We won't be sure until we know what ways there are to bypass stamina points and do damage directly to hit points regardless of how many stamina points a PC has. I do recall reading that Starfinder playtesters generally did not worry much about losing stamina points but became terrified when they started losing actual hit points.
Well Starfinder has a sort of tiered gear system where higher level equipment has more damage die, but there are no level-based prerequisites for using that equipment. So, in theory if you wanted people to be more dangerous you'd just have to step up their gear so they hit harder. 10 guards with standard 1d6 rifles might not be scary but one guard with an anti-matter rifle that does 6d6 per shot is much more terrifying
Well Starfinder has a sort of tiered gear system where higher level equipment has more damage die, but there are no level-based prerequisites for using that equipment. So, in theory if you wanted people to be more dangerous you'd just have to step up their gear so they hit harder. 10 guards with standard 1d6 rifles might not be scary but one guard with an anti-matter rifle that does 6d6 per shot is much more terrifying
That sounds less terrifying and more encouraging. You get to fight the same wimpy guards that are off the RNG with respect to attack and defense numbers, but they explode into fabulous prizes when you pop them instead of a pile of pea-shooters.
The guard could always have a contract with his company that states the gear is recalled via some kind of teleportation if he's incapacitated in combat. I know it's cheap but it addresses the issue of lethality even if it upsets the players. Either that or everyone has gear higher than their level and everyone dies in like 2 hits, depending on what kind of game you wanna run.
We know that once you hit 0 HP you lose Resolve, and once at resolve 0 you are dead. So it's relatively hard to get to 0 HP, but relatively easy to die after that.
Well Starfinder has a sort of tiered gear system where higher level equipment has more damage die, but there are no level-based prerequisites for using that equipment. So, in theory if you wanted people to be more dangerous you'd just have to step up their gear so they hit harder. 10 guards with standard 1d6 rifles might not be scary but one guard with an anti-matter rifle that does 6d6 per shot is much more terrifyingThat sounds less terrifying and more encouraging. You get to fight the same wimpy guards that are off the RNG with respect to attack and defense numbers, but they explode into fabulous prizes when you pop them instead of a pile of pea-shooters.
Well there are other possibilities: gene lock, heart monitor and other surveillance system which are linked to lock-down or self destruct mechanisms
The guard could always have a contract with his company that states the gear is recalled via some kind of teleportation if he's incapacitated in combat. I know it's cheap but it addresses the issue of lethality even if it upsets the players. Either that or everyone has gear higher than their level and everyone dies in like 2 hits, depending on what kind of game you wanna run.
The issue isn't that binary. There are totally other ways you could handle it, especially without denying players treasure with a method as insulting as AD&D Drow gear.
For instance, you could just accept that mook guards aren't going to be a plausible threat to high level characters, and that's okay. Characters are going to grow out of certain threats. Especially since levels are a semi-measurable thing that make you physically tougher and able to survive more shots to the dome piece.
I wasn't trying to present it as a binary issue, apologies if I made it seem that way, I was simply trying to suggest a solution to the specific example made in the original post. Obviously there are plenty of ways to challenge higher level parties but if you wanted to keep people as threats it's easier with Starfinder than Pathfinder due to the way weapons work.
Let's consider a few things:
Firstly, loot. Having good weapons that teleport away or are unusable is kind of a jerk move, at least if you're doing it more than once. So let's instead say that encounters have a fixed value that they can have. From some discussion on scaling, it sounds like one really good gun just doesn't match up against the fifty somewhat weaker guns that you could get for the same price. The scaling is set up such that, if you have enough people, buying cheaper guns in bulk is the scarier option. Since PCs don't generally have enough people, they can't use those guns, and sell them (presumably) at half price. Now, as before, lots of guards are scary.
Secondly, one-shot items. Your players are going to be more cautious after six grenades come rolling out from around the corner.
Thirdly, Solarian, Mystic, Technomancer, Mechanic, Envoy, Operative, and Soldier. Every class has a way to address this problem as an NPC guard. Let's take a group of seven guards, each with a cheap longarm and a cheap small firearm. The one exception is a larger figure with a heavy weapon and tanky armor.
- Solarian ignores the weapons, possibly tossing them aside, and charges in with a plasma sword created from nothing. He makes it difficult for the PCs to return fire.
- Mystic ignores the weapons, and begins trying to mind control or confuse PCs to turn them on one another.
- Technomancer picks one of the people firing, and uses spells to attach major damage bonuses on the shots.
- Mechanic either calls in a drone and starts firing with the small firearm (augmented by his ally), or has been specced as a weapon specialist and augments his own longarm.
- Envoy fires off weak small firearm shots occasionally, but mostly just gives bonuses to the other six, making them deadlier.
- Operative uses that small firearm with deadly effectiveness, attaching class-granted riders to it.
- Soldier, the only immediately obvious threat, pulls out a huge weapon that's still pretty scary despite being a level one weapon.
Despite weak weapons, those seven can be higher than first level in order to challenge the PCs.
Overall, as PCs get fancier armor, basic weapons will be less scary. Numbers can compensate for that, though. And since some things carry riders for crits, numbers also let you fish for those scarier crits. Weapons are also scarier with buffs, and there are a few classes for that. A technomancer burning through spells makes even a first level gun worth worrying about.
Ill hold off until I see how the balance feels but I already have in mind that I will probably scale weapons up if they feel week in comparison to the average PC. While I absolutely want a heroic campaign and the PCs to feel powerful I also hate when things become absolutely trivial. It breaks immersion somewhat if 10 security guards were a threat at 1st level but now at 10th I have to double the guards and add a tank. I much prefer that the threat remains somewhat constant as far as lethality to the PCs are concerned but the ease at which they dispatch them increases with level.
It's a fairly standard trope for sci-fi gear to be DNA locked to the owner. Which means looting dead bodies becomes a tad hit and miss. I expect I will use this for evil corp mercy with overpowered gear I'm not ready for my group to get hold of.
As for making guards more of a threat, I'm waiting to see the final rules before I decide this is needed.
I don't think the idea of DNA locked weapons is super unfair, it could open up a side-quest for the players to find somebody to unlock the weapons for them adding an "is it really worth the trouble" angle to big stuff they find.
I also agree with QuidEst that single-use items can be a great way to spike the power of an individual NPC temporarily, like a big dude chucking grenades or using a low-level weapon with expensive/rare ammo like a Missile Launcher with upgraded missiles or anti-matter bullets for their rifle that are either dropped from their inventory upon death or only showing that they had one or two of that ammo left. Then the enemy has an apparent reason they were such a threat but the players do not feel ripped off when they are not able to just pick up that level of power from their corpse.
Be careful with it though. I mean, the same thing exists in PF. Low level critters with all their wealth in potions or other one-shots.
You can still feel ripped off, even if there's a justification, because you're facing higher risk for less reward.
It would definitely require some finessing to make sure that there is a balance between the loot that they find on and off enemies. Maybe the guards that were tossing grenades and had a single high-grade missile just got payed and were planning on celebrating the upcoming wedding of Missile-Launcher Joe after their shift, so they all have extra credits. Or they were guarding a shipment of gear that is slightly better than what the rest were using but not dealing the damage of the single-use items they were attacking with.
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If you arm many NPC guards with grenades, the sneaky pickpocket PC gets lots of free grenades.Or just a free pin if you're pressed for time :3
Heh heh. The old "Shady Sands Shuffle." It sure brings me back.
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The DNA, or other type of weapon locking system is actually quite awesome.
The trick is that to unlock it, might require some time hacking. With also a difficulty roll to meet. Failure causes the weapon to go inert or decompose permanently.
That makes a strong weapon valuable loot, but also not usually immediately useful till you get back to your ship and put it under scanners and computers in the armory lab.
An infield speed hack could also be a possibility, but it only allows the weapon to be usable till it finishes it current ammo, then it decomposes. There is a lot of fun flexible options here.
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The DNA, or other type of weapon locking system is actually quite awesome.
The trick is that to unlock it, might require some time hacking. With also a difficulty roll to meet. Failure causes the weapon to go inert or decompose permanently.
That makes a strong weapon valuable loot, but also not usually immediately useful till you get back to your ship and put it under scanners and computers in the armory lab.
An infield speed hack could also be a possibility, but it only allows the weapon to be usable till it finishes it current ammo, then it decomposes. There is a lot of fun flexible options here.
Or you can make a skin glove from the dead being's appendage and change the setting.
Alien weapons that require unique biology or multiple arms to use, or particularly cumbersome humanoid weapons could make for interesting challenges.
If the enemy have a pintle mounted heavy gun for instance or are controlling a turret from a console.
Challenges arise around hacking, salvaging and generally creative use - maybe be PCs work together to fire a devastating weapon, or turn a defense turret on its previous operators.
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Or you can make a skin glove from the dead being's appendage and change the setting.
I would assume straight DNA would not be the only verification means. There could be a whole bunch of bio-metrics involved. In any case I don't think most people are going to be into full on gruesome dissection at any given moment. Particularly on other sentient beings corps.
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Modern finger print scanners check the heart rate as well iirc so I imagine a sci fi Dna scanner can do better.
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Or you can make a skin glove from the dead being's appendage and change the setting.I would assume straight DNA would not be the only verification means. There could be a whole bunch of bio-metrics involved. In any case I don't think most people are going to be into full on gruesome dissection at any given moment. Particularly on other sentient beings corps.
Tell that to my players lol ;)
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Cutting off the guard's hand (or at least dragging it into position) so you can access the security monitor is at least as much a trope as DNA-locked weaponry. And the latter version is quite often performed by the good guys.
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Cutting off the guard's hand (or at least dragging it into position) so you can access the security monitor is at least as much a trope as DNA-locked weaponry. And the latter version is quite often performed by the good guys.
Science marches on.
The likely reactions of my players when I tell them something is biologically locked:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX7l0dG2HNE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MojRWyM5UAU
(the two videos are slightly graphic, both being from the video game DOOM)
One possible solution is gun arms. They'd need to be hooked up to use. Which means they cost the PC an arm.
Good weapons can cost an arm and a leg anyway, so from where I'm sitting, that sounds like a pretty good deal.
I hate metaphors anyway. Just keep it straightforward.
Funny thing about crossbows; a crossbow bolt is more lethal than a bullet. The reason why bullets are better is because higher kinetic force allowed it to penetrate armor easier (though crossbows themselves are great at penetrating armor). But now we're in the non-descript space fantasy future armor is just as effective against a bullet as it against crossbow bolts.
Anyways, don't worry about it. There was an article talking about weapons and their damage. Your first level weapon isn't that much more powerful than your average crossbow. As you get higher in level you are granted access to more lethal weaponry. And there is nothing that says there couldn't be cool sci fi crossbows (or rather specialized ammo) that keeps them on par with an anti matter sniper cannon.
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It's a fairly standard trope for sci-fi gear to be DNA locked to the owner. Which means looting dead bodies becomes a tad hit and miss. I expect I will use this for evil corp mercy with overpowered gear I'm not ready for my group to get hold of.
As for making guards more of a threat, I'm waiting to see the final rules before I decide this is needed.
Until that DNA weapon his hacked. Oh yes, hacking is a thing...
