So, Adventurer's Armory 2 added a lot of fun new stuff for Improvised Weapons that makes an Improvised Weapons build a LOT more viable.Particularly the new gloves that are Amulets of Mighty Fists but for Improvised Weapons.
So other than Monk of the Empty Hand, What's the best class for an IW build?
Fighter is always nice for the Feats, but there's no way I know of to get your Weapon Training bonuses with your Improvised Weapon, so you're pretty much always better off with a "Real" Weapon.
I'm thinking Ranger or Slayer.
Full BAB, Ranger weapon styles give access to pertinent extra combat feats (with the bonus of not having to meet the prerequisites), and Favored Enemy or Studied Target gives the bonuses to hit and damage that I want but can't get from Weapon Training.Thoughts?
I've been thinking far strike monk. 2 levels of that gets you point blank shot, precise shot, quick draw, flurry with thrown, great saves, wis to AC. Add a few level of fighter and you round out your ranged feats nicely. Take halfling as your race, and you can take the option to use improvised weapons with no penalty without any feats.
So, let's say I go some route with Sneak Attack.
With Catch Off Guard, any unarmed foe is considered flat footed, so I get my sneak attack.
Which Combat Maneuver is my best choice?
1> Disarm, make them drop their weapon
2> Sunder, Break the weapon
3> Dirty Trick, just Blind them to make them lose Dex to AC so I can Sneak Attack.
I have never had much luck with Catch Off Guard and unarmed. Disarm a weapon, they have a shield. Get rid of the shield, they have gauntlets. Or they have a natural weapon. Or spiked armor. Or carrying a torch [imp weapon]. or...
Maybe in an urban, sneaking type adventure it could shine...
PS: Dirty Trick can be useless or amazing depending on the DM, as it's all up to him when, where, how, ect it works if it works at all. Talk with the DM beforehand and make sure it's going to be worthwhile before you take.
Sunder: Remember, this destroys your treasure and it's not a guarantee of unarmed. Destroyed as a weapon doesn't mean all of it vanishes. A hilt, snapped off haft, ect can be ruled an imp weapon so chopping off the blade, snapping the pole, ect may not let you sneak attack. Remember this works both ways, so it'll be important either way.
Disarm: IMO, best option. However, a med+ armored dude with sword and shield means you have to get rid of a sword, shield, and 2 gauntlets before you sneak attack. Even disarming a bow might mean having to disarm the arrow they have in the other hand.
The Gloves of Improvised Might and Quickmetal Bracers would be great for a Gravedigger Investigator which can use tools like shovels and lanterns without the non-proficiency penalty. It isn't the most powerful option, but it would let you build the Shoveler.
Actually, if this Amulet the OP mentioned translates roughly in value to Mighty Fists, that static +3 to attack from traits may make improvised weapons even stronger than normal ones.
Surprise Weapon and Rough and Ready both grant Trait Bonuses to attacks, so they don't stack. Having both Traits would grant a +2 bonus (which is still nice) rather than +3.
gauntlets.
There has been debates over gauntlets for years. Pointing out it's an unarmed attack doesn't actually answer anything when they have 'armed' unarmed attacks that aren't counted as you being unarmed... Then add in possible spiked gauntlets.
Gauntlets still count as unarmed strikes.
unarmed strikes can be 'armed' unarmed attacks. Gauntlets are rumored to be getting a FAQ/errata so maybe someday we'll get answers. Until then, don't be surprised if you find a DM that disagrees with you on how a gauntlet works.
Specifically carry a pouch full of some sort of powder on my belt for use with Dirty Trick?
"I throw Sand in his eyes"
DM: Where do you get the sand?
"From the bag of sand I carry at all times on my belt."
If you can get a DM to allow it to work with any regularity, then great for you. I could expect 'his helmet has a visor so it does nothing', 'the wind is blowing', 'it's raining' ... I've had DM not like the nebulous nature of the maneuver and look for any reason to NOT have it work. If the DM thinks you're 'cheating' by using it, possible over and over and over again, you're going to have a bad time...
It's the reason I skip right over any new material for dirty trick. I normally have a new DM every time so I go for options that don't have built in questions/dm fiat involved.
gauntlets.There has been debates over gauntlets for years. Pointing out it's an unarmed attack doesn't actually answer anything when they have 'armed' unarmed attacks that aren't counted as you being unarmed... Then add in possible spiked gauntlets.
Gauntlets still count as unarmed strikes.unarmed strikes can be 'armed' unarmed attacks. Gauntlets are rumored to be getting a FAQ/errata so maybe someday we'll get answers. Until then, don't be surprised if you find a DM that disagrees with you on how a gauntlet works.
...
In June 2016, after the "Herolab FAQ" was discovered, Jason Bulmahn said that the Design Team would discuss the issue of gauntlets soon. In July 2016 Mark Seifter mentioned that this topic was being expedited through the FAQ queue. I haven't seen anything since then, but that's hardly unusual for a FAQ request.
I've always been a fan of the Alchemist just because of the free feat "Throw Anything". If you like using improvised weapons, this is an extremely fun and weird style of play. Basically anything in the room just became a viable weapon you can throw. Imagine walking into a room with a full weapon rack sitting next to a table with a bunch of bubbling potions and extracts :) Everything in the room is a weapon :)
Then use Bolas as your primary weapon and maybe even get Weapon Focus for Bola, and see if your DM will allow you to attach two "bombs/potions" to the ends of your assortment of Bolas. Ranged Trip + Alchemist's Fire/Spider's Web.
You can do just about the same thing with any other class with the "Throw Anything" feat if you actually just buy the feat, though.
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Thanks for collecting the info Gisher. I expect there is a lot to figure out as part of the game treat the gauntlet as a weapon and another part treats it as simple equipment so getting everything to reflect just one aspect is going to be a pain.
IMO, they should be equipment that offers modifiers to unarmed strikes: This could offers the ability to add weapon special features to unarmed strikes. For instance, knuckle blades could change damage type to S, wrist hook could add trip, ect. I don't think they actually will go that far in 'fixing' them, but I can't wait to see what they come up with.
Ryze Kuja, just make the character a halfling and you don't have to worry about taking "Throw Anything" at all AND you you count as having it for prerequisites. It's win/win.
VMC Magus works to enchant them further. I probably wouldn't go full magus because a 20/x2 crit is not what a magus lives for. An occultist maybe for even more weapon enchantments?
VMC Magus works to enchant them further. I probably wouldn't go full magus because a 20/x2 crit is not what a magus lives for. An occultist maybe for even more weapon enchantments?
While it'd be quite nice to use the arcane pool, it'd depend of type of combat you're using if it's worth it.
If you plan to thrown improvised weapons I don't think you can afford to spend 1/2 your feats on it. Maybe if you take a class with plenty of bonus feats but I still think it'd be mighty feat starved.
If you plan on melee, you're much better off using a VMC.
it is only with a specific improvised weapon but living grimoire is so far the only thing that allow an improvised weapon to also count as being proficient in (his holy book of smiting) so lets you take feats like weapon focus, also the damage is scaled up like warpriests!
it is only with a specific improvised weapon but living grimoire is so far the only thing that allow an improvised weapon to also count as being proficient in (his holy book of smiting) so lets you take feats like weapon focus, also the damage is scaled up like warpriests!
Sadly Living Grimoire was FAQnerfed so that your book is not treated as an improvised weapon but as a simple weapon :(
The breaker Barbarian archetype hasn't been mentioned. I'd combine it with Savage Technologist for some nice switch hitting action. Get a nice two handed firearm an murder foes from afar. Once they close with you or your gun decides that now is a good time to become malfuncional use it as a beat stick. Surprise weapon paired with the new amulet + rage makes you good at melee (especially if the amulet can be made furious...)
You can easily split up your stats between STR and DEX and be fully functional with a firearm and in melee. You should probably go human to pick up all gun related feats asap. Main issue is that the build only really picks up at Level 5.
Rage powers can be used for defense and utility.
Makeshift Scrapper Rogue Archtype.
1) You give up trapfinding for Catch off Guard and Throw Anything.
2) At later levels it gives you Imp. Weapon Mastery
I'd then use Arrows as the improvised weapon with Chairbeaker.
Since they're ammo, drawing them is pretty easy. You can throw them for damage, or you can stab with them. Breaking them isn't a problem either, as one gold piece would give you 20 of them.
Since they're actually weapons too, you could get them with all kinds of extra effects too.
Adamantine, Cold Iron, Silver, etc
The question comes when you start using ones like blunt or incinerator arrows
Darche Schneider: Adventurer's armory 2 list arrows/bolts as light improvised weapons "(as melee weapons)". As such, it seems they can't be used as ranged weapons or do less damage doing so.
Phb lists daggers as melee weapons too. So its a bit of a murkey grey area.
Phb lists daggers as melee weapons too. So its a bit of a murkey grey area.
Well Daggers also can't be drawn as free actions...assuming that was the intent behind arrows.
Phb lists daggers as melee weapons too. So its a bit of a murkey grey area.
Improvised weapons have a default range of 10'. Listing arrows as melee seems less murky than you make it out to be since there is no reason to list melee JUST for them, out of a dozen or two weapons, unless there was a reason to.
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I've seen bards of all things do particularly well. Using the arcane strike feat, plus the ability to self-buff from spells and performances can make a melee-centered bard (or skald) do surprisingly well. My friend made Ptorious Jingleheimer-Schmitt, a trombone-playing bard who beat people with his trombone as he played it, and it ended up a solid build.
A thought just crossed my mind so I decided to bring this thread back up.
The rock throwing Oracle... are rocks improvised weapons? If so this would...
A thought just crossed my mind so I decided to bring this thread back up.
The rock throwing Oracle... are rocks improvised weapons? If so this would...
Looking at the rock throwing monster ability and the oracle ability, they are treated as weapons and not improvised.
The reason I come to this conclusion is that the abilities never mentions removing nonproficiency or the –4 penalty on attack rolls improvised gets. So it'd be a weapon attack or an improvised one with a -4 attack. IMO it seems more likely they meant it to be an attack without a minus. This is further shown by looking at giants listings with the ability and noting the lack of improvised penalties.
The brawler has some issues depending on who reads it.
But one that is even better, is the Channeler Occultist. Can get the whole shikigami style, and can enchant equipment easily.
Magus. You don't use a sledge, you use a metamagic rod. They all have CL 17 which means they're +4 weapons with shikigami style, that all do 3d6 damage.
You take improvisational focus to have proficiency and weapon focus in improvised weapons, which should be enough for your magus arcana to further enchant them.
Then you beat people with your rod. I dont know if you have enough feats to go down the rime spell debuff magus road but thats probably where i'd go with it.