Familiar Bond, Why so Expensive?

[ForestDew]

Whenever I look at the Familiar Bond/Improved Familiar Bond feats, I wonder why it cost so must feats to get a familiar. I understand the Iron Will prerequisite, but in the end, it cost 3 feats just to have full abilities with a relatively squishy pet that expensive to replace.
So why is it is so expensive in feats?

[John Murdock]

the reason i can think of it is because a familiar give you either +3 to a skill, +1 to natural ac or +2 to a save, it also have half you HP as its HP (think of a barbarian now instead of a wizard) it use you HD or its HD (whichever is higher) for effect related to HD it has you BAB (now think again for that barbarian instead of a wizard) the familiar use either your skill rank or its skill rank for his skill but use its ability bonus, it gain natural AC over time, INT, it give you alertness (has long it is withing arm reach) and have a lot of other abilities like a spell resistance, so i think it is worth the 3 feat, its like if you want an animal companion you need 3 feat to have it has if you were a druid of the same lvl

[Ascalaphus]

Because a familiar is really that good.

[Chess Pwn]

Yeah, "optimally used" familiars offer a LOT since they are another pool of actions. Especially if you go another feat for improved familiar. They are basically leadership lite.

[Saldiven]

Improved Familiar with a Faerie Dragon. It casts as a sorcerer, so can use any Sorcerer/Wizard wand you choose to give it. With the right combination of wands (with buffs like Haste, various area control spells), it's effectively giving your character limitless access to a Quickened Spell that doesn't actually use your character's Swift Action.

Your character effectively gets two Perception rolls any time they're needed; take the highest result.

Depending on the familiar you take, there is all sorts of silliness possible with a Familiar.

[toastedamphibian]

Chess Pwn wrote:

They are basically leadership lite.

Which is only 1 feat.

[Chess Pwn]

toastedamphibian wrote:

Chess Pwn wrote:

They are basically leadership lite.

Which is only 1 feat.

And totally broken. I wouldn't allow it if it was a 4 feat chain. Improved familiars barely squeak in due to the limited options and bonuses they can provide.

[Saldiven]

Chess Pwn wrote:

toastedamphibian wrote:

Chess Pwn wrote:

They are basically leadership lite.

Which is only 1 feat.

And totally broken. I wouldn't allow it if it was a 4 feat chain. Improved familiars barely squeak in due to the limited options and bonuses they can provide.

Like Chess says; Leadership can totally break a game.

There's a reason so many GMs don't allow it.

[toastedamphibian]

I agree.

[John Murdock]

one of the reason it break the game is that people treat their cohort like if it was just another set of feat and a robot slave, GM should play the cohort when there a RP reason for it and not let player to have their cohort exist only for their need, a cohort should always be supervised by a GM, like if a player want to create a cohort to have him to have all the item creation feat it should be no, using a feat to gain access to a bunch of creation feat to help the group paying less for an item its a big no-no in my eyes

[Chess Pwn]

John Murdock wrote:

one of the reason it break the game is that people treat their cohort like if it was just another set of feat and a robot slave, GM should play the cohort when there a RP reason for it and not let player to have their cohort exist only for their need, a cohort should always be supervised by a GM, like if a player want to create a cohort to have him to have all the item creation feat it should be no, using a feat to gain access to a bunch of creation feat to help the group paying less for an item its a big no-no in my eyes

Still, even in the "correct use" case having an extra wizard that can always caste haste opening up the real wizard to cast a better spell.

having a guy (riving strike, cornugon smash bloodrager with a cruel weapon for -6, or autohypnotist mesmerist that intimidates with a cruel weapon gets -7 will drop) tank enemy saves for the sleep Witch to knock out.
having a wizard/cleric for just tons of utility spells prepared that sits out of combat.
Like it's insanely powerful having another set of actions that are good enough for what the players need.

Like even with familiars you can go greater feint teamwork feat to have a little snake on you feint the enemy that the rogue full attacks.

[Melkiador]

Think of it like this.

1) Iron Will is a solid choice for most classes, so it's barely a feat tax.

2) Familiar Bond: You gain the benefits of the alertness feat and get a creature that can scout and fetch for you.

3) Improved Familiar Bond: You gain the benefits similar to a feat like Improved Initiative and some other abilities of variable usefulness depending on your class.

[Chess Pwn]

And there's even a trait that counts as iron will for the feat line, making it only 1 trait and 2 feats for a full familiar.