Drow of Apostae and the Pact Worlds

[Sir RicHunt Attenwampi]

David knott 242 wrote:

Cthulhudrew wrote:

MMCJawa wrote:

Are the Ilee officially extinct, or are just people assuming so do to Drow being on Apostae? Curious as someone who doesn't have the rulebook so just going off what is said here.

They are noted to be extinct in the admittedly brief overview of Apostae in the HC, suggesting it is so. It could turn out to be an overstatement or generalization, though (hopefully) that will get more clarification when Apostae is given a more detailed treatment in Pact Worlds.

The information given about the Ilee in Distant Worlds suggests that there was a central location where they were bred/manufactured in a wild variety of inconsistent forms -- so it is quite possible and indeed quite likely that this location was destroyed during the Gap. So I would guess that any Ilee whose appearances did not resemble those of any possible mates would have left no descendants, while those who could find compatible mates bred true and became the ancestors of new races yet to be detailed.

David knott 242 wrote:

I think that would be our answer -- convert mongrelmen to Starfinder and describe them as the descendants of heavily mixed lines of generally bipedal Ilee.

Maybe the ilee stole a bit from the sahuagin: most ilee are like (deeply subterranean) mongrelmen except a few who have become malenti versions of drow?

[thejeff]

Elmdorprime wrote:

Silentman73 wrote:

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Did I mention I'm probably not the right person to ask about this? I hate Pathfinder's drow almost as much as I hate FR's drow. I think they represent basically everything wrong with...

In general, most of what many think of as "drow" now are the result of R.A. Salvatore's books in the 90s. He's the one who fully fleshed out drow society. Aside from an occasional article in Dragon Magazine here and there, they were otherwise just Gygax creations that amounted to, "They're evil elves, and so people know they're evil, we'll make their skin black and make their race subterranean, because nothing good can live underground."

Or it could be that when the drow were created by looking up Norse mythology, specifically Svartalfheim, to come up with a way to make evil elves since elves are almost universally regarded as good.

Sometimes a race of evil, subterranean elves is just a race of evil, subterranean elves.

And then not actually doing any research on the Svartalfar (or the Dökkálfar, if they're actually different) beyond the basic "there are dark elves" concept.

[Set]

I've seen artistic interpretations of 'dark elves' with flat black, glossy black, dark brown, dark blue-black and, in Golarion, sort of dark purple skin, so they seem pretty diverse, for 'dark elves.'

I'd love to see some dark greenish-black 'sea drow,' or dark reddish-black 'inferno drow' that live near underground magma beds (or have established a foothold on the elemental plane of fire).

[Elmdorprime]

thejeff wrote:

Elmdorprime wrote:

Silentman73 wrote:

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Did I mention I'm probably not the right person to ask about this? I hate Pathfinder's drow almost as much as I hate FR's drow. I think they represent basically everything wrong with...

In general, most of what many think of as "drow" now are the result of R.A. Salvatore's books in the 90s. He's the one who fully fleshed out drow society. Aside from an occasional article in Dragon Magazine here and there, they were otherwise just Gygax creations that amounted to, "They're evil elves, and so people know they're evil, we'll make their skin black and make their race subterranean, because nothing good can live underground."

Or it could be that when the drow were created by looking up Norse mythology, specifically Svartalfheim, to come up with a way to make evil elves since elves are almost universally regarded as good.

Sometimes a race of evil, subterranean elves is just a race of evil, subterranean elves.

And then not actually doing any research on the Svartalfar (or the Dökkálfar, if they're actually different) beyond the basic "there are dark elves" concept.

From what I understand there isn't much beyond the name Svartalfheim, which apparently roughly translates as "land of the black elves," the location is underground, and the "black elves" might or might not have been dwarves if the name was mistranslated.

[thejeff]

The purple started as an artistic convention for drawing dark black skin so you could still see definition. Much like Superman's "blue" hair.
Since then it's taken on a life of its own and sometimes you see light purple art.

[Cthulhudrew]

David knott 242 wrote:

The information given about the Ilee in Distant Worlds suggests that there was a central location where they were bred/manufactured in a wild variety of inconsistent forms -- so it is quite possible and indeed quite likely that this location was destroyed during the Gap.

I would have to double check to be certain, but the Apostae entry actually mentions that said Chamber of Life has actually not yet been found by the drow, despite their efforts to locate it, and that it is locked safely away from intrusion attempts. So even if there are no ilee any longer, the possibility still persists for their future creation.

[James Sutter]

First off: I'm extremely honored to see so many people asking about the ilee! I had no idea people were so attached to them. So thank you. :)

As for what happened to them: Well, as we can all see, there aren't any on Apostae anymore. Clearly that must mean they were wiped out, right? But recall the central conceit of the ilee as a race: the fact that their physical forms were all very different, thanks to their unique creation process. Now ask yourself, what if they could control that process? What if, instead of fighting, you could change shape and walk among your invaders?

All I'm saying is, keep an eye on the Pact Worlds hardcover.

[Tacticslion]

YYYYYYEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS

[Elmdorprime]

Now that's a post!

[Lordwakkawakka]

Dang Mr. Sutter, that gave me chills! And here I thought I was excited for the Pact Worlds book before!

[UnArcaneElection]

Also, are we sure that Apostae was the only place that Ilee lived in significant numbers?

[Cthulhudrew]

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Also, are we sure that Apostae was the only place that Ilee lived in significant numbers?

They didn't have (in Distant Worlds) spacecraft of their own, nor did they even venture onto the surface. It's possible that somewhere in the past thousands of years that changed, or that some of them may have been transported to other planets by outsiders at some point, though.

[David knott 242]

But as James Sutter pointed out -- since they have no distinctive and unique appearance, how would we recognize an Ilee if we met one?

[Herald]

So I am wondering, Drow used to be black, but those on Apostae are Purple. S I have to wonder if moving to that world changed them? It's been mentioned that elves commonly take on color characteristics of their environment, or what the story was.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Purely speaking from a 'hypothetical' perspective:

And definintely not seeking confirmation nor denial from official sources!

Imagine, if one would, generations of a given race that could modify/have themselves modified to fit with other races.

Now imagine what that might do to the make-up and disposition of some of the other races that they were modified to fit with.

Suddenly the point-buy attribute change-up (a mechanical item) makes a bit of a 'story' sense -- Magic/Tech advanced society to the point where a 'dump stat' is a 'minor' flaw, versus a 'debilitating' one, as genetics and body formation has been 'smoothed out' somewhat. Enough to allow individual variation, but the more extreme outliers on the negative have been winnowed out...

[Politically Incorrect]

Mind... BLOWN.

[IonutRO]

Herald wrote:

So I am wondering, Drow used to be black, but those on Apostae are Purple. S I have to wonder if moving to that world changed them? It's been mentioned that elves commonly take on color characteristics of their environment, or what the story was.

Drow are only black in D&D*, Pathfinder drow have always been blue and purple skinned.

*And other derivative works that kept them black, which Pathfinder didn't.

James Sutter wrote:

First off: I'm extremely honored to see so many people asking about the ilee! I had no idea people were so attached to them. So thank you. :)

As for what happened to them: Well, as we can all see, there aren't any on Apostae anymore. Clearly that must mean they were wiped out, right? But recall the central conceit of the ilee as a race: the fact that their physical forms were all very different, thanks to their unique creation process. Now ask yourself, what if they could control that process? What if, instead of fighting, you could change shape and walk among your invaders?

All I'm saying is, keep an eye on the Pact Worlds hardcover.

So what you're saying is that they're Unseen?

[DJEternalDarkness]

James Sutter wrote:

First off: I'm extremely honored to see so many people asking about the ilee! I had no idea people were so attached to them. So thank you. :)

As for what happened to them: Well, as we can all see, there aren't any on Apostae anymore. Clearly that must mean they were wiped out, right? But recall the central conceit of the ilee as a race: the fact that their physical forms were all very different, thanks to their unique creation process. Now ask yourself, what if they could control that process? What if, instead of fighting, you could change shape and walk among your invaders?

All I'm saying is, keep an eye on the Pact Worlds hardcover.

YAY! I loved the Ilee! Loved the picture, thought they were a super cool idea and the fact that they are not just gone makes me super happy!

[The Sideromancer]

Especially with the possible fleshwarping connection, I'd like to think that my as-of-yet unbuilt alchemist might have had some influence. Possibly not all they wanted, but hey, at least you're recognized for something.

project Fafnir wrote:

If you're not getting power from them directly, you don't want to be under demons. That's pretty much a straight fact. So why haven't we overthrown the theocracy yet? Because as it stands right now, we need them. We're the frailest race in the least hospitable part of this planet. The only way we keep our cities safe from outside threats is with a steady supply of bodies, whether those are animal or slaves. But bodies need food, and farming isn't easy with no soil or light. We need clerics with Create Food and Water.

So how would we get better? We'd need to fix the source problem, the food shortage. But I don't think we can convince anybody to run a trade route through the Darklands, there's just to much risk. If we're to improve, we're going to need to do it ourselves as Drow. This is why I've studied fleshwarping: to attempt to make Darklands farming viable enough that we don't always need demons.

[Cthulhudrew]

IonutRO wrote:

Drow are only black in D&D*, Pathfinder drow have always been blue and purple skinned.

*And other derivative works that kept them black, which Pathfinder didn't

Well, not always- Second Darkness explicitly references black skinned drow at various points, and the artwork is a mixture of both black and purplish skin toned dark elves. Over time, however, they have been decreasingly referred to as being black, though.

ETA: Although, technically SD was a 3.5 product, not PF, so maybe that's what you meant.

[Herald]

Well the PRD says they range from coal black to dusky purple so I did miss out on that, my mistake. But black Drow are still a thing.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

If you're underground and all you have is darkvision, what does dusky purple or navy blue look like?

[Cthulhudrew]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

If you're underground and all you have is darkvision, what does dusky purple or navy blue look like?

Shades of grey. We're all just shades of grey, in the end.

[Vlaeros]

Are there about... fifty or so?

[tyhm]

I'd love to see a drow ad agency where the boss really prides herself on being forward thinking, but keeps hiring attractive male secretaries that just can't resist her. Maybe at the end Dawn Draphir comes up with a famous jingle.

[Yakman]

tyhm wrote:

I'd love to see a drow ad agency where the boss really prides herself on being forward thinking, but keeps hiring attractive male secretaries that just can't resist her. Maybe at the end Dawn Draphir comes up with a famous jingle.

I thought it was Don Dhampir from Eox ;-)

The drow advertising firm is too good to pass up though.