Actually, I just had a great idea.
Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest. The ability to swift action buff yourself really goes a long way. Plus you get weapon training with any weapon you have weapon focus in. You get bonus feats (though not as many as a fighter, but human warpriest can get extra as FCB).
You can pick one ranged weapon (longbow) and one two-handed weapon and still end up being pretty good with both. If you choose Erastil you get longbows as a sacred weapon and can use weapon focus to get sacred weapon on something else.
They also get way more skills.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The biggest problem I'm seeing is that you seem to think that Fighters are the best at being able to use a variety of weapons when they aren't. They can be decent with the four weapons you listed, but only at the baseline. Pathfinder rewards specialization, especially for Fighters. Magus, Cavalier, Warpriest, Slayer and a few others are all going to be better at using multiple weapons than a Fighter because they all come with damage boosts that don't care about the weapon being used.
Fighters are better at moving around in Heavy Armor and that's about it, but you already listed Boots of Striding and Springing as part of your equipment so you'll still have 30' of movement no matter what class you choose.
The worst part though is how so many people have tried to explain to you how what you want, from Fighter specifically, probably won't work out very well and your only response has been to effectively ignore them or tell them they are being unhelpful and mean.
A few other things, Cavaliers aren't dependent on their Mounts. They can do just as much damage unmounted as any Fighter that hasn't specialized in a weapon and has given up Weapon Training for Martial Flexibility and quite a bit more on a Challenge. They also get more skills and the have Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive as class skills which happen to be the main social skills.
If you just want a ton of feats, but still want to be effective with multiple weapons and don't care about throwing away 400g every time you ride a horse into battle after level 5 or so, then I think you should play a Slayer. More skills, Heavy Armor with a single feat or dip, bonus feats that can ignore prereqs (I'd suggest Archery here), and Studied Target to boost both Attack/Damage and several skills. You can spend a trait to get Diplomacy or find a class that gets it and Heavy Armor.
Sounds like you are suggesting drop half my weapons, the ability to use mounted combat and the ability to do mounted combat. If i had to focus on any of these id want to narrow it down to far enough that im still usable. (Maybe as a paly though the fact that others cant basically ignore speed penalty to heavy armor is a massive issue to me and part of the reason why I like the fighter for this very job.) What should i narrow it down to and still have some level of versatility? I see the chaplain but i dont think a war priest is at all what im looking for as religion isnt remotely part of idea here.Actually, I just had a great idea.
Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest. The ability to swift action buff yourself really goes a long way. Plus you get weapon training with any weapon you have weapon focus in. You get bonus feats (though not as many as a fighter, but human warpriest can get extra as FCB).
You can pick one ranged weapon (longbow) and one two-handed weapon and still end up being pretty good with both. If you choose Erastil you get longbows as a sacred weapon and can use weapon focus to get sacred weapon on something else.
They also get way more skills.
You can be a warpriest of a cause like valor, righteousness, courage, etc.
Additionally humans get the racial feat martial versatility that allows you to get something like weapon focus and have it apply to an entire group of weapons. Complements sacred weapon nicely.
If you tell me what weapon you think you'll use the most though, I'll be happy to build your Fighter out in Herolab and we see what it'll look like at certain levels. That Will save is probably going to be abyssmal though.
Ok what if we DID make her a paly, what feats are we looking at? We need to drop atleast 10.Fighters, despite having so many feats, actually are better specialists than generalists. They have few skill points, but are capable of putting out metric buttloads of damage in one or maybe two different ways. They have only limited mobility (moving in heavy armour doesn't count as mobility), and almost no out-of-combat utility. Due to lack of skill points, no class features to boost it, and no benefit from raising the Charisma stat, fighters are probably the worst class at Diplomacy.
As mentioned in another post, good generalist full BAB classes include the barbarian, the ranger, the slayer, paladin, and the cavalier. All of them gain bonuses to their attack and damage no matter what weapons they use. All of them gain more skill points than the fighter, and all but the barbarian have more out-of-combat utility.
Pick the fighter if you want to be a DPR turret as an archer, or a greatsword wielding damage monstrocity. Pick a ranger or a cavalier if you want to have Diplomacy, it wouldn't hurt to pick a class that gains something from a Charisma score. Actually, what's wrong with paladin?
Well, monk dip drops two. Getting a mount drops three. I'd probably also drop step up/step up + strike/following step since they have situational uses that are rarely applicable. Maybe cut throat slicer too, since that is incredibly situational. Although, it is a nice gimmick to have occasionally. Drop cleave, and cleaving finish since they RARELY get used and is dependent on your GM's bunching enemies together. That takes care of the feats.
Plus, if you don't want spells, Tempered Champion actually switches that out FOR extra feats.
In terms of stats too you can just pump your CHA like crazy. Maybe STR and DEX of 13 or something, and you can have a lower intelligence from the extra skill points. Any excess into CON, and then leftovers for STR. This way you can boost your diplomacy (especially with it being a class skill) and get Smite Evil really good, which helps you be good at bows AND swords. I think there is some Oath that lets you get extra smite evils by switching out lay on hands. Not to mention the saves.
Sounds like a pretty kickass and versatile build. Not as strong as a full on focused weapon user, but hardly horrible. And as others mention, you can use Smite Evil without worrying about the specific weapon.
...Ok what if we DID make her a paly, what feats are we looking at? We need to drop atleast 10.Fighters, despite having so many feats, actually are better specialists than generalists. They have few skill points, but are capable of putting out metric buttloads of damage in one or maybe two different ways. They have only limited mobility (moving in heavy armour doesn't count as mobility), and almost no out-of-combat utility. Due to lack of skill points, no class features to boost it, and no benefit from raising the Charisma stat, fighters are probably the worst class at Diplomacy.
As mentioned in another post, good generalist full BAB classes include the barbarian, the ranger, the slayer, paladin, and the cavalier. All of them gain bonuses to their attack and damage no matter what weapons they use. All of them gain more skill points than the fighter, and all but the barbarian have more out-of-combat utility.
Pick the fighter if you want to be a DPR turret as an archer, or a greatsword wielding damage monstrocity. Pick a ranger or a cavalier if you want to have Diplomacy, it wouldn't hurt to pick a class that gains something from a Charisma score. Actually, what's wrong with paladin?
Well, monk dip drops two. Getting a mount drops three. I'd probably also drop step up/step up + strike/following step since they have situational uses that are rarely applicable. Maybe cut throat slicer too, since that is incredibly situational. Although, it is a nice gimmick to have occasionally. Drop cleave, and cleaving finish since they RARELY get used and is dependent on your GM's bunching enemies together. That takes care of the feats.
Plus, if you don't want spells, Tempered Champion actually switches that out FOR extra feats.
In terms of stats too you can just pump your CHA like crazy. Maybe STR and DEX of 13 or something, and you can have a lower intelligence from the extra skill points. Any excess into CON, and then
Scott Wilhelm's idea. Gives improved unarmed strike and improved grapple for free. Plus a boost to all saves on top of paladin goodness. Find some archetypes to get rid of less useful abilities as well.
Not only was that not helpful, it was rude and not helpful. If the idea wasnt a good fit then " I dont think that would work because "reason here", this is my suggestions." If you have no advice why even respond in the advice section?Yes, you can be worse and trade away your class feature in exchange for being slower to get into a fight and being slightly better at being bad.
This character really depends on what "minimum viable" is for your table/group. You can keep trading away good stuff for bad stuff cause character as long as you fulfill your role for the table.
Like at some tables starting with 18 str makes your character OP.
Some tables 18 str, full bab, and some sort of combat steroid is the the benchmark to be checking against (so like 3/4 just need a bigger steroid to make up for non-full bab).So if your table only needs 18 str to be OP having 16 str and eventually 18 str and nothing else will be fine.
If your table is more like the later and assumes a higher minimum value then you trading away everything to have lower numbers will fall behind and begin to be outclassed. Like, having the bard or cleric doing more damage than you, with another full martial doing more than them, and with all of them being far better at your skills than you, not each being better than all, but between them having your skills covered better.So yes, you can trade away your WT (which includes your will save fix) for martial flexibility to get WF with your current weapon as a move action.
How was that not helpful and rude?
You say, Hey! I just realized that I can trade having weapon focus tree and +1 to attack and damage to a weapon for the ability to spend a move action to get +1 to attack with any weapon and eventually as that +1 to attack and damage scales up I can add damage too.
So at lv9 a normal fighter has(can have) WF, WS, GWF WT+2 for +4 to attack and +4 to damage, and you're trading that to spend a move action for +1 to attack and +2 to damage. As you said later, "I hate waiting turns to get to the enemy" well this spending a move action delays your turn when you can get to an enemy. R1 normally, I run up and hit it. R1 for flexibility, I run up and activate my martial flexibility.
So this is clearly a downgrade of possible power for the ability to slightly boost the build of using lots of weapons. But since the build is to use many weapons this does "work better for that theme" so it's a really good fit for theme, but to answer your other question it takes knowing stuff we don't know.
Now, the question you keep asking is, "does this work?" which seems to translate to, "would this make a viable character aka, does this not cripple the build?" So the advice was that knowing the party power level is important to answer that. If the next best thing is a melee monk with 14 str then you're fine to trade your power away for your build, your build is viable and fine cause the table is looking for a lower power level. But if you're facing an 18 str barb and 18 str battle cleric and 18 str battle selfish bard as other party members that reach at lv5 cleric +11 for 2d6+14, bard for +12 for 2d6+15, and barb for +12 for 2d6+19 you doing +7 for 2d6+12 doesn't really keep up with them and that makes trading that power away a really bad idea, cause without them you're not keeping up.
So yes, it legally works. Yes it fits thematically. Is it a good idea depends on the power level of the table. If the table level is low then "it works" in that it's viable cause the table power is low. If the table power is high then it doesn't work cause it doesn't keep up. Since we don't know the table, and you haven't giving us a power point reference, we can't tell you if "it works aka is viable" cause that's a relative answer.
This post got eaten by the site so the idea going to be rebuilt.
The message is, switch hitting doesn't work because you'll naturally stop using your worse option. Around level 6-8 is when I suspect you'll realize you only use 1 weapon and don't swap out.
builds start with 18 in main stat, 14 in secondary, have belt, WF, WS, WT and +1 magic weapon in main weapon.
If you're more melee focus then at lv6 you could be rocking a +14/+9 to hit for 2d6+11, and the masterwork composite+5 bow is at +9/+4 for 1d8+7. The bow isn't worth using. If you're fighting a guy at ranged or flying you're wasting your turns more by using your really bad bow cause you'll still need to eventually close in to melee range, so you're just delaying when you close to melee and actually do work, this is especially true if there are other melee guys cause then they are in your way giving you -4s or -8s to your attacks.
If you're more archery focused then at lv6 you could have a +12/+12/+7 for 1d8+6 likely with +1 to attack and damage with PBS with the first shot doing 2 arrows. And melee is +9/+4 for 2d6+3.
So this is why I feel switch hitting isn't a thing, your "switch style" quickly falls behind to the point of not being used. The primary weapon is so much better that it's always the right choice. The only potential switching is melee with the same weapon of a different material, not much penalty for getting over DR is good, but stops being an issue at +3 or +4 with the weapon.
a barb, slayer, bloodrager, ranger, paladin are better for multiple weapons.
Paladin oath of vengeance or tortured crusader are the best at this. Pulling out the backup bow of +9/+4 for 1d8+7 and at lv6 adding smite for +4 accuracy and +6 damage makes it +13/+8 for 1d8+13 at least makes the bow relevant with only having minimal investment. And they get a mount for free.
rangers do archery and melee decently if against their FE or lv10+
Slayers do okay at both
barbs/bloodragers work well enough for multiple melee weapons, they don't need WF as much as the fighter.
Though as the magic on weapons gets better they will all want to swap less too.
don't switch weapons ever, it's really, really not worth it.
path of vengeance makes for DPR paladins, smiting everything is awesome.
Just use a reach weapon, move into range and attack with it, no point in trying to swap weapons.
|
While mounted, lance + longsword is actually a viable combo. You can use the lance one-handed while mounted, and you still threaten inside your reach range with the sword. The lance also doesn't need to be incredibly powerful because double damage on a charge kills things even if it's just masterwork.
Speaking of lance, has anyone played the Dragoon fighter lately? It gets extra damage with spears via weapon training (and specifically gets weapon training) and some nice spear tricks instead of armor training. With nature soul - animal ally, it can get a good mount as well.
The feat Shield Brace lets you use a polearm with a shield
The feat Shield Brace lets you use a polearm with a shield
SO would a Mutagen warrior with an extra Arm. =)