Researching other class spells

[OmniMage]

I'm looking for information on researching spells that belong to other spell casters. For instance, a Wizard trying to learn healing and resurrection spells from a Cleric's list, or ironwood and rusting grasp from a Druid's list.

I don't think learning spells from other classes is what the devs had in mind when writing the spell research rules. Nonetheless, I would like any information, guidelines, and opinions you guys can provide.

Thanks in advance.

[Eltacolibre]

Ultimate magic have some suggestions and ideas for creating new spells.

Now if you want something outside of the rules already written in the books, it basically all comes down to this:

How well can you convince your GM to allow it? is pretty much it.

[slachance6]

Ditto to what Eltacolibre said. But If I were your GM, I'd say it's about as hard as designing a new spell.

[slachance6]

Ditto to what Eltacolibre said. But if I were your GM, I'd say it's about as hard as designing a new spell.

[ForestDew]

I'd also raise the level of the spell.

[Nixitur]

I would say learning spells of other classes should be just as hard as researching a new spell. And if I were your GM, I would definitely not allow you to learn healing or resurrection spells as a wizard. Each class has a certain flavor and a variety of roles it can fit. Wizard is already extremely versatile; allowing it to also fit, say, the healer role seriously devalues a lot of clerics and oracles. Warp Wood or Rusting Grasp would probably be fine, though.

[Zhayne]

Nixitur wrote:

. Wizard is already extremely versatile; allowing it to also fit, say, the healer role seriously devalues a lot of clerics and oracles.

Not necessarily a bad thing. I know people who would like to play the healer-type without the baggage that comes with being a divine-powered character. And if Bards can do arcane healing, why not wizards?

[ForestDew]

Zhayne wrote:

Nixitur wrote:

. Wizard is already extremely versatile; allowing it to also fit, say, the healer role seriously devalues a lot of clerics and oracles.

Not necessarily a bad thing. I know people who would like to play the healer-type without the baggage that comes with being a divine-powered character. And if Bards can do arcane healing, why not wizards?

The witch took that role. She even get access to two archetypes focuded on healing(one that gives her the ability to cast cure spells like a cleric and another to channel energy), not to mention she get hexes that acts as cure and they are very powerful.

[Jhaeman]

My understanding is that, RAW, there's no limitation or added penalty on characters of one class researching spells of another class. The normal spell research rules apply.

The existence of multi-classing, 30+ classes, dozens of prestige classes, etc., has tended to blur the line between the classic division of "clerics" vs. "wizards." (I'm not saying this is a good thing, but just the reality in Pathfinder as it now stands).

[Mysterious Stranger]

As a GM this is not something I would allow. This would allow wizards or any caster access to any spell in the book. 9th level casters especially wizards are already versatile enough. To me this was not what spell research is about. Spell research should be to allow a character to create a new spell, or to learn a spell they have not been able to find not poach from another class.

Wizard already has ways to heal without having to use other casters spells. Spells like infernal healing already exist. They can also summon up creatures that have access to healing to heal indirectly. And finally they have access to wish and limited wish which can duplicate any spell in the game. They may not be as good at healing as a divine caster but they are not supposed to be.

[OmniMage]

The bit on spell design in Ultimate Magic was informative. Unfortunately it didn't cover learning other class's spells.

Maximum versatility is what I'm aiming for. I want to be able to cast all spells. Though, I'm not surprised that some object to that idea.

I don't suppose there is a better class to try this with? Wizards seemed good because they can learn a lot of spells and has few restrictions.

[Eltacolibre]

The thing is...it doesn't quite matter what we say. If your GM approve it, it doesn't matter. It's not really us you have to convince.

We are just saying it's not a good idea and the people who tends to do this in the default setting of Golarion are usually part of special organizations like the Magaayambya (Wizard + Druid spells) or are so ridiculously powerful that it makes sense for them Baba Yaga (but she literally made deals with Gods, Demon Lords, etc...) or are getting from divine sources: Various domains, oracle lore mystery allowing to add arcane spells to their list etc...or weird origin Mystic Past Life (Samsaran).

[Mysterious Stranger]

If you want ultimate versatility you are probably going to have to pay for it with power. You could go for a mystic theurge and get access to both arcane and divine magic. You will have to sacrifice gaining access to higher level spells though.

They only other thing that would work is to find a GM who is willing to allow what you want. This is so far into the realm of house rules that the game you are playing is hardly even Pathfinder anymore.

You may want to give Ars Magica a look. The basic premise behind it is that wizards are the most powerful character and can do pretty much anything. That sounds more like what you are wanting.

[Dastis]

Yeah researching spells from other lists is pretty busted. I do have some options for you to check out though

Spell Sage Wizard Archetype
Mystic Past Life Samsaran alternative racial trait
Pathfinder Savant PRC

[Ectar]

My perspective:
Limited wish (7th level wiz spell) lets you copy Breath of Life (5th level spell) , which is a spell that for the most part keeps in theme with the cure spell progression. There's also a 1.5k gold cost to doing so.
Dropping the material component requirement would wield:
Working backwards from there, cure critical wounds (4th level) would be a 6th level wizard spell. Cure serious wounds would be a 5th level wizard spell. Cure moderate wounds would be a 4th level wizard spell. Cure light wounds would be a 3rd level wizard spell.

The highest level cure spell bards get is mass cure moderate as a 6th level spell at 16th level. Using the above trend, mass cure moderate would be an 8th level wizard spell, which a wizard could learn at 15th level. The back-end seems reasonable, but not getting cure light until 5th level would be bad if the party doesn't have early access to wands.

[OmniMage]

After doing some looking, it seems that the Spell Sage archetype for Wizards is my best bet. In some ways, its better than what I was asking for. For a few times a day, it allows me to become a spontaneous spell caster with my list of spells known being every spell on the Cleric's, Druid's, and Bard's lists.

The Archmage mythic path has an underwhelming option for other class's spells. I could learn 3 divine spells (Cleric or Druid) for every time I selected it, with the spell level cap starting at 1, increasing by one every time I select it. It had a select limit of 3, so I would be capped to level 3 spells. Another drawback is that it is mythic adventures stuff, so I might not get it.

I'm not sure where to find the other options mentioned in this thread, such as Pathfinder Savant PRC or Infernal Healing.

[Dr Styx]

Well here is Infernal Healing.

[pad300]

Baba Yaga's write up in The Witch Queen's Revenge (AP72)

http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MythicMonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Baba%20Y aga

strongly suggests it is possible to research another classes spells -

"Queen of Witches (Ex) As Queen of Witches, Baba Yaga knows all witch spells, as well as all sorcerer/wizard spells. Baba Yaga also has knowledge of many other spells that she has researched. Many of these are arcane versions of divine spells."

Admittedly, Baba Yaga is unique, but she's been researching spells from outside the witch spell list... As a PC, you might find this more challenging than she does though.

Another thought is a psychic with the rebirth discipline has access to this:

Mnemonic Esoterica (Ex): By reaching into the recesses of your past lives, you gain knowledge beyond that of most psychics. Select a single additional spellcasting class. Once per day when you prepare your spells, you can add one spell from this class’s spell list to your spells known and class spell list for 24 hours. This spell must be 1 level lower than the highest-level spell you can cast, and you cast it as if it were psychic magic (Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures 144). You can decide to change the spellcasting class from which you draw this spell each time you gain a new level.

Which allows you to pull any spell from any class list...