I've finally managed to get a group of 6 together to play Pathfinder, 5 players and one GM. All but myself and one other player are extremely new, less then 3 games under their belt each, some as few as 0. Even the GM - who isn't me, I tried and failed - has only played once and never GM'd before.
But the veterans, including you at Paizo, say we shouldn't let that stop us.
The question is, how do we get started? It seems like the simplest way would be to pick up one of the Paizo Adventure Paths (though if you can think of another idea that wouldn't be too hard on our rookie GM, let me know) but then the question is, which one should I go with? These things cost money, and even if they didn't, I'd rather make an intelligent decision then just pick at random. My gut is not to be trusted; I've seen evidence of this time and time again.
For reasons I don't care to explain, we can't play Runelords or Jade Regent. But any of the other ones will work. (yes, I have heard Runelords is great for newbies. We still can't, so it's moot.)
If you have any advice for 5 greenhorns and their ambitious, yet foolish leader - that's me - I'd love to hear it. I'm flying by the seat of my pants and I have no idea what the hell is going on. I crave guidance.
I've finally managed to get a group of 6 together to play Pathfinder, 5 players and one GM. All but myself and one other player are extremely new, less then 3 games under their belt each, some as few as 0. Even the GM - who isn't me, I tried and failed - has only played once and never GM'd before.
But the veterans, including you at Paizo, say we shouldn't let that stop us.
The question is, how do we get started? It seems like the simplest way would be to pick up one of the Paizo Adventure Paths (though if you can think of another idea that wouldn't be too hard on our rookie GM, let me know) but then the question is, which one should I go with? These things cost money, and even if they didn't, I'd rather make an intelligent decision then just pick at random. My gut is not to be trusted; I've seen evidence of this time and time again.
For reasons I don't care to explain, we can't play Runelords or Jade Regent. But any of the other ones will work. (yes, I have heard Runelords is great for newbies. We still can't, so it's moot.)
If you have any advice for 5 greenhorns and their ambitious, yet foolish leader - that's me - I'd love to hear it. I'm flying by the seat of my pants and I have no idea what the hell is going on. I crave guidance.
Runelords is one of the Best APs but is extremely brutal in combats...I feel Newbs get decimated a lot in this AP.
As for good ones to start with. Skulls and Shackles is a nice one if a group likes Pirate themes. Not too difficult and lots of fun RP wise.
If Pirates are not your thing then I would suggest Kingmaker or Mummies Mask. Kingmaker brings in more Rules for the DM and Players to use called Kingdom Building. But is not overly difficult and has a good story and lots of things for players to do. Mummies Mask starts off with a heavy tomb diving theme and is a great way to break in new players to dungeon diving.
Actually, I'd start with something light-hearted, like the free and popular We Be Goblins!:
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8j5w?Pathfinder-Module-We-Be-Goblins
So players can have fun, get more familar with the rules and figure out more precisely what they actually want to play. From my experience, newbies are prone to pick character concepts they don't really enjoy - so it's better they do that just for a small module instead of a whole AP.
After this one there are three more (also free) similar modules, if you want. When you move on to an AP, Curse of the Crimson Throne is a well-received one, focused on a single city though (might be a plus or drawback).
The trouble with a smaller path or a oneshot is that I'm the only one who knows the rules well enough to set up a character, so I have to hold everyone's hand the whole way. It's exhausting. I'd really rather we keep the same characters for a while, if possible. x.x
I'm not especially worried about the possibility of some of the players abandoning the game. It's effortless to find interested players, in my circles.
@Louise Bishop: can I ask why those paths in particular? They all look a bit complicated... each of them, as best I could understand from the preview PDF, looks to have some additional rules and things which could be cumbersome. I'm not worried about having a tough time understanding them, but I'm very worried about things being too complex to explain to everyone else. I'm worried that interest would wane, and everyone would be driven away from the game.
(this is distinct from worrying about one or two players leaving. Pathfinder isn't right for everyone, and that's fine, but I don't want to scare anyone away by making the game more complicated then it already is.)
What kind of stories do you and your players enjoy?
A lot of combat? Roleplaying? Action? Intrigue? Exploration?
There are a lot of APs that don't need a lot of work to make awesome campaigns, so thinking of what kind of story you favor would help us to help you choose.
By the way, Skull and Shackles can be GMed without using naval combat rules or even simplifying them. Actually, ship combat is not too fun to play.
Fleet battles are easier to play, they come later in the game and I recommend not skipping them. But ship combat is totally avoidable.
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If you don't want to do rise of runelords or jade regent...and don't want additional rules.
Shattered Star AP is basically what you need. It's one of the most straightforward AP out there, some people dislike it because it is so vanilla but quite honestly it's pretty decent if that is the kind of gameplay you are going for.
That's the trouble, isn't it? All of us are so green, we don't even know what sorts of things we would prefer. We just want to play. I haven't asked them yet, but I already know that's what they would say if I asked them.
They've never played tabletop before, so I'm just trying to get them drawn into the experience, for now. So, I want something simple, like a board game what have you: open up the box, explain the rules, and play.
Yes, I do understand this isn't easy to achieve with Pathfinder. Hence my coming here for advice. u~u
EDIT: @Eltacolibre Sounds perfect! I'll definitely give that one a look. : )
@Louise Bishop: can I ask why those paths in particular? They all look a bit complicated... each of them, as best I could understand from the preview PDF, looks to have some additional rules and things which could be cumbersome. I'm not worried about having a tough time understanding them, but I'm very worried about things being too complex to explain to everyone else. I'm worried that interest would wane, and everyone would be driven away from the game.
(this is distinct from worrying about one or two players leaving. Pathfinder isn't right for everyone, and that's fine, but I don't want to scare anyone away by making the game more complicated then it already is.)
Well, Skulls and Shackles are a theme of being a pirate. Like it was said ship to ship fights can be done either via the rules, handwaved, or even skipped. I know my group at level 5 could easily win Ship to ship due to magic.
Kingmaker is just a very fun campaign of designing your own kingdom and the GM can even simplify those rules down as well. The campaign has a very fun story and the ability for the players to make decisions that affect their own kingdom.
The Mummies Mask does not really involve many other rules and is pretty conventional with dungeon diving, traps, and such.
I feel they offer a good story and the combats are not nearly as hard as APs like Reign of Winter, Iron Gods, and Rise of the Runelords. There are a few APs that the story just gets lackluster like Carrion Crown where the first book is amazing then books 2+ just falls flat. I feel the same about Serpants Skull.
I would also recommend Shattered Star. It's a very simple concept that would allow for most characters. It also makes the party go to a variety of locations and areas, which may help gauge what you want in the future. It does technically have spoilers for Rise of the Runelords, Second Darkness, and Curse of the Crimson Throne. It's very broad things, but you still may want to look into it. There are a lot of references though too that they wouldn't get without playing those campaigns.
Second Shattered Star.
I DMed two sessions in the first book where there was no combat at all, each encounter that could have been combat were resolved through roleplay and using city resources.
Really, the main thing to PC survivability for newbies is the DM.
For some games I DM - especially with newbies - I hand out a token for really good roleplay and the token is good for a re-roll sometime during the AP. It allows a retcon of sorts for poor decision making, rewards immersive play, and I do not allow more than to tokens at a time for any player, so they cannot abuse it.
The trouble with a smaller path or a oneshot is that I'm the only one who knows the rules well enough to set up a character, so I have to hold everyone's hand the whole way. It's exhausting. I'd really rather we keep the same characters for a while, if possible. x.x
Nothing stopping you doing that.
In fact, if you want, you can resurrect any characters who die during the session and keep playing them.
I'd even let people do it for free for a few weeks.