CryntheCrow's page

Archery is far and away the strongest weapon choice. IF you are willing to invest literally every feat you get into it, and gauge your choice by damage output and the consistency of that damage. By contrast, I tend to think of two handed as the most effective choice in game simply due to the fact that you only really need one feat, power attack, to be a reliable threat. You can make tons of characters invested in utility or defense or just plain cool shit. In many ways, archery reflects all the worst aspects of optimization. Boring, samey builds that really only vary a little bit by class.

Remember to have all the worst monologues. And have all the other party members inform the rest of the world about how great you are and amazing to follow, but don't ever actually show that.

Have really uncomfortable messianic moments of you riding a sea of worshipping brown people, but keep up pretenses of 'freeing' them as you conscript/rule them.

When people bring up the problems with your plan based on history or a lack of foundation with your birthright, imply mass amounts of dragon fire will solve all of these. Then assure all possible detractors that you'll be different from the OTHER dragon people who ravaged their countryside for centuries.

Use your birthright to justify your claim to rule at every possible moment, but deny any connection to the history of that birthright, because that would be unfair. :(

You are now ready to go forth and 'break the wheel.'

Prerequisite: Cha 13, werebat-kin.

Benefit: You can take the form of a bat whose appearance is static and cannot be changed each time you assume this form. You gain a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks to appear as a bat. Changing from werebat-kin to bat shape is a standard action. This ability otherwise functions as beast shape II, and your ability scores change accordingly.

If you wear a bat pelt, you may choose to adopt a form resembling the bat whose skin you wear instead of your normal bat form.

So, heres the problem. I supposedly assume the form of a bat, which is a Diminutive animal, but Beast Shape II only allows me access to Tiny animals. RAW, what stats should I be receiving?

CryntheCrow wrote:

Actually, if this Amulet the OP mentioned translates roughly in value to Mighty Fists, that static +3 to attack from traits may make improvised weapons even stronger than normal ones.

Surprise Weapon and Rough and Ready both grant Trait Bonuses to attacks, so they don't stack. Having both Traits would grant a +2 bonus (which is still nice) rather than +3.

You're not wrong. Still, thats effectively 3 feats for 2 traits, which are supposed to roughly equal a feat together.

Actually, if this Amulet the OP mentioned translates roughly in value to Mighty Fists, that static +3 to attack from traits may make improvised weapons even stronger than normal ones.

Barbarian. Two Handed power attack is the best route for low-investment big-return gameplay, and no one comes better out of the box for that than the barbarian. Pick Surprise Weapon and Rough and Ready as your traits for an impressive +3 bonus to your attack rolls AND pseudo-proficiency with woodcutting axes, shovels, etc. All right from level 1. Not having to invest feats and like leaves you with a barbarian with a respectable accuracy, good damage, and any other features you want like strength surge or combat maneuvers, as well as pounce in the later levels. Only realy weakness is the lack of DR piercing, but not having to invest your gold in your weapon gives you other options. Plus, I think a real argument could be made that enchanting improvised weapons as weapons is completely within the rules. I mean, I can enchant a shield as a weapon, right? Why not a shovel?

Paladin is a strong choice, given the nature of his conflict. Admittedly, he's simply using a good-aligned weapon to pierce Aku's insane DR, but if you can't really go wrong with a tortured crusader paladin. Charisma is easily Jack's weak point, but Tortured Crusader lets him sub Wis as his casting stat, as well as provide static, generally powerful bonuses when fighting evil that can represent his righteous rage since the beginning of the series, or the armor proficiency from later in it. Not to mention, the Wis combos well with monk for the additional ac if you go the kimono route.

Core or Unchained, does anyone know of a way to get Sense Vitals on a class with full sneak attack progression?

Ah damn. Yeah, even if they were, the fourth feat would bring you to Lawful Evil even if you started at chaotic good. So you'd be unable to get the most powerful effect, rendering the build moot. Missed that in my initial reading.

Power Attack->Damnation Feats->Intimidate Feats Fighter.

Fully decked out, a fighter can use soulless gaze to intimidate as a swift action, move action, and standard, and also bring them below shaken into the frightened status. High damage by merit of 2-handed power attacking/Hurtful. Immunity to multiple elements based on your devil patron. Outsider status to make them immune to humanoid targeting spells. This man can chop you up, resist a lot of what you throw at him, and turn even the most hardened warrior into a cowering mess just by staring him down for a round. As a fighter, he'll also be surprisingly quick in his hellknight armor. Trading his soul to emulate the powers of the infernal, this agent of hell IS the law.

Thats how I run my BBEG warrior anyways.

Right, was kind of wondering if there was anything people could add to the build, to give it some different facets beyond granting AC.

Hey there guys. So, anyone who plays this game knows that the fighter is the absolute master of picking one niche thing and doing it better than anyone. I was wondering if he could maybe be effective in a support role as well. Here's my idea, and I'm looking for some help to expand.

A full defense-buffing master of the tower shield. No attacking, pure support, but VERY defensive in your own right. We'll need strength 18 to handle a tower shield with full plate as a light load while leaving room for a weapon, while 14 con and dex will round out our defense a bit. Here's the thing. Magic armor enchantment is cheap. Literally half the cost of a weapon. So upgrading your armor and tower shield together costs as much as upgrading a weapon, which we likely won't be doing.

Here's how the character functions. While using total defense at level 4 with full plate, a tower shield, shield focus and 14 dex as a fighter, we get a cumulative 32 AC. So we're basically untouchable against regular attacks, and investing in the mobile bulwark feats? Pretty good against touch attacks. But we're using total defense, so how do we stop the enemies from simply wrecking our party members? Well, with the helpful trait and bodyguard, we can increase anyone's ac by 3 against a single attack. Heres the cool thing though: That cheap, high enhancement bonus we'll be buying on out armor? For 2000 extra, not counting towards our total enhancement bonus, we can add Benevolent, which lets us add our enhancement bonus to our armor on aid another checks. This lets use raise our bodyguard to a potential +8 ac on bodyguard checks. A bonus, I'll point out, that will only cost 28,500 for +5 Benevolent Full Plate.

Further, at level 6, we get Covering Defense. What's covering defense do? When you total defense, you get to add your FULL shield bonus, INCLUDING enhancement bonus to an ally's AC. So, assuming a +1 tower shield at level 6, we can add +6 to an ally's ac just standing next to them. Thats a 30% reduction in hit that STACKS with whatever we can offer from bodyguard. Your barbarian is going to love you.

In short? Fairly easily, a fighter can transfer his FULL shield bonus and the enhancement bonus on his armor to an ally of his choice.

1- Combat Reflexes
1b- Bodyguard
1Human- Shield Focus
2- Missile Shield
3- Mobile Bulwark Style
4- Mobile Fortress
5- Covering Shield
6- Covering Defense
7- Mobile Stronghold
8- Greater Shield Focus

I'm considering dropping feats like missile shield and maybe some style feats to pick up Nature Soul, Animal Ally and Boon Companion. Since we have a free hand when we don't wield a weapon, we can also pick up Flagbearer, and at higher levels can invest some of our plentiful leftover gold for a Banner of Ancient Kings to double its effect.

Any criticisms and alternate build ideas would be greatly appreciated. Still refining everything.

Since we're all talking about interpretation: The quintessential Barbarian in a world of rogues, fighters and rangers.

POTENTIAL GOT SPOILERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOdgni3h15M

CryntheCrow wrote:

Scales well? Secret, you tell me with a straight face that there is a single stance power you would spend a move action in the first round of combat to activate at level 12 instead of just getting in the damage from a pounce, and I'll call you... well, someone not versed in ending encounters.

I'll hop in here. There are instances where you can't charge, so you can't pounce. Also, I'd point out that there is a stance that gives you the ability to heal your temp hp from rage in unchained barbarian, which stacks with your damage reduction.

A lot of your arguments seem to boil down to the fact that unchained barbarian isn't your idea of barbarian, so it's the worst written class. I'm not saying that you can't have a favorite way to play a character, I'm just saying that you should acknowledge that your way of playing a barbarian isn't the same as someone else's way of playing a barbarian, which is fine; I think, however, that there are plenty of classes or archetypes that need working on, and the unchained barbarian isn't one of them (I'm looking at you synthesist summoner!).

By this logic, we can dismiss any concept of conveying ideas through mechanics. Let me ask you something. If I made a glorified fighter class who had no ability cast spells or produce magical effects, would it be alright to call the class Spellslinger? Could I write in the description about how the class is meant to embody a caster who uses runic tattoos inscribed on their body to produce magical phenomena if I didn't actually include a system for taking these tattoos? The answer is, I COULD, but it would be BAD design. Perhaps not in an absolute, objective sense. But in a 'most people with any knowledge on the subject would reject it' sense.

So. If we have a class feature named rage that is supposed to embody a group of people who know, by the class' own description "only rage," and who "know little of training, preparation, or the rules of warfare; for them, only the moment exists, with the foes that stand before them and the knowledge that the next moment might hold their death.".. be honest. Does this sound like a class that is better conveyed through an 'angry stance' system? If you had to write up a class that was fueled by primal rage, would you make their defining feature one that delays them jumping into combat? I would imagine no. I'm not even talking power. Its a bad system on the grounds of conveying the concept of a raging powerhouse.

Sure, they could have thought about that if they had 20/20 vision like you, who sees Unchained after Occult Adventures is out. But then again, that's just your preference too.

Stances are fine. They are powerful, they scale well, and they are a great way to gate super strong rage powers like Deadly Accuracy or Ymeri's Fire.

I like everything about UnBarb except move to activate stances and no baseline bonus to CMB while raging.

And you know what? That's a much shorter list than I have for 99% of the other classes. I could go on and on about many others. For the UnBarb? That one line.

Scales well? Secret, you tell me with a straight face that there is a single stance power you would spend a move action in the first round of combat to activate at level 12 instead of just getting in the damage from a pounce, and I'll call you... well, someone not versed in ending encounters. No one, short of a massive, powerful benefit, is going to substitute a full attack for a move and a standard. Maybe, MAYBE a combat maneuver build. So, theres something. The unchained barbarian may be a more consistent grappler on every roll than a chained. Of course, he won't have strength surge, so worse overall. But, if you want your barbarian grappler to feel like a fighter? Woot.

Huh. Strange. I came to a thread about he worst class, but Swashbucklers don't get a Rage ability. You might want to reread their entry, Cryn, I think you got the names mixed up.

But in all seriousness. Unchained Barbarian is at least functional. Stances as a move action is annoying and the really should have a way to make it a Swift at some point, but you're otherwise dealing with a 4 skill, full BAB chasis with a ready supply of toggled better-at-fighting buffing and access to a modest list of talents.

Hah, I actually really liked the Swashbuckler when it came out. Still do, even if its got some glaring weaknesses. At the time, I remember actually thinking it to be a definitive example of power creep, since if was a high ac, full bab dex fighter who could deflect touch attacks with a riposte (infinitely, before the signature deed faq), and it was our first true example of dex to damage that didn't involve a scimitar.

I remember in-game getting my swashbuckler mind-controlled, and making the power gamer shocking grasp magus a little angry as I idly brushed his touch attacks away like he was an annoyance.

I love the UnBarb.

I feel like it's a much better designed class than the Barb and has more room to be generally useful.

Barb is riddled with cheese and math issues.

You could easily print cool options for the UnBarb - lack of variety is not a design issue, it's a publishing one.

@JosMartigan: You are a king among men.

Why not simply clean up the math and keep the core barbarian's strengths? If you don't like rage cycling (which I don't) then the remedy would be simple. Allow the 1/day powers to be used multiple times within a single rage. But, for every time past the first, have them take nonlethal damage akin to a kineticist's burn that only heals through actual rest. Let them go into the negatives through this process. Bam. No more heart of the fields bullshitting (or at least, not for rage cycling), and if you want, you can actually pass out exerting yourself beyond your limits. Now, theres a cost, and a limit, and a reward for significant investment.

ANYTHING would be better than the asinine stances. Thats the most insulting thing. Its the only class I look at and go: "I could do better, and I shouldn't."

The unchained barbarian isn't meant to be as powerful, it's purpose is to be simpler rather than having the character need different stats for a hundred things when they rage. It succeeds at it's intended purpose.

If you say so? I don't see how switching between a series of mutually exclusive rage powers that all alter numbers is supposed to simplify the process over having the two variables of raging/not raging. Its succeeded at simplifying numbers at the cost of conveying the concept of a barbarian. I don't call that a success.

1: Human
2: Halfling
3: Dwarf

The other two are distant, though. I almost exclusively play humans. I like to think that theres only a certain number of key characteristics one can roleplay with any sense of focus. With humans operating as a sort of neutral default, I think its easier to convey concepts without worry about applying it through the lens and perspectives of a certain race.

If you've seen my unhappy ass trolling the forums now and then, you may have noticed me occasionally bringing up my unbridled contempt for what I consider the worst class to ever slink its was into an official book. I am talking, of course, about the Unchained Barbarian.

I love the Unchained Monk, and its one of my favorite classes. I think the core rogue is a lot more customizable, but generally less focused than the Unchained rogue, and I enjoy it. The unchained summoner was necessary, and while I think the nerfs might have been a bit overboard, as someone who loves pet classes, its nice to have an incarnation of the summoner that will actually be welcome at tables, and won't earn me eyerolls from my fellow players. But the unchained barbarian... its the sort of thing you look at and say 'I can't believe I paid for this.' Its downright AMATEURISH. Its the trash feats you're never going to use and gloss over after reading once, expanded into an entire class. I'm not just talking from a power perspective, either (though it absolutely fails in that regard). I'm talking flavor. The designer of this class clearly doesn't even understand the general THEME of the barbarian.

When you think barbarian, what words come to mind? Power? Unbridled? Rage, obviously. Primal? Savage? Strong, almost universally. Maybe for one character, its a righteous fury that quells evil, Beowulf style? The core barbarian has you covered to express almost any basic concept you can conceive. And they're POWERFUL options as well. Want your barbarian to throw self-preservation to the wind and sacrifice his body to see his enemies culled? Reckless Abandon. Herculean acts of power, shattering the chains that bind him or grappling giants? Strength Surge. While not every rage power the Core Barbarian has access to is great, it does possess almost all the tools you need to realize your concept. The unchained barbarian takes away so many powerful options and replaces them with substandard substitutes, its not even funny.

I can't say for sure now, given the expanded options of the fighter, but for the majority of this game's life, the Core Barbarian has been the bar by which other martials are judged. Its powerful, flavorful, and fun. Honestly, for all the talk of caster-martial disparity, if I'm playing a barbarian, I always feel like the strongest member of the party. I'm the huge, damage-dealing, high-save juggernaut that leads the charge, breaks down the castle wall and shatters the lich upon the massive slab of iron he calls a greatsword.

The unchained barbarian, however, is just a mess. No, I'm serious, its genuinely terrible. Set aside the supposed problem of dying when your rage stops (which I never had a problem with, fighting through mortal wounds and succumbing to them after your rage subsides is VERY thematic), this so-called barbarian simply doesn't have the options a chained one does. Seriously, what unique powers did this version of the barbarian add that better realizes the concept of an unstoppable force contained in a human form, an unbridled beast contained in the guise of a man? Nothing? Oh, okay, well what did it take away? Most of the most iconic and powerful rage powers of the class? Interesting.

The unchained barbarian is a glorified (but substandard) fighter. And you want to know what makes this the most obvious? The abomination that is stance powers. Glorified style feats that cost a move action (and don't reduce this with levels, for reasons I can only assume were the designers intentionally trying to piss me off), someone working under the name of paizo thought to themselves: "Whats the best way to encapsulate pure fury towards an opponent? Ah, I know, what about a series of mutually exclusive powers that can't be combined, shoehorning barbarians into a series of numbers they want to focus on? I mean, what embodies rage more than spending the first round of combat assuming a battle stance and maybe getting into range or swinging a weapon once? Man, I bet this'll scale really well into high levels. A move action tax on a martial class, the most dependent section of classes on the action economy? People are going to LOVE this." I mean, the idea of a rage power that lets you gather your strength for a single burst of power would be pretty awesome. None of these stances reflect that, but it could be an effective way to pull off a move action cost.

I'm going to reiterate. The Unchained Barbarian is garbage. Prestige classes at least provide flavor most of the time. Most everything paizo offers seems well-meaning, if sometimes ill-conceived. This class is just terrible. I genuinely can't tell if its a product of laziness or incompetence, but I sure as hell expected a lot more out of something I paid money for. I know I'm a bit late, but then, so is Paizo's apology on printing this worthless class. Its really, REALLY that bad. They didn't even try.

I'm almost certain that firing both barrels is now it's own standard action. At least, I think the recent nerf was to ensure that these kinds of shenanigans couldn't happen. So no, it is much like Vital Strike and is its own standard action.

Intent is one thing. But they're explicitly the same action. I can ready a standard action. Vortex demands I use that on a ranged attack action. Therefore, RAW, its allowed, right?

Just realized this really should have been under Rules Questions.

"Pistol, Double-Barreled

This pistol has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be fired independently as separate attacks, or both can be fired at once as a standard action (the attack action).

If both barrels are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the pistol becomes wildly inaccurate, imparting a –4 penalty on each shot."

"Overwatch Vortex (Combat)

You are ready to respond to many more of your foes' actions.

Benefit(s): While using the Overwatch Style, as a full-round action you can ready up to four ranged attacks, each with its own triggering event. You take a –2 penalty on attack rolls made with these readied actions."

So, its largely agreed upon that Overwatch Vortex doesn't allow you to ready Vital Strikes with crossbows because it specifies 'ranged attacks', and Vital Strike is its own special kind of standard actions.

Double pistols, however, explicitly note that firing both barrels simultaneously is an attack action, and contain none of the language found in Manyshot to imply these are a singular attack roll. In fact, the language is far more similar to rapid shot.

So, fellow members of the Rules Questions board, can someone explain to me what stops a level 11 Gunslinger with Overwatch Vortex, Rapid Reload, alchemical cartridges and Improved Critical from making potentially 8 ranged attacks at touch ac, with dex to damage, 1d8 19-20 x4?

If you're playing a druid and just want the overall strongest Animal Companion, yeah, a big cat is frankly unrivaled (except by the warcat, an even bigger cat). However, the 'ultimate animal companion' class, the hunter, appreciates the stronger single blows from the single attack companions, as he'll be dealing far more damage through attacks of opportunity than a single pounce. It really depends on what you're looking for. Damage? A mount for lancing? Transport? An off-tank? Teamwork feat shenanigans? Theres a lot of strong options, and its really just a matter of need.

"Pistol, Double-Barreled

This pistol has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be fired independently as separate attacks, or both can be fired at once as a standard action (the attack action).

If both barrels are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the pistol becomes wildly inaccurate, imparting a –4 penalty on each shot."

"Overwatch Vortex (Combat)

You are ready to respond to many more of your foes' actions.

Benefit(s): While using the Overwatch Style, as a full-round action you can ready up to four ranged attacks, each with its own triggering event. You take a –2 penalty on attack rolls made with these readied actions."

So, its largely agreed upon that Overwatch Vortex doesn't allow you to ready Vital Strikes with crossbows because it specifies 'ranged attacks', and Vital Strike is its own special kind of standard actions.

Double pistols, however, explicitly note that firing both barrels simultaneously is an attack action, and contain none of the language found in Manyshot to imply these are a singular attack roll. In fact, the language is far more similar to rapid shot.

So, fellow members of the Advice board, can someone explain to me what stops a level 11 Gunslinger with Overwatch Vortex, Rapid Reload, alchemical cartridges and Improved Critical from making potentially 8 ranged attacks at touch ac, with dex to damage, 1d8 19-20 x4?

Alright, obsessing less with dipping this time (but I still got 3 in), I've made a build thats a bit less well rounded, but perhaps stronger in its specialization, and more quickly going to realize it's power.

Halfling 12 (Fighter, Hunter, Cavalier)

HP - 124 (Favored Bonus Hunter)
AC - 22; 12 Touch, 20 Flat (Full Plate, Armor Training, Halfling Bonus)
Saves - +16 Fort, +9 Ref, +5 Will

Str 12, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 10

Traits: Fools for Friends, Helpful (Halfling)
Fighter 1: Cautious Fighter, Combat Reflexes
Fighter 2: Bodyguard
Fighter 3: Blundering Defense
Fighter 4: Combat Expertise
Hunter 5: Boon Companion
Hunter 6: Outflank
Hunter 7: Pack Flanking, Broken Wing Gambit
Cavalier 8:Paired Opportunists
Hunter 9: Improved Trip
Hunter 10: N/A
Hunter 11: Greater Trip, Tandem Trip
Hunter 12: N/A

Right, so I realized the dependence on Crane style was fine if being an ac aura was all we wanted, but in truth, by cutting back just a bit we can become more powerful at what we're wanting. For this version of the build, I'm picking your mount for you, its a Wolf at 7, axe beak at 5. Its simply the best option for what we're doing.

So, drawbacks. Lower saves due to the lack of monk, dependency on equipment to make up for these shortcomings, lowers overall AC buff. With this build, minus crane style, instead of fighting defensively, your go-to action will be to spend your standard to begin a total defense. With Cautious fighter and 3 ranks of acrobatics, this gives us a total of +8 to our ac. Blundering Defense gives adjacent allies +4 ac, an overall reduction of 1 AC. Proccing Bodyguard, we still give them a +9 against attacks.

Pros, we get our companion up to snuff the moment we get him at 5. 6 is still going to be a dead level for us, but where 4 completes the support side of the build in this version, 7 gets our damage completely online. Instantly, you have a large-sized wolf that grants/gets that wonderful Outflank bonus the moment you're riding him, and you both provoke AOOs any time someone attacks you. At 8, you BOTH provoke when someone attacks EITHER of you. With a wolf's single primary natural attack, he gets the best form of power attack on all of these.

Lets describe a level 11 scenario. Someone wanders into the range of the reach weapon you wield, provoking an attack of opportunity. You trip with a cumulative +12 to the roll from trip feats, paired and outflank (And the fact that you get to roll twice). Then, after tripping successfully, your wolf attacks with a +12 of his own, exploiting the prone status. But wait, you just tripped someone. Greater trip procs, you slash them with your weapon, and this provokes another bite attack from your wolf. If you crit on any of these? You both attack. They try to get up? You both attack. They swing at you? You both attack. Your animal focus can be spent on tiger, gaining you more AOOs, or snake, making your AOOs even more obscenely accurate.

You always get to be the ultimate wing man out of combat. Need help studying that new spell? +5. Seducing the comely lass at the tavern? +5. Disarming a trap? +5. Interrogating the suspect? You want good cop or bad cop?

Critiques, advice, discussion?

CryntheCrow wrote:

C: I'm fine with that. So long as its paizo official, I welcome it in my games. Which is a policy I think most dms follow? Maybe?

I'd say most leave Campaign Traits to the specified campaign - they're generally well overpowered compared to regular ones, and it keeps them special. For homebrew campaigns they could be adapted of course.

I have a similar Halfling in PFS (played two days ago actually), with rogue/monk/barb/cleric and heading for Halfling Opportunist to bump the Aid Another bonus.

FYI - I've found Bodyguard doesn't happen as much as I'd hoped, since you have to both be adjacent to the ally, and threaten the foe at the same time.

Doesn't the opportunist only upgrade aid actions directed at themselves? Don't think they can make their allies any stronger, can they?

CryntheCrow wrote:

D: Again, discrepancy between file and what I wrote. Its actually Str 10, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 7. At level 12, I simply pump that cha +1 and leave wis at 20. Mechanically, its the same.

>_> How'd you get 7 charisma on a Halfling with point buy? They have a +2 Racial Bonus to it.

Even if that's a 7 before racial, that'd be a 17 pt buy (12/12/10/10/18/7 = 2+2+17-4). If you mixed it up, then yeah 20 pt buy would fit.

No, no, I'm saying I BOUGHT the 7, which gets upgraded to a 9, which then goes to a 10 at 12 when I'm not going to see benefit from raising wisdom to 21. Moot point anyways, trying something new.

I'm also rather curious as to how you reached the base saves you have listed, I came out to just +13/+8/+5, or +14/+9/+6 with the Halfling Luck racial bonus.

That HP total seems. . .off. 9d8+3d10, using PFS would be 66, plus maybe 7 for Hunter favored class for 73 total. Not sure where the last 5 points are from.

Be aware: "Fools for Friends" isn't a normal trait, it's a Campaign Trait from the Second Darkness AP.

And lastly. . .what point buy is that using? The array of 10/14/10/10/18/10 looks like a 22 point buy. . .which is really odd.

A: Simple sleep deprivation and me having written down a more optimized stat array in a word document, then not translating it properly to the chat box.

B: Not sure how PFS goes, but I did 8+5*8+6*3. Full hp, then a rounded up average per level. Stupidly gave myself an hp for every level, rather than just the ones I've got a favored class in, so theres the issue.

C: I'm fine with that. So long as its paizo official, I welcome it in my games. Which is a policy I think most dms follow? Maybe?

D: Again, discrepancy between file and what I wrote. Its actually Str 10, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 7. At level 12, I simply pump that cha +1 and leave wis at 20. Mechanically, its the same.

Found another minor error: You need lv5 Monk or BAB +5 to get Crane Wing; Since you only have 2 levels of Monk, you'd need BAB +5 which you don't get with this build until that third Hunter Level (Character Level 7)

So, swap Dirty Fighting (which has no prereqs) and Crane Wing, and that's fine. As for the Combat Reflexes? I'd say drop Lookout and at lv11 get Paired Opportunists as the Hunter Bonus and Combat Reflexes as the level 11 feat.

Ah, thats fair. Suppose I also have the option of making it an unchained monk, and maybe somehow squeezing in weapon finesse? At high levels, the massive flank bonuses and almost full bab may allow me to get away with - attribute investment. At low levels, he's more of an AC aura buff anyways. I've got some reconsideration to do.

pack flanking wrote:

Prerequisite(s): Int 13, Combat Expertise, ability to acquire an animal companion.

dirty fighting wrote:

Special:This feat counts as having Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, and Improved Unarmed Strike for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites of the various improved combat maneuver feats, as well as feats that require those improved combat maneuver feats as prerequisites.

Nope, Dirty Fighting's not a prereq cureall. Pack Flanking mentions nothing about combat maneuver feats. Sorry.

Took me a moment to realize what you were talking about. You're absolutely right, I've been using dirty fighting to complement trip builds so long I forgot the exact wording. Ah well... back to the drawing board. Still, think I'm on to something with a bit of tweaking.

Does your fighter have an archetype?

The Eldritch Guardian gets a familiar, that you can can give an archetype as well- the Protector archetype can help you.
Mauler archetype gets access to your feats as well.

the Drill Sergeant acts as a Cavalier almost- it doesn't get the Mount or the Order, but it still gets the Tactician ability.

If you were daring enough to NOT flood the tables Action Economy with Yourself, your Animal Companion, you Mount, and possibly a hostile Mauler familiar; you could go Beast Rider Cavalier archetype and ride your animal companion effectively.

Also, depending on the Order you choose as a Cavalier, it may be worthwhile to go more levels into Cavalier; the Order of the Dragon's 2nd cavalier level excels at aiding allies- you could boost their AC even more!

Yeah, this was intended more as a proof of concept than a fully optimized build. And I'm sure the annoyance of my table at waiting for me to finish my move would be dwarfed only by my own. On the order of the dragon, unfortunately, the wording isn't a flat bonus to aid another, it actually replaces the +2 with a +3. It won't beat the siple trait combination until level 20, and then only by +1.

Gearing?

Headband/Belt of Wisdom/Dexterity, as high as you can go. Throw on some cheap +armor items if you find them necessary. But you should have the highest AC in the party by a wide margin just through class features.

You may buy an amulet, but it'll be for your mount. Exotic saddle, if you chose the cat. Consider not buying armor proficiency, and just giving your cat some mithral chain. Or, if you're really willing to invest, a Mithral breastplate.

Ring of evasion, if you've saved up a ton, and anything else your heart desires. Build is mostly self-sufficient.

So, a bit late to the party, but recently there was a thread asking for the strongest conceivable build dipping a ton of classes. I hate multiclassing to any great degree, as keeping track of a thousand class features slows down play for me. But it seemed like a fun exercise. After spending a couple hours theorycrafting, this is the best I could come up with, and I have to say, I think its truly powerful. Without further ado, this is the strongest multiclass build I could come up with, condensed to the essentials, no items.

Halfling 12 Monk (Sensei), Hunter, Fighter, Cavalier

Stats: Str - 8 (-2 Racial), Dex 16 (+2 racial), Con 10, Int 10, Wis 21 (+3 levels), Cha 8 (-2 Racial Bonus)

HP - 78
AC - 20 (20 Touch, 11 Flat), 30 Fighting Defensively
Saves - 15/12/11

Traits: Helpful (Halfling), Fools for Friends

Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Dodge , Cautious Fighter; Advice
Monk 2: Combat Reflexes
Fighter3: Blundering Defense, Crane Style
Fighter 4: Bodyguard
Hunter 5: Crane Wing; Spell Level 1, Animal Companion, Animal Focus
Hunter 6: Outflank
Hunter 7: Dirty Fighting, Pack Flanking
Cavalier 8: Broken Wing Gambit
Hunter 9:Boon Companion; Spell Level 2
Hunter 10: N/A
Hunter 11: Paired Opportunists, Lookout
Hunter 12: N/A; Spell Level 3

So, quick rundown on how this works. Basically, level 1, you're just a little chained monk who can't even flurry. Low hp, low to-hit, low damage, the best thing you've got going for you is your advice ability to buff, your surprisingly high DC on your stunning fist with 18 Wis, and your incredible AC of 18, which jumps to 22 when you fight defensively.

The MAIN benefit however, comes from your traits. The halfling version of the helpful trait boosts your aid another to a whopping +4, and the Fools for Friends adds an additional +1, plus a little bonus against charms and compulsions. This gives us a total of +5 to our nearest big guy's AC or attack rolls. But for now, just try not to get killed.

Level 2, our Sensei Archetype gives us Insightful Strike, which basically lets us use our wisdom for attack rolls and combat maneuvers. Since we're not looking to output the damage, this lets us hit far easier with our stunning fists, and will be useful at later levels.

Level 3 is where we really start to come online. With three ranks in acrobatics, crane style, and cautious fighter, our fighting defensively gives us a whopping +6 to ac. Blundering defense lets us extend half of this benefit to our allies, giving anyone we stand next to a +3 to AC.

Level 4, we get bodyguard. This is huge. Now, spending our attacks of opportunity whenever an opponent attacks an adjacent ally, we can aid another. Which, you'll remember, comes at a massive +5. With bodyguard proccing on an adjacent ally, we're giving them +8 AC.

Level 5 is where we're officially little badasses, and fully online for the support side of this build. Crane Wing allows you a massive +4 dodge bonus to your AC when you fight defensively, so long as no one gets close to hitting you that turn (easier said than done with a +10 fighting defensively). Now, remember how Blundering gives your adjacent allies half that? Yeah, defending with bodyguard, you're now giving your barbarian friend a +10 to AC. You're also giving it to the mount you just acquired.

Now, there are two main choices for your animal companion. Pick wisely, as he's going to be the main source of your damage for the rest of this build.

Wolf will give you greater supression on enemies through tripping, and will have stronger attacks of opportunity through his stronger power attack, as he only has one natural attack, and its primary. This is a more supportive, more teamwork focused choice. I recommend the bodyguard archetype if you're planning to get to high levels.

A big cat, such as a lion or a tiger, will eventually gain pounce, and will simply have the best all-around stats to serve as a damage machine. With the massive boosts to AC you'll be giving it, and the ability to augment its attacks through animal focus, teamwork feats, and magic, this will be one terrifying kitty. I recommend no archetype for this one, as evasion and multiattack are more useful.

Either way, you can ride both the first level you get them, as you're small. Just mind their low hp, and your lack of the mounted combat to protect them. Don't bring them near if you're expecting fireballs. Level 6 is pretty much a dead level for us. We get outflank, but without a means to share it, its pretty much only useful if the barbarian or fighter took it, which given how much they love you, they might have!

Level 7, we get the important ability to share our teamwork feats with our animal companion. This is a MASSIVE power boost. Allow me to explain. Dirty Fighting lets us bypass the prerequisites for Pack Flanking, and gives us a huge boon itself. Now, at this point, you've got a high wisdom, and your wisdom counts as your offensive stat for all combat maneuvers. Dirty Fighting lets you whip out any combat maneuver you want, so long as you're flanking an enemy. Pack flanking lets you flank an enemy from any position so long as you're adjacent to an ally who shares the teamwork feat. Your mount is always adjacent, and shares this feat. Outflank raises the bonuses for flanking to +4. So, what does this all mean? YOU AND YOUR MOUNT RECEIVE A CONSTANT +4 ON ALL ATTACKS AND MANEUVERS, AND YOU CAN WHIP OUT ANY MANEUVER YOU WANT USING YOUR STRONGEST STAT, WITHOUT PROVOKING ANY ATTACKS OF OPPORTUNITY. You're now genuinely terrifying, and your mount has some much-needed offensive love.

Level 8, we get Broken Wing Gambit through the cavalier's tactician ability. Very simply, you only want your mount to be using this at this level, as you don't get as much benefit from provoking attacks. Your mount, however, can now lash out every time its attacked.

Level 9, your animal companion is now fully badass. Boon companion brings our effective druid level up to our character level, making our mount of choice large-sized, and bearing some rather massive boosts in stats, feats and overall power. Your mount is an absolute monster now. Consider Narrow Frame, to let him go into the dungeons you may be treading with more ease.

Level 10 is another dead level, but we're getting stronger, and should be well above the curve in terms of power.

Level 11 is truly obscene. Paired opportunists gives you and your animal companion ANOTHER +4 to attacks of opportunity. Combined with broken wing gambit, which I encourage both you and your companion to starts using at this point, BOTH you and your animal companion get to use an attack of opportunity when EITHER of you is attacked. And since you can use any type of maneuver you like, this can take the form of you knocking an enemy on their ass with the +8 trip while your wolf power attack bites them. Its a preventative measure for damage with even more offense, as no one will want to take a swing when they see what you can do. In addition, if you took the bodyguard archetype, lookout will now ensure that BOTH you and your animal can take full rounds in any surprise round. Theres no surprising either of you. If you took the cat, consider trading this out for toughness. More HP will always be appreciated.

Level 12, we simply get 3rd level spells. Which at least scale with our obscene wisdom, and will likely be mostly buffs. We are a walking +5 bonus to pretty much everything attempted, riding a tempest of fangs. Fear us.

TLDR:

Pros - Powerful by 5th level, great saves, amazing ac, versatile with the ability to get class skills in all knowledge, social and physical skills. Pretty much everything you'd want is on the list. Awesome team player who will be the favorite of your front liners. In addition, the focus on only two stats and innately massive ac lets you focus your wealth into decking out your animal companion, more than even a full hunter could.

Cons - Squishy, unless min-maxxed for extra con. Which is definitely an option, you don't need the strength or charisma. Level 9 before you truly start dealing a lot of damage by yourself.

So, been theory crafting a lot recently, and I recently came up with this build in response to a need to see a truly powerful, not just competent, Ascetic Style build. I thought about applying reach, and found that of the two weapons that were both monk weapons and reach, one of them was actually semi-coherent!

The Kusarigama is a sickle/chain weapon that, for all intents and purposes, we're going to ignore most of the traits of to avoid confusion. Two hand it, swing the chain or the sickle depending on the damage type you like, enjoy smashing skulls with naught more than a small iron ball and momentum. If they get close, don't start the debate with your GM on whether you can use the sickle. You're a monk. Kick them in the dick. Now, on to the build:

Wia Buu Turashu
LN Human Unchained Monk 12
Init +1, Senses: Perception +14

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Defense
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AC - 17, Touch 17, Flat 10
HP - 106
Fort +10, Reflex +10, Will +7 (+9 vs enchantment spells and effects)

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Offense
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Ki - 9
Speed - 70 ft.
Melee Flurry - Kusarigama +18/+18/+18/+13/+8 (2d6+7)
Unarmed Strike +17/+17/+17/+12/+8 (2d6+5)
Melee Flurry w/ki and successful Trip w/Leg Sweep - Kusarigama - +18/+18/+18/+18/+13/+8 (2d6+7)
Melee Flurry w/ki and successful Trip w/Leg Sweep vs vulnerable opponent - +18/+18/+18/+18/+18/+18/+13/+8 (2d6+7)

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Statistics
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Str 20(+2 Racial, +3 levels), Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8

Traits: Indomitable Faith, Honored Fist of the Society
1: Weapon Focus (Kusarigama
Human: Ascetic Style
Bonus: Improved Unarmed Strike
Bonus: Stunning Fist
Bonus: Combat Reflexes
Bonus2: Scorpion Style
3: Power Attack
Ki Power4: Empty Body
5: Ascetic Form
Style Strike5: Leg Sweep
6: Improved Trip
Ki Power6: Sudden Speed
7: Dirty Fighting
Ki Power8: Abundant Step
9: Greater Trip
Style Strike9: Knockback Kick
10: Medusa’s Wrath
Ki Power10: Ki Hurricane
11: Lunge
Ki Power12: Qinggong Power (Whirlwind Attack (2 Ki))

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In summary, this build has a number of perks. It is powerful at all levels and sees constant bumps in strength, starting with being able to flurry with a two handed reach weapon at level 1 with combat reflexes, getting power attack and a ki pool for stronger flurries at 3, getting style strikes at 5, plentiful maneuver options at 7, strong trip game at 9, obscene numbers of attacks against vulnerable enemies at 10, and the ability to damage everyone around you in a large area at 12.

Weapon enhancements cost literally half of what an amulet equivalent will cost, and this style only needs to go 2 feats in, as the final ascetic feat is redundant for monks. Knockback kick, lunge, and strong trip maneuvers give us a greater ability to play keep away with enemies. Its not quite as good at tripping as a purely focused fighter, but we make up for it with far better damage, mobility and the ability to fight with most of your effectiveness at close range. Of course, this build is shown without items other than a normal weapon. Apply gold generously in the areas you feel fit, and you've a template for a powerful reach fighter with a stylish weapon. I will suggest heavily investing in your weapon and strength, as the use of power attack takes a dent in the build's accuracy, but is a literal increase of +12 damage to the listed calculations of each of your numerous attacks. Its worth it, just make sure you invest for it.

P.S. Also, a tip when facing rogues or spellcasters: Dirty fighting is more than a tool to bypass combat expertise. Get your fellow party members to flank, and you can pull out any maneuver you want without provoking an attack of opportunity. An impromptu grapple against the enemy wizard is an instant 'no spells with somatic components' You're a high strength character with full bab. Don't be afraid to exploit that.

Most likely not. It is a balance issue.

There are medium armors with gloves. medium adamantine armor costs +10,000 the base price. A single adamantine weapon costs +3000.

So this would give you a free pair of adamantine weapons (a +6000 value) for free. That is most of the price of the armor.

If you need an logical explanation, then just assume that the armor is not entirely admantine, and just choice pieces are. The gauntlets would be made out of lesser materials.

Hrm. I understand the point, but to be fair, you'd be limited to a 1d3 weapon that can't be two-handed. I'm really asking for a RAW interpretation.

Gauntlet

Benefit: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. Your opponent cannot use a disarm action to disarm you of gauntlets.

Note: The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets.

Weapon Feature(s): cannot be disarmed

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So here is the question. Does a set of gauntlets, which explicitly are included as part of a suit of armor, use the material the armor is made of? In other words, if I invest in a suit of adamantine armor, and punch someone with my gauntlet, does my strike count as adamantine?

1. Doesn't seem that way. Its a strange companion in that it takes the shadow creature from the bestiary and simply replaces a few of their stats. You could potentially have a creature with over a hundred health, but only a few hit die. No other class feature operates like this, to my knowledge.

2. It can't wear magic items, as it is an incorporeal creature from the bestiary, and can't take feats that would open item slots.

3. Not entirely certain it's attack is a natural attack, but if it does, then that is how it works. "When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with one natural or manufactured weapon."

4. A shadow has an int of 6, making it far smarter than any animal companion and most familiars. RAW, I think the GM is supposed to control companions. But given that the shadow is implied to be a part of you, given that its alignment matches yours despite technically being undead, and its stats are derived from yours, I'd be fine with its nature basically always lining up with yours, and giving you control.

As for recommendations,pick the slayer class. Its got arguably the most damage built into its core of any class, great hit points, skills to spare, access to the ranger weapon training to bypass stat requirements, and a ton of cool abilities while being full BAB. Many of these things will benefit your shadow, and nothing stops you from being the sort of shadowdancer that has high strength and wields a two handed weapon. After all, you have a scout and flying attacker built into your class. Also, remember that you can send your shadow into the ground tile beneath an opponent and slowly claw away at their strength. Breaking line of sight and gaining full cover is often worth attacking through cover against an opponent who can really damage your shadow.

I think I've got it. The animal ally feat chain. Its not 'outside help,' as the animal is a class feature that can take the teamwork feat related to stealth and basically ensure good rolls as they creep up to the wizard. Even if its a diviner, if the animal attacks first, and the diviner uses a turn dealing with the animal, he probably won't have the perception to deal with a rouge heavily invested in stealth. That brings up a single turn opening that all the planars and auto-initiative wins in the world can't beat. Of course, all of this is a pointless discussion. Honestly, I've never seen a 'spellcasters are so much stronger' post that didn't assume the wizard had an infinite supply of wealth and preparation while knowing their opponent. Personally, in practice in the game, I think wizards feel kind of weak.

No, but in just seven days (and seven nights) it can make you a man.

Joking aside I like it for rule of cool flavor if still rather creepy (in the "stay away from Uncle Joe" kind of way) in the case of the originator.

Yeah, I just wanted an origin for fetchlings in a universe without other Planes. Thinking of making it into a whole 'thing.' Maybe since a simulacrum is bound to the will of its master, having her essence strewn throughout their race has given the illusionist complete command over the entire race, ruling a kingdom of them as a Lord of Shadows. I dunno, its just something I think would make a good place on the map in a setting.

Huh. I actually had NO idea that Simulacrum was an illusion spell. Always thought it was conjuration... Turns out its shadow magic. Which I suppose means I can't replicate it using shades, but I can just use simulacrum itself.

Odd title, I know. Basically, I'm trying to create an alternate origin for Fetchlings. The idea is that one day, a master illusionist used shadow magic to create a companion, a wife who could match his intellect, and finally alleviate his solitude after spending his best years locked away in study. Through the use of a shades spell, he crafted her, and she bore him a child. This child, suffused with shadow magic, was the first fetchling. Thinking he had birthed a monster, he lashed out, blaming her, and in a moment of rage and clarity, he disbelieved. And he was alone once more. But the child remained.

Now, mechanically, is there any spell that shades could replicate that would possibly make a normal human woman?

So, possibly a basic question I already know the answer to, but if I understand it, lets say I have a Slayer9/Shadowdancer3 with a BAB of +11. If my shadow attacks, he uses the "Incorporeal Touch" which is, despite its name, not a touch attack. He uses my BAB which means he can use it up to three times, and every hit deals 1d6 Strength Damage. Is this right? Feels like I have something wrong.

Also, his health is equal to half my hp 'total.' Is this my maximum hp, or my current hp at the time I summon it?

Here is how you kill a wizard as a rogue. First, you pump everything into stealth. Feats, class features, everything. You buy a ring of sustenance. Then you stalk that mother f@+$er. Every time he tries to sleep, you toss a small rock, or make a noise relatively nearby, and you wake him up. You make him paranoid. You'll be bored, constantly on edge, because this genius level intellect is slinging spell slots at the walls trying to find you, but you know what? Sucks to suck, nerd, INT doesn't contribute to Perception scores. Or anything useful, really. He'll have 10-14 Con based on how min-maxxed he is, but heres where the long game comes in. He'll be too smart to throw away all his spell slots hunting you down. He'll save some save or dies just for you. But eventually, that fatigue is going to become exhaustion. And that exhaustion is going to become unconciousness. If he's a sorcerer, he may have a bluff or disguise skill high enough to FAKE sleeping. You'll need max ranks in sense motive and perception. Then you coup de grace that f$&$er.

...Oh, you wanted an actual, feasible build for a 1v1? Easy. Pathfinder is a broken mess. Pick an evil alignment you want, and a race of evil outsiders from that alignment. Rush the Damnation feats. Pickup minor and major magic rogue talents, ghost sound and vanish. Soulless Gaze allows you to demoralize as a swift action, move action and standard. It also allows you to stack conditions until the enemy is cowering. Craft a magic item that boosts intimidate, or simply pick options that boost it. Pick up Dastardly finish at 11.

Vanish. Stealth in. Look at that mother f+@+er three times in one turn. He's cowering. He can't move. He can't cast. He's broken by the brimstone in your eyes. Dastardly finish with a scythe. Auto crit at x4 damage, possibly with two handed power attack. His Fort save is basically impossible, and even if he 20s, you can still keep him locked with soulless gaze.

NPC for now, though if it was feasible to do constantly, I wouldn't mind playing it. Of course, depriving line of sight on casters and penalties on my fellow party members makes him a niche pick at best.

Hey guys. So, I wanted to make a sort of twist on the blind swordsman, a combat pragmatist who has learned to fight without his sight (blind fight, and all the blinded blade style feats), but deprives his enemies of sight to put them at a huge disadvantage. I'd prefer to keep him human, and I'd prefer an item that would obscure darkvision as well. Consistency is key, so if its a consumable, it needs to be pretty cheap. Assume level 12, with mostly levels in fighter to accomodate all the feats.

Automatic Bonus Progression. Its not perfect. Arguably not even powerful. But you're approaching the levels where a lack of magic items is unfeasible. Or, your DM can have some elves appear and just hand out basic magic geat.

I mean... maybe at very high levels, Focused weapon would be worthwhile. But the nature of the ability means you won't even see gains until 10th level. You won't see gains better than weapon specialization until literally 20th level. Even then, I'd probably trade it off for save or initiative as an archer. Focused weapon is actually stupid weak.

Might I suggest a change of course if you are looking for damage while also having buckets of hit points and being a necessary target for the enemy?

Polearm master (shorten grip), trip weapon, high dex, combat reflexes, greater trip. Felling smash for when you can't full attack, fury's fall to take advantage of your high dex. Very Oberyn Martell.

You will eventually do more damage, your party will do more damage, you can stay at distance, and you can harass ranged and casters in groups much more effectively.

Absolutely no help with your original question, but it is a character I played into retirement, and while frustrating for the GM, nobody in the party ever argued with a massive hit point pool that blocked 20 squares instead of 9 that could make everything prone (well, maybe a ranger once, but he didn't count).

Casters at LEAST have to immobilize you because you can ruin their day with your AOO's if they let you get close. I found him targeted more than any other fighter I have sat at a table with.

For what it's worth, I did have four levels of alchemist for the mutagen, enlarge person, heroism, and alchemical allocution for things like bark skin and fly, but that was just so I could be more self sufficient, one could totally skip that and rely on party buffs to make an even beefier fighter. My fighter was for PFS and thus couldn't rely on an optimum party mix.

Oh, certainly, the reach weapon fighter is among the strongest builds. I'm just theorycrafting, trying to make vital strike usable.

CryntheCrow wrote:

And there is a massive advantage to being able to be very mobile with your damage, not the least of which negating full attacks. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't some trait or ability I was missing

You make presumptions here that probably aren't accurate.

You consider it a massive advantage to be able to negate a full attack, which is a nice advantage but....
Casters and archers wont care about your mobility. They will be just as deadly to you, and are generally more of a threat than any melee character. You can only negate the option of melee full attack. Even then, there are options for melee characters to get pounce or pounce like abilities that will completely ruin your day.

Not only that, if you really want to negate a full attack you need Spring Attack (which can't be combined with Vital Strike). Otherwise when you Vital Strike and move away the enemy knows your game. You want to try and trade single blow for single blow. He can ignore you and attack your friend instead of chasing you down and playing to your strategy that you are better at. If you end your turn next to him you take a face full of full attack.

If thats a huge worry to you, keep in mind cut from the air and combat reflexes exists. Or, just trust that your combat expertise, heavy armor and possibly defensive weapon training will make you too hard to hit consistently from all but the best archers (an enemy I find is more likely to come in mob droves than BBEG). A +2 impact weapon, combat expertise, gloves of dueling and defensive weapon training grants an additional +7 AC over a traditional fighter at level 12. Thats an additional 35% miss chance on enemies who would already be hard-pressed to hit me. I'm not sure I buy into 'they'll just focus other party members' as a reason the build is weak. Thats true of any non-crowd-control focused fighter. I doubt thats a complaint you'd give a cavalier or swashbuckler.

Yeah, until the latest levels, warpriest scaling won't catch up with a greatsword for some time. Plus, I think it simply overrides what a weapon's true base damage would be, so I think it would be unaffected by size modifiers. That said, and lot of the new feats have made the vital strike path more healthy I think. And there is a massive advantage to being able to be very mobile with your damage, not the least of which negating full attacks. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't some trait or ability I was missing

Assuming a human, I think we could get a VIABLE build from:

Str 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 12
Cha 10

Fighter
Hb: Power Attack
1: Furious Focus
1b: Weapon Focus (Greatsword) --> Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword) lvl. 4
2: Combat Expertise
3: Swordplay Style
4: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword)
5: Advanced Weapon Training (Anything you want, AC, Initiative, CMD, Saves)
6: Vital Strike

This offers us a build with scaling damage and armor class, while our levels up to 11 can be spent on anything we want. Maneuvers that can be used with a move action? Buffing up our defenses? The Damnation line? I actually think Vital Strike has a similar benefit to two-handed weapons in that it only takes a few feats to get online. Admittedly, its a bit more feat investment for a bit less damage, but in addition to being more mobile, its stat investment is MUCH lower, saving you money for other items you want. You don't really NEED that belt of anything, and your character is surprisingly well-rounded with a GREAT AC.