Okay, I'm pretty sure I got this right, but when I explain to my GM how I'm using spells off my staff I want to be definite.
So a Staff is a spell trigger item, meaning I can UMD it (DC 20) to pretend the spell is on my list to cast it. Right?
Use a Wand, Staff, or Other Spell Trigger Item: Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand's spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. Failing the roll does not expend a charge.
And this particular character is a Psychic of Rebirth level 7. Assuming I UMD to pretend the spell is on my list, I should be able to use my caster level, INT and feats (in terms of DCs) for the spells cast. Correct?
Using Staves: Staves use the wielder’s ability score and relevant feats to set the DC for saves against their spells. Unlike with other sorts of magic items, the wielder can use his caster level when activating the power of the staff if it’s higher than the caster level of the staff. This means that staves are far more potent in the hands of a powerful spellcaster. Because they use the wielder’s ability score to set the save DC for the spells, spells from a staff are often harder to resist than those from other magic items, which use the minimum ability score required to cast the spell. Not only are aspects of the spell dependent on caster level (range, duration, and so on) potentially higher, but spells from a staff are also harder to dispel and have a better chance of overcoming spell resistance.
All this is legal/acceptable, yes?
This sentence makes me unsure which interpratation is correct "This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list."
If the spell were on your list you would get to apply your modifiers, so why not?
Which other interpretation are you getting? I cannot see another one at the moment and am genuinely curious.
It looks like the post I was responding to was deleted, based on that line I'm not seeing how else to read it.
Ah. Good then.
Thanks for the response!
You are correct. Your lvl 7 psychic wielding a staff would either use the staff no problem if it's spell is on your list, make a DC25 check to blindly use a staff they find, or make a DC20 check to use a staff they are familiar with. When you succeed, you will use your Caster Level and Ability Modifier as though you had cast the spell yourself.
Normally, if a spell from a wand, staff, scroll, etc. is a spell from your spell list then you can activate the item without a check. If its not on your list, then you have to make a Difficulty Check. If you're activating blindly, then the DC is 25, assuming you know the item or have had a chance to study it then the DC is 20.
Wands use the minimum caster level and stat required to cast the spell, so a wand of magic missiles would have a range of 110ft (100 + 10ft/lvl) and do 1d4+1 damage.
Your staff however, would have a range of 170ft (100 + 10ft x lvl 7) and do 4d4+4 damage because it scales with your level.
Additionally, any effects such as damage and saves will scale with your modifier (Int in your case), so spells with a save would be the usual DC (10 + spell level + mod) instead of minimum (10 + spell level + minimum mod).
Wands use the minimum caster level and stat required to cast the spell, so a wand of magic missiles would have a range of 110ft (100 + 10ft/lvl) and do 1d4+1 damage.
Your staff however, would have a range of 170ft (100 + 10ft x lvl 7) and do 4d4+4 damage because it scales with your level.
Additionally, any effects such as damage and saves will scale with your modifier (Int in your case), so spells with a save would be the usual DC (10 + spell level + mod) instead of minimum (10 + spell level + minimum mod).
Wands can be built with a higher than minimum caster level, so won't always be the minimum.
And staves have a minimum caster level of 8th, so a magic missile from one would have a range of at least 180 feet.
Check out the Quarterstaff of Entwined Serpents.
If you mean the magic item category staff, then no. They all need recharging to regain charges.
/cevah
i'm thinking more along the lines of a staff that's basically a eternal wand for 3 spells but the smaller spell has more uses per dayCheck out the Quarterstaff of Entwined Serpents.
If you mean the magic item category staff, then no. They all need recharging to regain charges.
/cevah
Nope, staves like that don't exist, as far as I know. You're thinking of Rods. There's some rods that have only a limited number of uses before crumbling to dust, but most can be used X times per day/week.
I'm pretty sure eternal wands concept breaks the item creation "guidelines" because not all spells are equal.eternal wands were wands that had 2 changes each but they fully recharged every day they were also like 2-3 times the price of a normal wand of the same spell
I don't know what you're expecting us to say. The answer is quite simply "No". This is the Rules forum, not the House Rules one.
There is, however, the possibility to create entirely new magic items which could cover exactly what you want your "eternal wands" to do. You'd be looking for Command Word, Charges per day.However, as the text says and the examples quite clearly show, all of this is very much just dependant on your GM and you can't rely on those prices or crafting requirements. The table is merely an estimation and your GM may decide that no, the calculated price is way too low and it also wouldn't fall under Craft Wand, but, say, Craft Rod since Rods are the standard "X times per day" magic item.
There are staves with 'eternal' spells - Pathfinder made them all artifacts (see Staff of the Archmagi or Staff of Power for examples).
Rods will do what you want - there are still a couple that are like the old style 'do this 3/day'. Or just make a charges/day item - check with your GM first.
examples:
Staff that is eternal. Magi Staff of the Necromancer
Rod that is eternal. Liberators rod
There are others - what kind of effect are you looking for?
3/day fireball, 5/day shield and maybe 3/day acid arrowThere are staves with 'eternal' spells - Pathfinder made them all artifacts (see Staff of the Archmagi or Staff of Power for examples).
Rods will do what you want - there are still a couple that are like the old style 'do this 3/day'. Or just make a charges/day item - check with your GM first.
examples:
Staff that is eternal. Magi Staff of the Necromancer
Rod that is eternal. Liberators rod
There are others - what kind of effect are you looking for?
Cloak of the Hedge Wizard has a 1/day shield (and some other spells) - 2500 gp
Force bracers let you create a shield 10/day but does act like a real shield and takes proficiency etc.
6900 gp
There is no item that has shield 5/day - you could ask your GM to allow you to make one - using the above items as guidelines - I'd say you have a valid case that such an item should be priced between 2k and 6k gold.
Fireball is a much tougher one - the necklace of infernos regenerates over a week and has 3 fireballs - but that's like 3/week not 3/day - there really is no item that offers something quite like this but based on staves and necklace of fireball prices I'd say you were looking at a good 20k item at least.
Acid arrow 3/day
There is no item that does this - *however* we can look at another 2nd level spell - scorching ray - and we find the fivefold rings of fire and the flame of bakrakhan - both around 10k in value - so I'd say you have a good case to make an item that does this for roughly a similar price.
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I'm pretty sure eternal wands concept breaks the item creation "guidelines" because not all spells are equal.eternal wands were wands that had 2 changes each but they fully recharged every day they were also like 2-3 times the price of a normal wand of the same spell
I played eberron. I thought they were broken then. I think they are too good, and if others agree with me that might explain why they don't exist in pathfinder?
I played eberron. I thought they were broken then. I think they are too good, and if others agree with me that might explain why they don't exist in pathfinder?I'm pretty sure eternal wands concept breaks the item creation "guidelines" because not all spells are equal.eternal wands were wands that had 2 changes each but they fully recharged every day they were also like 2-3 times the price of a normal wand of the same spell
James,
Usually you stick by the rules - this seems overly hostile to the concept though. The ability to create a 'charges/day' item is entirely within the rules. Yes they aren't stock items, no they don't break any 'rules' in the CRB - the fact is any non-stock item would require GM approval should be good enough to settle the 'don't want at my table' type of issue.
Eberron content wasn't used because it wasn't OGL and was copyrighted - I would hesitate to make sweeping statements about why anything connected to that setting isn't part of Pathfinder.
Then how do you explain the lack of Beholders!
Then how do you explain the lack of Beholders!
They beheld everything that needed to be.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Usually you stick by the rules - this seems overly hostile to the concept though. The ability to create a 'charges/day' item is entirely within the rules.
There are no rules, just a guide. One that starts with don’t make something new without comparing to all existing, and if it has no similar start with this chart and massage for balance up and down in price.
If you follow those rules an eternal wand is different I’m price for each spell. I’m fine with that. A formula like what Eberron had is broken. I’m less fine (in games I’m in) with that.