A campaign I'm in has these rules at the moment.
15 Race Points (can make your own race or tweak existing ones)
All Paizo materials allowed (except for variant multiclassing)
Characters just joining start at lvl6 with normal gold. Current party members will have spent more due to looting, but that is what it is.
If you were joining, how would you use race builder with class combinations to break the game?
Well, I don't. But it's a fun thought exercise.
I like the human skill monkey one. I could see that being made into a half-elf, just for the 'dual minded' racial ability letting him get +2 will. Also opens up half-elf feats, human feats and elven feats.
And Saldiven...
I like that one as well. If I could try to improve it...
Outsider (Aasimar, gives darkvision) 3RP
Flexible stats (+2 to any two) 2 points
Medium
Normal Speed
Standard Language
At-Will Spell Like Ability (Celestial Healing) 2RP
Flight 40' avg 6 RP
Fast (+10ft base speed)
1RP left to spend...resistance 5 to an element?
The fast healing is awesome indeed. Though casting Celestial or Infernal healing gives that you and your party, so you will always be at full health.
I think that fast increases base speed, so it should increase the fly speed to 50', right?
And finally I just can't see living without darkvision. Though Lady-J does put in 'see in darkness.' I've been in a situation where that would have been extremely useful before...
humanoid human(0rp)
base speed 30(0rp)
human heritage +2 to any ability score(0rp)
bonus feat(4rp)
focused study gain skill focus at 1,8,16(4rp)
quick reactions gains improved initiative(2rp)
see in darkness (4rp)14 rp total with room for 1 more race point
would have been bonus feat x3 but cant take that multiple times :(
If you are building your own creature for a one off why not go with static bonus feat that you want and save 2 RP?
Step 1: Be a Summoner.
Step 2: Refer to Step 1.
Why would you want to break the game? Why not take this big gift and make something fun out of it?
Came here to say this exact thing.
Here's a wonderful opportunity to do a bit of worldbuilding and literally make the "perfect" race for the class you want to play, and the kneejerk reaction is to take advantage.
Unless that's the GM's intent (some GM's out there do play that way), why not just go with whatever the intent is.
What would *I* do with it? I'd make a neat, flavorful race, probably a regional variation on one of the existing races.
my advice is don't try to make a game breaking race (gm is too easly optimized to ruin that) but build something that can survive a lot more.
15 point race? id go with a variant of the suli (call it noble suli)
-native outsider (3 points get darkvision 60 ft in it). pick all elemental planes (fire,acid,cold,elec)
-elemental imunity fire,acid,cold,elec (cost 4+1 per additinal one = 7)
-can also take negative energy afinity (-1) and then
-Resist Level Drain (1 RP) to ignore up to ur level of negetive levles.
instead of fast healing 1 (for 6 rp) just pick
-Spell-Like Ability, At-Will (infernal healing) 2 rp. you can also pick other spells that might help (playing a monk? mage armor at will is golden).
so far 12 point used. can pick other cool stuff or more spells at will.
have fun with that.
Well, I don't. But it's a fun thought exercise.
Once again I don't want to break the campaign. It was a question of how could you do it with such rules. My character is already set and has been for a few sessions now...
my advice is don't try to make a game breaking race (gm is too easly optimized to ruin that) but build something that can survive a lot more.
15 point race? id go with a variant of the suli (call it noble suli)-native outsider (3 points get darkvision 60 ft in it). pick all elemental planes (fire,acid,cold,elec)
-elemental imunity fire,acid,cold,elec (cost 4+1 per additinal one = 7)
-can also take negative energy afinity (-1) and then
-Resist Level Drain (1 RP) to ignore up to ur level of negetive levles.
instead of fast healing 1 (for 6 rp) just pick
-Spell-Like Ability, At-Will (infernal healing) 2 rp. you can also pick other spells that might help (playing a monk? mage armor at will is golden).
so far 12 point used. can pick other cool stuff or more spells at will.
have fun with that.
I'm pretty sure the immunity cost is:
First one: 4RP
Second: 5RP
Third: 6RP
Fourth: 7RP
But with Suli....
Outsider (Darkvision) (3RP)
DR5 Fire, Cold, Electricity, Acid (4RP)
* Then take the trait unscathed for DR 7.
Greater Spell Resistance (SR 11+level) (3RP)
Greater Defensive Training (+2 dodge AC) (4RP)
Fast (+10ft movement) (1RP)
DR7 all 4 elements
SR11+level
+2 dodge AC
40ft movement
Or....
Outsider Native (3RP)
Immunity Acid (4RP)
Elemental Assault (+1d6 acid damage all attacks) (6RP)
At Will spell like ability (mighty fist of the earth) (2RP)
Can make ranged attacks with unarmed strikes. Be a brawler for nice unarmed strikes. Wear delisquent gloves (+1d6 acid damage) and a corrosive amulet of might blows (+1d6 acid damage)
Unarmed +3d6 damage. Can make this a ranged attack at will.
you can't have a spell like ability that is an attack or damaging type so no "mighty fist of the earth"
but yea. i missed that +1 to the earlier cost (so 4+5+6+7 for all 4) bit.
but yes. unscathed is a great upgrade. so try this
take the native outsider (+3) (go with tiefling kind of planes but add earth plane as well) and grab their Fiendish Resistance (+3). (5 fire\cold\elect) and add acid energy resistance (+1) for a 5 to all.
then get unscathed and then try and get your hand on darksire amulet (the reason i went for a tiefling and not a suli) for a 12 resistance in all 4 elements. drape in infernal healing at will (+2) maybe true strike or something else to boot and ur ready to rock.
Why would you want to break the game? Why not take this big gift and make something fun out of it?Came here to say this exact thing.
Seconded.
Isn't the disparity between races already sort of broken? Correct me if I'm wrong, but by my math, humans are only 8 RP and svirfneblin are something like 24 RP. That's a huuuuuge difference, though admittedly, not all of the latter's features will be useful in every campaign. Customization allows a little more flexibility designing to a campaign, I suppose.
I'm actually considering doing a combined pool, maybe 35 RP + ability, for my next AP (either Hell's Rebels or Ironfang Invasion).
I'm actually considering doing a combined pool, maybe 35 RP + ability, for my next AP (either Hell's Rebels or Ironfang Invasion).
That's a great sandbox, but easier to exploit than the usual rules - and might lead to choice paralysis. Depends on the players, as so often.
I should make that clearer, 35 points, RP + ability combined. Commas mean everything in language some time.
Inarus the Wanderer: what point-buy are you using for ability scores?
Step 1: Be a Summoner.
Step 2: Refer to Step 1.
You are over simplifying this.
Step 1: Be a SYNTHESIST summoner.
Step 2: dump as much strength and dex as you can to get more race points.
Step 3: Boost con/cha, wis, and int (in that priority) as much as possible
Step 4: ???? other stuff
Step 5: Profit.
you can't get immunity without being at monster lvl, which is 20+, 15 is advanced, you could take all the resists though
20pt buy
Gotcha. I don't think that would be much different than picking an existing race with 25-point buy, which is what we normally do. After the first few levels, the difference is lost in the noise. In APs, wealth dominates in the long run (it tends to be high), too.
Slight correction - the Standard / Advanced / Monstrous level are actually RP point ranges (1-10 / 11-20 / 20+, respectively), not attribute point buy levels. Dharkus is correct. By RAW you need to have at least 20 RP on the table to take any trait in a Monstrous category - such as at will SLAs.
I should never have looked at the race builder. Now I know how unbalanced it can be w.r.t. standard races (and how powerful others are). Humans got the screws according to the way the RP lay out.
Of course, if you're building your own half-elf, and you can pick any static feat for 2 RP instead of skill focus, it is no different than picking the human's flexible feat for 4 RP, whereas the actual half-elf is stuck with skill focus (well, he can trade it, but not for another feat).
Anyway, since that's not the point of this thread, I worked out that a 15 RP + 20 PB can be powerful relative to standard races + 25 PB, which is what we normally play, but not so much different that I'd call it broken. If I were to keep things "close" for my games, 12 RP + 20 PB comes out a bit ahead, allowing the custom human to pick up an additional ability with about the same stat array as 25 PB and a few extra ability points for a half-elf. I'd limit my players to NO advanced abilities, and I'd fix a few obvious boo-boos (dragon sight is 120' darkvision for 2 RP, but 120' darkvision is 3 RP, for example).
Of course, if you're building your own half-elf, and you can pick any static feat for 2 RP instead of skill focus, it is no different than picking the human's flexible feat for 4 RP, whereas the actual half-elf is stuck with skill focus (well, he can trade it, but not for another feat).
One of those trades- dual minded, seems like it just as valuable as the flexible feat- I often like using half elves for martial builds since they can get great will saves. A +2 that stacks with just about everything (including iron will and the +2 against mind stuff from elven immunities) makes things fairly easy.
Nope, dragon sight, from Legacy of Dragons.
Edit: it requires half-orc, and seems to be a replacement for regular darkvision and intimidating, which probably explains the lower cost.
Of course, if you're building your own half-elf, and you can pick any static feat for 2 RP instead of skill focus, it is no different than picking the human's flexible feat for 4 RP, whereas the actual half-elf is stuck with skill focus (well, he can trade it, but not for another feat).One of those trades- dual minded, seems like it just as valuable as the flexible feat- I often like using half elves for martial builds since they can get great will saves. A +2 that stacks with just about everything (including iron will and the +2 against mind stuff from elven immunities) makes things fairly easy.
Yup, that's a "free" iron will if you aren't concerned with losing skill focus. Definitely some of the trades are good.
I like ancestral arms, too, since I can take aldori dueling sword for my dex-damage investigator. My next run may consider dual-minded, however, since my character is really support/skills focused (I'm the GM).