I'd go with a korasha lashunta personally
Str 16 Dex 10/12 Con 12/10 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha 16. Any theme works.
That way I have a decent to-hit and damage and my dc is decent. I'd also pick armor to make up for my lower Dex and will go with a weapon with either reach or block until I can get a better Chainsword or something. Str or Charisma can be lowe red a bit if needed, but I'd think it's a good start
Unless they were stripped of their previously bought (in a settlement) gear when they went into the shuttle, Lvl +1.
But they were playing a character from <insert really big settlement here> where, based on the guidelines, level+2 equipment is available. Are you saying those characters were stripped of their level+2 gear?
[Edit]: Just read the later replies and will drop it unless another thread is started on the subject.
Statistically, the Strength 18 character will hit more often, and for more damage each time.
But they'll contribute to less fights in a day, thus dealing less damage.
With Strength 14, base attack bonus +1, and Weapon Focus, you have an attack bonus of +4. You hit KAC 12 on a natural 8+, or 65% of the time.Or, you could have Strength 18 and hit KAC 12 on a natural 6+, or 75% of the time, for 2 more damage each time.
I'd rather be able to contribute to a whole extra fight (or two) than do 2 extra damage each round. Also by level 5 starting STR 16 is the same as starting STR 18. Come level 10 the difference between the two characters is +1 to hit and damage.
After level 5, my build and the 18 strength build are 1 point to hit and damage apart, and my build has better charisma, so I can do things like make diplomacy checks.
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But Vrog! That's a difference of 5%; don't you know how bad that is!?
Skipping his post still. I assume by what every one else is saying hes still arguing that Janky forgo everything the class does to do 2 more damage build.
Has anyone else tried to make this assumption? I haven't seen it.
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It's amazing to me how much time people will spend to figure out how to play less at the table. It's not a video game - you don't get an award for speed-running an encounter, you just run your GM out of prepared materials faster. Focusing on damage and builds is fine - trying to squeeze all the damage out of a system like you're wringing out a wet towel on the other hand... You might as well just play a board or card game. You'll probably have a better time.
I've had quite an appreciation for the Solar Armor. It seems to me that, at level one, that can allow you to have the highest AC - particularly as a Vesk. I personally see more use out of ranged weapons with Solar Armor tho - Dexterity also benefits your AC, and a lot of enemies thus far seem to be designed around having ranged options, even if that's not what they're good at. Being able to stay in the front line, but still not needlessly take damage before engaging, seems like a good middle-ground.
I'm aware that Solarion benefits melee more, but if you were looking at something tankier, having a shooty-Solarion might not be too bad, and may limit your MAD issues - particularly if you mix with an operative weapon, and then take Opening Volley at some point.
That said, overall glad to see people focusing on more aspects of Solarion besides just their lightsaber. I think flavor-wise the Solar Blade is pretty cool, but there's a lot going on with Solarion besides just "hit guys" - even in combat.
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I know i can't wait for my Shirren Solarion to be able to run across the ceiling and decapitate someone when he lands.
Skipping his post still. I assume by what every one else is saying hes still arguing that Janky forgo everything the class does to do 2 more damage build.
Has anyone else tried to make this assumption? I haven't seen it.
I've noticed there are a few people who agree with him, but they either gave up on the class/argument or decided to homebrew in few changes.
I've noticed there are a few people who agree with him, but they either gave up on the class/argument or decided to homebrew in few changes.Skipping his post still. I assume by what every one else is saying hes still arguing that Janky forgo everything the class does to do 2 more damage build.
Has anyone else tried to make this assumption? I haven't seen it.
Well I can relate to home-brewing nothing wrong with that. If it ends being a problem you can always go back too.
making the same Argument over and over seems to be kind of pointless.
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I know i can't wait for my Shirren Solarion to be able to run across the ceiling and decapitate someone when he lands.
That, frankly, sounds awesome.
I've noticed there are a few people who agree with him, but they either gave up on the class/argument or decided to homebrew in few changes.Homebrewing in changes to the solarian is an acknowledgment that single-classed solarians are in need of a good deal of help.
Seeing as how every class has had something homebrewed into at one point or another, that is blatantly false.
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I've noticed there are a few people who agree with him, but they either gave up on the class/argument or decided to homebrew in few changes.Homebrewing in changes to the solarian is an acknowledgment that single-classed solarians are in need of a good deal of help.
It's not an acknowledgement that it needs help, it's a statement that the class doesn't work *for that person* and that they personally want to change it.
There are plenty of other people who don't feel the need to change it, and therefore the class is fine for them.
Not every class will fit every person's personal desires for how a class should be.
Not just one person. My whole group found the solarian quite underwhelming. To be fair, they all had high expectations.
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The build I'm looking to play starts with
Str – 18* Dex – 11* Con – 10* Int – 10 Wis – 8 Cha – 16*
*Raise at 5th
2–Gravity Hold
4–Plasma Sheath
6–Reflection
8–Hypnotic Glow
9–Miniature Star & Starquake
10-Crush
Get the ring of resistance for will saves to compensate for the Wis. Grab Heavy Armor Prof at first level. Focus on Bluff & Diplomacy to be the party face. This gives a good deal of battle field control, out of combat utility, and damage.
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Thats what the 1st level Heavy Armor Prof is for. =)
Sure. But my starting Operative is gonna have a 15/16 AC, a starting Dex 14 character in heavy armor can have AC 15/17. You're gonna have AC 13/15.
And as far as I can tell AC is low across the board in Starfinder.
Eh...depends on what standards you have for low. It's not gonna be an 18 or 19 at 1st level, but it goes up fairly quickly.
The build I'm looking to play starts with
Str – 18* Dex – 11* Con – 10* Int – 10 Wis – 8 Cha – 16*
*Raise at 5th
Is your group starting with a higher point buy? That looks like 15 points instead of the standard 13.
Korasha Lashunta get +2 STR/CHA and -2 DEX so that and Theme it seems to add up alright.
Edit: ninjaed
Nice.
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Is your group starting with a higher point buy? That looks like 15 points instead of the standard 13.The build I'm looking to play starts with
Str – 18* Dex – 11* Con – 10* Int – 10 Wis – 8 Cha – 16*
*Raise at 5th
That is possible with a Lashunta (Korasha sub-race). +2 Str, +2 Cha, -2 Wis.
16 + 2 Str / 10 + 1 Theme Dex / 10 Con / 10 - 2 Wis / 14 + 2 Cha.Edit: Ninja'd by a ninja army...
The build I'm looking to play starts with
Str – 18* Dex – 11* Con – 10* Int – 10 Wis – 8 Cha – 16*
*Raise at 5th2–Gravity Hold
4–Plasma Sheath
6–Reflection
8–Hypnotic Glow
9–Miniature Star & Starquake
10-CrushGet the ring of resistance for will saves to compensate for the Wis. Grab Heavy Armor Prof at first level. Focus on Bluff & Diplomacy to be the party face. This gives a good deal of battle field control, out of combat utility, and damage.
That stat buy looks great to me, I think you just have to give up on both good AC and light armor as Solarian, resolve seems more important than AC at low levels.
Enemies have super high to hit chances already, so less ac is comparatively less important. If they hit on a 7, -2 AC has them hit 14% more vs if they hit on a 15, -2 AC has them hit 33% more
Thanks for the clarification!
The build I'm looking to play starts with
Str – 18* Dex – 11* Con – 10* Int – 10 Wis – 8 Cha – 16*
*Raise at 5th2–Gravity Hold
4–Plasma Sheath
6–Reflection
8–Hypnotic Glow
9–Miniature Star & Starquake
10-CrushGet the ring of resistance for will saves to compensate for the Wis. Grab Heavy Armor Prof at first level. Focus on Bluff & Diplomacy to be the party face. This gives a good deal of battle field control, out of combat utility, and damage.
A few comments:
1) Be aware Gravity Hold doesn't play nice with Plasma Sheath and vice versa. Its purely an either or to get combat benefit out of them. It takes a minimum of 1 turn to switch between them as well. If you're currently in Photon, at the start of the turn you drop to unattuned (losing any benefits), then the start of the next turn you can go into Graviton (unless you have a level 11 magic ring).2)Reflection is Dex based because it makes a ranged attack roll. With starting 10 Dex, you'll really, really want to be in Graviton attunement to have a reasonable chance of hitting. If not, you'll be at -7 to hit relative to your normal melee attacks.
It just means you need some thought put into what you want to do at the very beginning of a fight. At 2nd level there are a couple of powers whose primary benefit doesn't matter on the attunement mode you are in.
Those are: Flare, Gravity Boost, Stellar Rush
Most of the 6th level revelations are both mode friendly, except Corona.
1) Gravity hold vs plasma sheath. What is preventing them from playing nice together?
Photon mode is required for plasma sheath to last (at least the fire damage, and most likely the damage), but gravity hold just requires attunement. If something says graiton attunement is required, I can't find it (and out of combat you can't be, and you can use the basic psycho hand whenever)
Attuning to a specific mode only seems to matter for zenith powers or if the revelations specifically say so.
Mostly the big deal for attunement is you aren't attuned the first round round of combat- you just pick one side, and then get your first point (and become attuned) on round 2.
1) Gravity hold vs plasma sheath. What is preventing them from playing nice together?
Photon mode is required for plasma sheath to last (at least the fire damage, and most likely the damage), but gravity hold just requires attunement. If something says graiton attunement is required, I can't find it (and out of combat you can't be, and you can use the basic psycho hand whenever)
Attuning to a specific mode only seems to matter for zenith powers or if the revelations specifically say so.
Mostly the big deal for attunement is you aren't attuned the first round round of combat- you just pick one side, and then get your first point (and become attuned) on round 2.
Oh I see. I've been reading it wrong. You are absolutely correct. It only says attunement. For each of the revelations, I've been making the (incorrect) assumption for those sections that say attuned, were for the matching attunement as the power type, but that is not the case. The zenith revelations clearly state photon-attuned or graviton-attuned, while the stellar revelations only state attunement.
Good to know. Thanks.
Edit: Although as Durathinel indicates, you're attuned at the start of your 1st turn if you want. By the same reasoning you can use an attuned power on the 1st turn (1 point at start of turn), use an attuned power on the 2nd (2 points at start of turn) and use your zenith power on the 3rd (3 points at start of turn).
1) Gravity hold vs plasma sheath. What is preventing them from playing nice together?
Photon mode is required for plasma sheath to last (at least the fire damage, and most likely the damage), but gravity hold just requires attunement. If something says graiton attunement is required, I can't find it (and out of combat you can't be, and you can use the basic psycho hand whenever)
Attuning to a specific mode only seems to matter for zenith powers or if the revelations specifically say so.
Mostly the big deal for attunement is you aren't attuned the first round round of combat- you just pick one side, and then get your first point (and become attuned) on round 2.
Oh I see. I've been reading it wrong. You are absolutely correct. It only says attunement. For each of the revelations, I've been making the (incorrect) assumption for those sections that say attuned, were for the matching attunement as the power type, but that is not the case. The zenith revelations clearly state photon-attuned or graviton-attuned, while the stellar revelations only state attunement.
Good to know. Thanks.
While the "any kind of attunement" reading would give the Solarian a nice boost, I suspect (given the surrounding text) that it was not what the authors had in mind...
So I suspect we'll soon get an errata/FAQ on this... :(
1) Gravity hold vs plasma sheath. What is preventing them from playing nice together?
Photon mode is required for plasma sheath to last (at least the fire damage, and most likely the damage), but gravity hold just requires attunement. If something says graiton attunement is required, I can't find it (and out of combat you can't be, and you can use the basic psycho hand whenever)
Attuning to a specific mode only seems to matter for zenith powers or if the revelations specifically say so.
Mostly the big deal for attunement is you aren't attuned the first round round of combat- you just pick one side, and then get your first point (and become attuned) on round 2.
Page 102
The specific descriptions of each mode states
"When you enter this mode, you gain 1 attunement point and become attuned. Some of your revelations are (mode name) powers and get stronger when (mode name) attuned.So turn 1, choose which mode to enter, gain 1 attunment for entering that mode, revelations matching that mode get stronger.
Turn 2, either become Unattuned or gain second attunment point.
Ah. You are correct that you get a point on turn one (in the mode's sections, not in the section for how stellar mode works. Sigh.)
As for 'stronger' that is clearly true of plasma sheath (and zenith powers), which gives you benefits when specifically photon attuned. I don't see anything similar for gravity hold, though, or many of the other powers.
Thats either a lot of errata, or solarions are much more limited than I thought. Going disproportionate seems an even better prospect if your other mode powers don't work so well.
I do hope this isn't fuzzy writing and 'obviously we meant..'
@Voss: I agree; it'd be good to get some clarity on this. Has anybody put up a FAQ on this topic?
One thing that i cant find a good answer to but seems to work is using photon powers in graviton mode an vice versa. Given the "it lasts one round or as long as you are attuned" piece, it seems to me that you can use your powers regardless of attunement, they just won't be as effective.
If I'm wrong, could someone point me at the relevant page(s)?
That's part of what we're talking about, actually. As written, most of the non-zenith powers seems to shrug and not care. If they actually require the relevant attunement, the solarion is really rather punished for diversifying into both power sets.
But keep in mind that the solarion can _never_ be attuned without combat music. So if you need to fly across an 80' gap (rather than a 60'), be sure to shoot down at the crowd the round before.
One thing that i cant find a good answer to but seems to work is using photon powers in graviton mode an vice versa. Given the "it lasts one round or as long as you are attuned" piece, it seems to me that you can use your powers regardless of attunement, they just won't be as effective.
If I'm wrong, could someone point me at the relevant page(s)?
You are not wrong. You can use all non-zenith powers while unattuned, photon attuned, or graviton attuned. Out of combat or in-combat, doesn't matter.
Top of page 103:
"You can use stellar revelations both in and out of combat,
but since you can’t enter a stellar mode outside of battle, any
revelation that lasts for 1 round or as long as you’re in a stellar
mode lasts only 1 round if you’re not in combat."
Just imagine reading it like an Operative Exploit or a Mechanic's Trick. The power literally says what you can do. For example, Gravity Boost is +1 for every 3 Solarian levels to Athletics checks to Climb, jump or swim. All the time.
In contrast, the zenith powers explicitly say "when you are fully photon-attuned" or "graviton-attuned".
The part of the Soldier dip that tempts me most is changing my resolve stat to an important one.
I'm sketching up a Human with 16 Str, 14 Dex, 12 Con, 10 mental stats (+1 to something from theme) and it's lame to be 3 resolve points behind.
Mystic isn't Obi-wan trying to get into Mos Eisly so he can fight Darth Vader to the death.
And not everyone has that opinion, Colette. It is not a fact, nor does everyone want to play the most optimized combat character.
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That is not fallacious reasoning if someone actually puts some value on anything other than pure ability to hit in melee. Those 4 points of Strength are not free, and need to be weighed against other things you could be getting with them. It is at the expense of something else.
You are basically saying, any character who doesn't have an 18 in either Strength or Dexterity is built wrong. Doesn't matter if they are a Mystic, a Technomancer, or an Envoy, anything. Because you are saying anything other than chance to hit should have zero value to everyone.
Context is important. This thread is about solarians starting at 1st level, so I am speaking of Strength 18 under that precise context.
In general, it seems optimal for a character starting at 1st level to go all-in on their primary offense ability score, since that will determine their ability to actually do their job in a fight. Skills are important as well, but the opportunity cost involved in upgrading them is weightier.
Are you an envoy starting at 1st level? Dexterity 18 or Charisma 18 depending on your improvisation.
Are you a mechanic starting at 1st level? Dexterity 18, although I could also see a case for Intelligence 18.
Are you a mystic starting at 1st level? Wisdom 18.
Are you an operative starting at 1st level? Dexterity 18.
Are you a solarian starting at 1st level? Strength 18.
Are you a soldier starting at 1st level? Strength 18 or Dexterity 18, depending on your choice of weapon.
Are you a technomancer starting at 1st level? Intelligence 18, though I could see a case for Dexterity 18 for those technomancers who value Supercharge Weapon and the like and wish to personally attack with those.
It's great you see having an 18 in a skill as extremely important, but not everyone does (I haven't built an 18 score starting character, even in Pathfinder, for a while.) Some people see the opportunity costs of the 18 as out weighing the benifits of it. Please just accept that people have differing opinions and let this "It HAS to have an 18" rest.
Alternatively, if you feel this is an issue that HAS to be argued, could you move it to its own thread? At this point you're pretty well off topic.
you forgot you fourth ability score for level 20
Yes I did! I would increase Int to 12.
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you are seldom going to be hitting on a natural 2+, even with maxed-out Strength against a CR -3 enemy.
Just to make sure that I understand your argument, you're saying that a "combat focused" character has to be able to hit an enemy on a 2 to have value?
You do know that math doesn't work in Pathfinder either, right? It's almost impossible to get a character (even with maxed str/dex) to always hit on a 2+.
Some of your stellar revelations are graviton powers and get stronger if you’re graviton-attuned.Some of your stellar revelations are photon powers and get stronger if you’re photon-attuned.I think it's quite obvious that the "When you are attuned or fully attuned,.." part of relevations talk about their attunement to their specific mode.
I agree that it could've been even clearer if they added the Graviton/Photon in that sentence, but that's nitpicking in my opinion.
Well no it's not since you can use your revelations when you're unattuned.
Vrog, Colette meant that every bonus you can get to your attack roll is important because you cannot guarantee a hit. Achieving 'overkill' with your attack bonus is only possible if you can guarantee every roll other than a natural '1' is going to hit.
I am not defending Colette's views on the solarian, just clarifying that particular statement.