Hi, I usually lurk the forums and this is my first post.
A while ago my group rolled up stats for a new AP. We used 4d6 drop lowest and I was lucky enough to roll an 11 11 10 9 12 12 for my array. Fortunately my DM took pity on my and allowed me to raise my 9 to a 16.
What build would you go for it this was a stat array that you were forced to use?
A bard or other spellcasting buffer. Stay out of melee combat by relying on ranged attacks or a reach weapon.
11 12 12 11 10 16. Maybe go hobgoblin to buff Dex and Con, put all your Ability Score Increases into Cha.
Or maybe go witch, swapping Int and Cha. Stay out of sight, and buff or debuff with hexes.
Buffing is good because you don't have to worry about Save DCs.
Maybe go druid, hunter, or summoner, and let your animal companion or eidolon do all the heavy lifting.
A bard or other spellcasting buffer. Stay out of melee combat by relying on ranged attacks or a reach weapon.
11 12 12 11 10 16. Maybe go hobgoblin to buff Dex and Con, put all your Ability Score Increases into Cha.
Or maybe go witch, swapping Int and Cha. Stay out of sight, and buff or debuff with hexes.
Buffing is good because you don't have to worry about Save DCs.
Maybe go druid, hunter, or summoner, and let your animal companion or eidolon do all the heavy lifting.
I apologize if I caused any confusion but I meant what would you do if you had to make a character with the original stat roll.
I did end up playing a bard though!
The least stat-dependent class in the game is the Summoner. Its eidolon's combat abilities are not dependent on your own attributes, its best spells don't call for saving throws so a middling charisma isn't crippling, and its summon monster SLA just gets fewer uses with lower charisma and is still fully functional.
Aside from the Summoner, primary spellcasters in general can make good use of middling stats so long as you have one decent one. Your 16, if boosted with a racial bonus, would make for a fine Wizard or Sorcerer.
For a 12, 12, 11, 11, 10, 9 character, maybe a dwarf druid, focusing on buffing the animal companion. Starting out with a 14 in Wisdom (and Con) getting up to 18 by 16th level. Maybe a hunter or summoner. I don't know enough about psychic classes to know if a spiritualist is worth trying.
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Hi, I usually lurk the forums and this is my first post.
A while ago my group rolled up stats for a new AP. We used 4d6 drop lowest and I was lucky enough to roll an 11 11 10 9 12 12 for my array. Fortunately my DM took pity on my and allowed me to raise my 9 to a 16.
What build would you go for it this was a stat array that you were forced to use?
Well, you've already missed your chance to argue that rolling for stats is pure, concentrated alchemic extract of donkey chode because it very frequently (as in: virtually all the time) results in the best die roller having better stats than the worst roller will after five level-ups every 4th.
-- Put the 16 in WIS, a 12 in CHA, make a bard, and have him quit after the very first even slightly-dangerous encounter.
"I'm sorry guys, but I just don't have the chops for this kind of thing. I was dumb in the morning when I went along with you, but I'm feeling smarter now. Thanks for the thrills, but I'll stick to singing in the tavern for my coin."
-- Then make another character. If everyone else at the table has "mysteriously" finagled at least two numbers in the mid- to high teens, ask for 25pt buy instead of rolling.
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"I'm sorry guys, but I just don't have the chops for this kind of thing. I was dumb in the morning when I went along with you, but I'm feeling smarter now. Thanks for the thrills, but I'll stick to singing in the tavern for my coin."
Haha thanks for the chuckle.
Everyone else on the table happened to roll surprisingly low stats as well. The only one person managed to roll more than one stat above 15. I use Roll20 for my games so everyone got to see each other's stat rolls.
I usually enjoy having a power difference between character starting out. It sort of gives the character personality in my opinion. For games like PFS, I understand the need for balance between characters. But if it's just an AP between friends, having one character have a slight edge over the other could make for some interesting character interactions. It also encourages people to be more creative with the way they handle certain situations. It might just be personal bias since my group is pretty flexible with the way we handle most interactions outside of combat.
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If you simply must keep these rolls in a bard skin, try this:
halfling:
STR-08
DEX+14
CON:12
INT:11
WIS:11
CHA+18
Build:
racial trait: Fleet of Foot
traits: Magical Knack (Bard), Lucky Halfling
00: saves Ft Rf Wi
01: pala1 03 02 03 [divine hunter:Precise Shot][smite][detect evil], EWP:Repeating Crossbow
02: bard1 03 04 05
03: pala2 08 08 10 [divine grace], FEAT(g)
04: bard2 08 09 10 (all bard from here on)
A bard/paladin multiclass in a halfling papers over a lot of weaknesses: you have a good attack bonus at least once per day versus one evil opponent, you've picked up AC+2 and att+2 in your second most-important stat (DEX) without hurting your primary (also race-bumped to an 18 at 1st level). At 3rd, you get a +4 to all your saves (jumps to +5 when you pick up a headband), and that's on top of a halfling's innate +1 to saves.
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We once played a d20 Modern game, and we rolled for stats, and it must have been some kind of crazy way, because my guy was like 15, 16, 16, 17, 17, 18. Of course, I played a Dedicated Hero (a Jesuit priest surgeon that hunted shadow monsters, because, of course), so I put the 18 in Int, 17 in Wisdom, and just spread them out. It could have been a melee monster, or something super stupid powerful, but I just dual-wielded Uzis and/or medical bags and did surgery to heal my friends.
We played another game where the 3 PCs were 15 point buy, and each controlled a 5 point NPC warriors. It was really fun and old school 1st Edition in feel.
I remember in 1st or 2nd Edition, there was an NPC cleric with a 4 Dex, and her temple kept trying to foist her off on the PCs because she kept breaking their stuff. Through clumsiness.
If you simply must keep these rolls in a bard skin, try this:...
A bard/paladin multiclass in a halfling papers over a lot of weaknesses: you have a good attack bonus at least once per day versus one evil opponent, you've picked up AC+2 and att+2 in your second most-important stat (DEX) without hurting your primary (also race-bumped to an 18 at 1st level). At 3rd, you get a +4 to all your saves (jumps to +5 when you pick up a headband), and that's on top of a halfling's innate +1 to saves.
Well I wasn't expecting any build advice. But since you seem to be willing, I'll also post my build plan for some critique.
The AP is Kingmaker, we have not gotten past level 2 at this point. My group seems to want me to take the leadership/ face role since I can't do much else. So I decided to try at Battle Herald so I could provide some decent buffs and other combat buffs. I also want to fill a skill monkey roll on the side.
Human Bard 9/ Daring Champion Cavalier 1/ Battle Herald 10
Ability Scores:
STR: 12
DEX: 12
CON: 11
INT: 11
WIS: 11
CHA: 18
Traits: Noble Born, Natural Born Leader (My GM seems okay with leadership in this AP)
Racial: Focused Study, Skilled
Bard 1. Noble Scion of the Arts, Skill Focus (Oratory)
Bard 2.
Bard 3.
Bard 4.
Cavelier 5.
Battle Herald 6.
Bard 7-8.
Battle Herald 9.
Bard 10-12
Battle Herald 13-20.
The first level Noble Scion of the Arts is mainly just for my character's backstory. I'm not too concerned with optimization in this campaign. Mainly just looking for some interesting feats that would help with buffing / being the face. I plan on taking Leadership at level 7 if my GM permits it. Right now I'm deciding what would be a good Bard/Cavalier ratio before I take Battle Herald. Only the first two levels have been set in stone, but I'm fairly set on going Battle Herald.
EDIT: I also just realized after looking at my character sheet that I in fact rolled 3 11's and and 2 12's.
We once played a d20 Modern game, and we rolled for stats, and it must have been some kind of crazy way, because my guy was like 15, 16, 16, 17, 17, 18. Of course, I played a Dedicated Hero (a Jesuit priest surgeon that hunted shadow monsters, because, of course), so I put the 18 in Int, 17 in Wisdom, and just spread them out. It could have been a melee monster, or something super stupid powerful, but I just dual-wielded Uzis and/or medical bags and did surgery to heal my friends.
We played another game where the 3 PCs were 15 point buy, and each controlled a 5 point NPC warriors. It was really fun and old school 1st Edition in feel.
One of my fellow players rolled 4 18s, a 16 and a 6 for his stats on another AP. He decided to dump charisma and our GM forced him to play his character like a socially awkward buffoon. It let to some pretty funny moments since we would occasionally have him act as face.
Everyone else on the table happened to roll surprisingly low stats as well. The only one person managed to roll more than one stat above 15. I use Roll20 for my games so everyone got to see each other's stat rolls.I usually enjoy having a power difference between character starting out. It sort of gives the character personality in my opinion.
Because I am shameless, I'll plug my approach to rolled stats, which gives the variability you seek without the massive disparities. It generates usable stat arrays within a point buy range.
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Well I wasn't expecting any build advice. But since you seem to be willing, I'll also post my build plan for some critique.
The AP is Kingmaker, we have not gotten past level 2 at this point. My group seems to want me to take the leadership/ face role since I can't do much else. So I decided to try at Battle Herald so I could provide some decent buffs and other combat buffs. I also want to fill a skill monkey roll on the side.
Avoid prestige classes like the plague if you're a caster and the PrC does not advance spellcasting; most are underwhelming compared to stock classes straight out of the CRB. Your character would have 10 more HP at 20th over straight bard; what a horrible deal for giving up all bard class advancement.
-- CRB bard is a powerful, end-loaded class. Don't discount it.
Human...
Ability Scores:
STR: 12
DEX: 12
CON: 11
INT: 11
WIS: 11
CHA: 18
The main thing that worries me about your stats is durability. Even though you're not expected to fight by your allies, that doesn't mean bad guys don't want to fight you. Or at least have you make some saves. (Just wandering around accidentally smelling fungus spores is a popular way to get zonked by low-CON/no-fort PCs).
One of the few 12s put in strength is just a lure for you to get your head pounded in melee. Just stay away from that.. It should be swapped with any of the 11s.
Aside from a feat and a 7th skill point, human is suboptimal: he'll be AC-2, att-2, and saves -1/-2/-1(-3fear) versus the halfling I submitted previously.
Note: You can be a "human" if you want to be: Alter Self is on the bard list, or flip 1800gp toward a Hat of Disguise (the better choice as it can be yours very early.
Daring Champion Cavalier 1/ Battle Herald 10
Traits: Noble Born, Natural Born Leader (My GM seems okay with leadership in this AP)
Racial: Focused Study, Skilled
Daring Champion Cavalier offers this build absolutely nothing that I can see (it doesn't even get the free horse). With a STR and DEX of 12 each, getting Weapon Finesse doesn't accomplish anything. Be able to qualify from attribute-dependant feats is tempting...but you're not a martial character. Performance feats are where the bard shines.
Examine my previous suggestion again; everything is in there for a solid reason:
* Halfling w/two levels of paladin for Divine Grace will be granting your character +5 to all saves versus the human cava/bard by 3rd level, and the disparity widens with every CHA bonus increase. With all those 11s and 12s, you're going to need those saves unless your GM is a total creampuff who pulls punches to the point that attribute scores barely matter.
* Halfling gets DEX to 14, qualifying you for ranged feats like Deadly Aim.
* Fleet of Foot lets a halfling move 30'
* Magical Knack offsets minimal multiclassing
* Lucky Halfling saves the lives of your allies by permitting rerolls (very, very good in conjunction with paladin's Divine Grace)
* Divine Hunter archetype grants Precise Shot without prerequisites. EWP:repeating crossbow gives you a ranged weapon with an extended threat-range, ideal for exploiting the numeric bonuses to damage granted by Inspire Courage, Smite, and Deadly Aim. Eventually you'll have a Keen repeater giving you an almost 50% chance per round of scoring a threat once you're up to three attacks per (easy enough with Rapid Shot and Haste).
* A paladin2/bard18 is a massively stronger caster and Inspirer and skill monkey than a cava1/bard9/Herald10.
-- If I've managed to convince you of any of this, consider "rebuilding" your character thus:
1) No work needs to be done switching cavalier to paladin because, sans anything awesome at 1st, they're just a d10 hit-die and weapon profs you took at first level like lots of player do. You're not even losing a horse.
2) The halfling part is just as easy. The Alter Self scroll you'd cast when you interviewed for the job wore off! Ta-dah! All done. Your PC will talk his way out of it when he suddenly shrinks after the party is down the road.
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I feel like Druid and Summoner are the best ones, ignore DCs buff your companion to the high heavens and summon things or use no DC spells.
I'd actually go druid overall cause you could buff your companion and then turn into a raven or eventually a small air elemental and just hide out of sight.
After those Spiritualist (anger phantom) and maybe hunter seem like the best bets
Avoid prestige classes like the plague if you're a caster and the PrC does not advance spellcasting
This doesn't necessarily apply to a Bard, as Bards aren't just spellcasters, and full BAB isn't a bad thing.
But it does apply here, because a Bard with no physical stats above 12 is a terrible martial, so spellcaster is the way to go.
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Advancing Inspire Courage bonus covers for depreciating BAB. Higher level bard spells are amazing. (IMO the only martial builds aided by inclusion of bard are battle-dancing dervishes who've managed to cheese in glaive usage.)Avoid prestige classes like the plague if you're a caster and the PrC does not advance spellcastingThis doesn't necessarily apply to a Bard, as Bards aren't just spellcasters, and full BAB isn't a bad thing.
But it does apply here, because a Bard with no physical stats above 12 is a terrible martial, so spellcaster is the way to go.
He's going to have it bad enough avoiding ranged attacks and making saves of any kind. For example, a bard is normally expected to make reflex saves versus AoE and eat half damage. But if he eats full damage in a low-HP build, death comes swiftly. Thus my rationale for the halfling + pally2 chassis to get his saves up to the rest of the party, perhaps even a little better to protect low HP.
I remember in 1st or 2nd Edition, there was an NPC cleric with a 4 Dex, and her temple kept trying to foist her off on the PCs because she kept breaking their stuff. Through clumsiness.Sounds like Linu from NWN-Neverwinter in Forgotten Realms
I forget her name, but she was in a source book that was kind of old when I read it in the early-to-mid 1990s. I'm pretty sure (but not 100% sure) it was a Greyhawk reference.
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What an interesting question!
For the original 11 11 10 9 12 12 array, a summoner would definitely be optimal. Synthesist would give your character more survivability as long as your party is willing to rest once its hp are exhausted. You wouldn't even really miss the extra actions because you get so few spells anyways. Get something with arms and build for archery, and your 3/4 BAB should be enough to let you contribute significantly. If using Unchained, and if you choose an azata eidolon, you get to start with arms and have a decent Dex. But if you want to start out with some other serpentine eidolon, you can take on a melee role for first level and then switch to archery when you get your arms at 2nd.
Honestly, the array as posted ironman would work for a synthesist, but I would rejigger to: Str 10, Dex 9, Con 11, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 12. Of the core races, halfling or gnome would actually be really nice: the Strength penalty doesn't make much difference when you're out of your eidolon, while the Dex and Con do. The Charisma bonus is the most important because you need to start ramping Cha up quick to get all your bonus spells. This build would be feat-starved, though, so going human (or half-elf with ancestral arms racial trait) certainly wouldn't be a bad idea.
Pick up the normal archery feats - starting with Martial Weapon Proficiency (longbow) if you don't want to dip into a full BAB class for it - and focus on utility spells and buff spells. AKA what summoners do already. Pick up the basic gtfo skills and get a Charisma headband as soon as you can.
(An interesting proposition would be to just give the character with these s+@~ty rolls a more powerful monster race, perhaps something with 1 HD already, and let them add a class level to that. With a CR 1 monster's ability score increases, the character would much more likely be able to fulfill any desired role and survive first level.)
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For the original 11 11 10 9 12 12 array, a summoner would definitely be optimal. Synthesist would...
...turn him into a table-hog immediately and intensely loathed by everyone present, including (and especially) the GM.
-- And that's when it works.
When it doesn't (more likely, given that the OP is a newer player without the backlog of monster knowledge and system mastery necessary to run it smoothly), everybody's fun grinds to a halt while the game's most complicated gobbledygook splatbook archetype's obtuseness is hair-split under a scanning-electron microscope. (And then somebody will bring up it being punted out of PFS for being the biggest PITA in Golarion for a judge to adjudicate.)
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Well I wasn't expecting any build advice. But since you seem to be willing, I'll also post my build plan for some critique.
The AP is Kingmaker, we have not gotten past level 2 at this point. My group seems to want me to take the leadership/ face role since I can't do much else. So I decided to try at Battle Herald so I could provide some decent buffs and other combat buffs. I also want to fill a skill monkey roll on the side.
Human Bard 9/ Daring Champion Cavalier 1/ Battle Herald 10
I have to say that planning out this guy for 20 levels does get you some kind of Optimist award. ;-)