
I love spell sunder. At some point you will face mirror image, invisibility, anti-life shield etc. This is your solution. Grab an animal mask for scent and a gore attack find the invisible caster and blow up their invisibility. Throw in strength surge so you never fail (expect ones).
Unexpected Strike is a lot of free attacks. This will keep your DPR way up.
Reckless Abandon trades AC for attack if you really want to play full on barbarian mode.
Knockdown/back and savage dirty trick have there place.
It is always worth it to bump your weakest saves. It also affects Perception which SHOULD be on your skill list.
Then at level 4 take +1 to Con to get to 16 and then start increasing STR all the way ok. People talk about Pounce what is that exactly and how does one get it? Is it the gold standard for barbarians?
Pounce is the ability to make a full attack on a charge. You can get it at 10th level by taking the greater beast totem rage power. It is a huge benefit.
Ah thank you. I will write a separate post for recommended rage powers.
I would like to add one quick thing before I make recommendations.
Over optimizing for damage is how barbarians die a take a few friends with them
Barbarians are a actually a well rounded melee class if you build the correctly. This is why half of all barbarian are superstitious witch hunters, with pounce.
16+2/ 14 / 15 / 10 / 12 / 7
is a perfectly good stat spread for a barbarian.
With that out of the way.
I love spell sunder. At some point you will face mirror image, invisibility, anti-life shield etc. This is your solution. Grab an animal mask for scent and a gore attack find the invisible caster and blow up their invisibility. Throw in strength surge so you never fail (expect ones).
Unexpected Strike is a lot of free attacks. This will keep your DPR way up.
Reckless Abandon trades AC for attack if you really want to play full on barbarian mode.
Knockdown/back and savage dirty trick have there place.
Unexpected Strike seems very good as does Spell Sunder. Can this type of barbarian you suggest out damage a two handed fighter? I should state this character is for a home brew game up to level 18
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I think a +1 to will saves is worth it. Remember you can make up for fewer points of damage with an single extra attack or better positioning. But you only need to be paralyzed once to be coup de graced and die. I take iron will on most martial classes.
Louise Bishop and my stat arrays also give 2 more skill points per level. This makes it much easier to have a few good skills. For the hurtful build you will want intimidate. Perception should be invested in as well. Now there are 2 or 3 other maxed skills to play with so out of combat is not a boring slog. Sense motive would mean you know when to intimidate and you can track your prey (good thematically with beast totem).
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Unexpected Strike seems very good as does Spell Sunder. Can this type of barbarian you suggest out damage a two handed fighter? I should state this character is for a home brew game up to level 18I would like to add one quick thing before I make recommendations.
Over optimizing for damage is how barbarians die a take a few friends with them
Barbarians are a actually a well rounded melee class if you build the correctly. This is why half of all barbarian are superstitious witch hunters, with pounce.
16+2/ 14 / 15 / 10 / 12 / 7
is a perfectly good stat spread for a barbarian.
With that out of the way.
I love spell sunder. At some point you will face mirror image, invisibility, anti-life shield etc. This is your solution. Grab an animal mask for scent and a gore attack find the invisible caster and blow up their invisibility. Throw in strength surge so you never fail (expect ones).
Unexpected Strike is a lot of free attacks. This will keep your DPR way up.
Reckless Abandon trades AC for attack if you really want to play full on barbarian mode.
Knockdown/back and savage dirty trick have there place.
It depends, likely the fighter has better static numbers but has to make up for a pounce. That will take a few rounds. If there are more enemies that you have to move to you will stay a head. If your gm uses smart casters you will be way ahead, while the fighter takes 2 turns to remove mirror images you clear them in one attack and then land the rest of your attacks. This can be done on a pounce.
This is how I think of these things. The fighter is better in the situations that are easiest to deal with (starting adjacent with no magical defenses). The barbarian is better in adverse situations. You have to decide which you want to be better in and that depends on the GM.
In PFS most players I see die die from lack of preparation for odd encounters not because the melee guys need to to 15 more damage, but YYMV.
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No, you can't do that.Orc Atavism replacea the usual orc ability score bknuses so it's only a +2 to strengthOrcs get a +2 to any stat. Orc Atavism allows them to go +2 and -2 again. So, +4 Str, -2 Cha would be my choice.
Some half-orcs have much stronger orc blood than human blood. Such half-orcs count as only half-orcs and orcs (not also humans) for any effect related to race. They gain a +2 bonus to Strength and a –2 penalty to one mental ability score of their choice. Finally, they gain the ferocity universal monster ability. This racial trait replaces the half-orc’s usual racial ability score modifiers, as well as intimidating, orc blood, and orc ferocity.
IMO this is mostly a wash: monster ferocity lets you keep fighting below 0hp indefinitely while orc ferocity lets you do it for one round.
~ ~ ~
STR is overrated; what's important are bonuses.
comparison:
STR+21 (18>20,bump 4th)
DEX:14
CON:14 (6th-level barbarian)
INT:07 (18,14,14,11,07,07 20pt array)
WIS:11
CHA:07
...this commonly-seen PFS character-sheet specimen is +7 to attack off STR & Reckless Abandon+2).
______
STR+18 (15>17,bump 4th)
DEX:14
CON:16 (barbarian2/warpriest4)
INT:12 (16,15,14,12,10,07 20pt array)
WIS:14
CHA:07
...assume both builds contain Sacred Tattoo and Fate's Favored.
Improvements of the second build over the first:
* -2/+4 HP (-8 from lower warpriest d8s, +6 higher starting CON, +6 Raging Vitality which eligible for at 1st-level)
* att-2/dmg-1.5 from lower STR and only Reckless Abandon+1
** ...BUT gains att+3/dmg+3 from Swift-action Divine Favor stacking Fate's Favored Luck bonus.
* +6 will save
* +3 skills/level
Unexpected Strike seems very good as does Spell Sunder. Can this type of barbarian you suggest out damage a two handed fighter? I should state this character is for a home brew game up to level 18I would like to add one quick thing before I make recommendations.
Over optimizing for damage is how barbarians die a take a few friends with them
Barbarians are a actually a well rounded melee class if you build the correctly. This is why half of all barbarian are superstitious witch hunters, with pounce.
16+2/ 14 / 15 / 10 / 12 / 7
is a perfectly good stat spread for a barbarian.
With that out of the way.
I love spell sunder. At some point you will face mirror image, invisibility, anti-life shield etc. This is your solution. Grab an animal mask for scent and a gore attack find the invisible caster and blow up their invisibility. Throw in strength surge so you never fail (expect ones).
Unexpected Strike is a lot of free attacks. This will keep your DPR way up.
Reckless Abandon trades AC for attack if you really want to play full on barbarian mode.
Knockdown/back and savage dirty trick have there place.
It depends, likely the fighter has better static numbers but has to make up for a pounce. That will take a few rounds. If there are more enemies that you have to move to you will stay a head. If your gm uses smart casters you will be way ahead, while the fighter takes 2 turns to remove mirror images you clear them in one attack and then land the rest of your attacks. This can be done on a pounce.
This is how I think of these things. The fighter is better in the situations that are easiest to deal with (starting adjacent with no magical defenses). The barbarian is better in adverse situations. You have to decide which you want to be better in and that depends on the GM.
In PFS most players I see die die from lack of preparation for odd encounters not because the melee guys...
I agree
THis is exactly why I use 1 handed weapons like Scimitars over 2 handed weapons. In the adverse condition of Grab/Grapple, you can not swing a 2 handed weapon. But you can take your 2nd hand off a scimitar and keep swinging. Some players say "I'll pull out another weapon." But those other weapons don't have feats you have taken associated with them. Getting another weapon requires action economy. Both things I like to avoid doing.
Like Grand said YMMV (your Milage may vary) and over the years to come of gaming you will find things you personally like to do because they work for you.
Also important that orc atavism means you do not count as human, so no human FCB.
No, you can't do that.Orc Atavism replacea the usual orc ability score bknuses so it's only a +2 to strengthOrcs get a +2 to any stat. Orc Atavism allows them to go +2 and -2 again. So, +4 Str, -2 Cha would be my choice.Some half-orcs have much stronger orc blood than human blood. Such half-orcs count as only half-orcs and orcs (not also humans) for any effect related to race. They gain a +2 bonus to Strength and a –2 penalty to one mental ability score of their choice. Finally, they gain the ferocity universal monster ability. This racial trait replaces the half-orc’s usual racial ability score modifiers, as well as intimidating, orc blood, and orc ferocity.IMO this is mostly a wash: monster ferocity lets you keep fighting below 0hp indefinitely while orc ferocity lets you do it for one round.
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STR is overrated; what's important are bonuses.
comparison:
STR+21 (18>20,bump 4th)
DEX:14
CON:14 (6th-level barbarian)
INT:07 (18,14,14,11,07,07 20pt array)
WIS:11
CHA:07
...this commonly-seen PFS character-sheet specimen is +7 to attack off STR & Reckless Abandon+2).
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STR+18 (15>17,bump 4th)
DEX:14
CON:16 (barbarian2/warpriest4)
INT:12 (16,15,14,12,10,07 20pt array)
WIS:14
CHA:07
...assume both builds contain Sacred Tattoo and Fate's Favored.Improvements of the second build over the first:
* -2/+4 HP (-8 from lower warpriest d8s, +6 higher starting CON, +6 Raging Vitality which eligible for at 1st-level)
* att-2/dmg-1.5 from lower STR and only Reckless Abandon+1
** ...BUT gains att+3/dmg+3 from Swift-action Divine Favor stacking Fate's Favored Luck bonus.
* +6 will save
* +3 skills/level
Hmm ur the first to mention Divine favor, well played sir. But looking for a straight barbarian non multiclass
So far I think we have a good idea on the stat block and archetype seems like Invulnerable Rager is highly recommended
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THis is exactly why I use 1 handed weapons like Scimitars over 2 handed weapons. In the adverse condition of Grab/Grapple, you can not swing a 2 handed weapon. But you can take your 2nd hand off a scimitar and keep swinging. Some players say "I'll pull out another weapon." But those other weapons don't have feats you have taken associated with them. Getting another weapon requires action economy. Both things I like to avoid doing.
Well, barbarians don't typically take (or need) weapon-specific feats. (Fighters suffer more in this regard since their WF/WS/WT+Gloves are all tied up into one thing.) Scimitars...oh, let me count the ways they blow: You're not "light", meaning that while usage in a grapple is okay, if the monster eats you, then the weapon is useless because you need a light weapon to cut your way out of Swallowed situations. (And, for you DEX-maxers, Piranha Strike won't work with scimitars either. TWF? ...can't put a second one in the off-hand, because -- you guessed it -- not light. Etc. I hate scimitars.)
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Hmm ur the first to mention Divine favor, well played sir. But looking for a straight barbarian non multiclass
I've never understood this desire to be straitjacketed, but to each, his own.
Multi class a bit too complicated for newer players
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Anyone so lacking in experience is going to routinely forget rage bonuses and penalties (not to mention that their rage-powers even exist), and will be blissfully unaware of the horribly sub-optimal tactical choices available to getting a lightly-armored martial almost immediately killed.
-- If you're generating a character for someone incapable of doing it themselves, don't make them a barbarian.
Such persons are much better off being given a fighter to play with: class numbers are static (i.e. you don't need a second "raging version" character-sheet), and the heavily-armored PC is much more likely to survive if it goes first, marches up to hack an enemy, and is then immediately mobbed when the enemies go next in initiative order.
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This seems to suppose that there are not degrees of complexity. A fighter is the easiest. Then you graduate to barbarians, or maybe a slayer, then to ranger, bloodrager, through all the way to full casters.*
Adding a second class with prepared casting, fervor, blessing etc is basically doubling the complexity of the build.
*the order above is illustrative and not a perfect ranking of difficulty. E.g. some bloodrager are simpler than some barbarians.
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Spells are easy, except Summon, because critter-management is the most annoying aspect of the game.
(Nothing will make you tear your hair out faster than trying to level an animal-companion without a CharGen engine on your computer, and even then you're only hoping it screws it up less than you will.)
I would like to add one quick thing before I make recommendations.
Over optimizing for damage is how barbarians die a take a few friends with them
Barbarians are a actually a well rounded melee class if you build the correctly. This is why half of all barbarian are superstitious witch hunters, with pounce.
16+2/ 14 / 15 / 10 / 12 / 7
is a perfectly good stat spread for a barbarian.
With that out of the way.
I love spell sunder. At some point you will face mirror image, invisibility, anti-life shield etc. This is your solution. Grab an animal mask for scent and a gore attack find the invisible caster and blow up their invisibility. Throw in strength surge so you never fail (expect ones).
Unexpected Strike is a lot of free attacks. This will keep your DPR way up.
Reckless Abandon trades AC for attack if you really want to play full on barbarian mode.
Knockdown/back and savage dirty trick have there place.
I agree with all of this.
The only feat not mentioned in this thread is Raging Brutality as your 13th level feat. I highly recommend it for burning down BBEGs quickly.
But Spell Sunder is godly as is just being a sunder machine. FIghters can do s%*~ when you break apart their main weapon they took all them feats for. Archers are not so scary if you charge them and sunder the bow. High AC and in full-plate? Not anymore!
I'm also a huge fan of COmbat Reflexes and Come and Get Me rage power. Which is partially why I like the 14 Dex so you can get it higher when CaGM comes online.
But if the enemy armor is sundered isn't it worthless to sell or use later on?