| AncientSpark |
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Hey guys. On a whim, I decided to write up a handbook to the most creative combat maneuver in the game, the Dirty Trick! In the vein of the sadly outdated Trip handbook, I'm hoping this will give people some ideas of how to build a Dirty Trick character.
This is my first handbook, so feel free to leave any comments below.
| avr |
Just one misunderstanding I think you're making - the divine fighting techniques don't require separate feats for the initial and advanced benefits, they just cost the one feat which upgrades when you meet the prereq for the advanced benefits.
There are also some spells which allow dirty tricks. Grasping tentacles can be hilarious.
| avr |
BTW, the weird magus build you're thinking of under Trick Spell is the puppetmaster archetype. It gets a bonus to the save DCs from its arcane pool, adds some spells to use with the metamagic feat (like lock gaze, daze monster or suggestion) via the bard spell list, and its spell combat is limited to enchantment and illusion spells anyway.
| Latrans |
The biggest focus a lot of Dirty Tricksters should do is try to maximize CMB. At early levels, there isn't too much difference in avg AC and avg CMD, but it grows faster than AC. CR 10 monsters have an avg AC of 23.4 but a CMD of 31.5 and the gap continues to grow from there. Sure you'll be regularly entangling the CR 18 evil wizard with his 22 CMD, but an ancient green dragon is going to laugh as you flail about trying to do the same with his 48 CMD. This means that while Lore Warden is a boring way to do it, it's highly effective as they don't have to catch the enemy by surprise in order to get the bonus like the Bounty Hunter. Damaging enemies should be the focus of the rest of the party. You give them an easy target that can hardly fight back and they go for the kill. Also, it makes your tricks last longer if they decide to try to just fight with the penalty.
I'd add to races a bit more. The human (Shoanti) trait of Bred for War (+1 CMB and intimidate) and the bonus feat help this feat heavy build. It's not much but for a guide, it's best to bring up everything that you can find to help.
Also, Half-Orcs make great potential tricksters (even without the racial archetype, which I find substandard to the Cad and Lore Warden) by going with the city raised alternative racial trait. Whips are one of the best weapons for dirty tricking. (I'll talk about that more below.)
Due to RAW, the maneuver master archetype is not as good as it initially looks. In order to maneuver flurry three times, it's a -5 to all attempts and later on, the four maneuver flurry is a -12 to all attempts. This makes flurrying more than two practically useless due to the high avg CMD at those levels. But, it's extremely useful for a single level dip to snag the ability to hit two enemies with a full round action and improved dirty trick as the bonus feat, but don't bother putting more than a single level in it.
Whips are probably the best weapon to use for dirty trick due to their reach and the low damage is negligible since you'll almost never be using it for that task. It's also nice to be able to blind an ogre or giant without getting in its reach. Fairly easy to think of ways to roleplay how each type of dirty trick works using one. Obtaining Improved Whip Mastery turns Kitsune Vengeance from niche to major battlefield control by blinding or deafening with finessed reach weapon as you now threaten 10ft naturally. Add enlarge person (assuming medium sized trickster) and the Lunge feat and suddenly your dirty trickster threatens 20ft at the cost of -1 to CMB and -3 AC.
Ghost Touch: depending on how your DM interprets the rules, it's probably the only way that your GM will allow you to Dirty Trick an incorporeal enemy. Doesn't have to be on your primary weapon, but carry as a secondary just for ghost and such.
| avr |
With just one arcana a magus (not the puppetmaster, sadly) can be impressive with a combat maneuver. Wand wielder lets them use a wand of true strike with spell combat; +18 is usually enough to succeed. Use a whip or get the basic feats for the maneuver and they avoid the AoO. Pile on the feats while using this trick and they have easily the best CMB.
Also of note, one more way to use teamwork feats is to get a pet which takes them or which acts as though it does. A familiar with the valet archetype, an eldritch guardian fighter's familiar, or an eidolon/phantom/Int 3+ animal companion with dirty fighting.
| Devilkiller |
I've got a PC with a bunch of levels in Dirty Fighter and the Dirty Trick Master feat. Being able to full attack (hasted even) with Dirty Tricks allows him to disable many if not most corporeal foes. I generally go for Entangle (which lowers enemy CMD) then Pin. After that I decide whether the foe in question is worth applying another trick to so that they can't get free in a single round.
The group I play in allows any dirty trick effect to be removed as a standard action, including pinned and nauseated - else it would be way too easy for a Dirty Trick Master to take enemies out of combat for multiple rounds with just a couple of attacks. I know it isn't "official", but I had a previous conversation with the guy who wrote the feat, and he agreed this is reasonable.
Since Dirty Tricks are tough to use effectively at lower levels the PC started out as more of a tripper. There isn't much which can still be tripped at 17th level, but when a sucker shows up it is fun to be able to take advantage of it.
avr's True Strike idea is solid for boosting CMB. My girlfriend used it with a past PC to trip with a whip almost without fail (sans wand but still quite effective). If you can't perform multiple tricks per round you're likely to be a debuffer rather than a full on disabler though, so having some other debuffs to apply would probably make some sense. Hex Strike for Evil Eye might be useful, for instance.
The Eldritch Guardian or other "pet" options could help out with the number of Dirty Tricks per round, and if you have the pet wait until the PC has applied a particularly crippling trick and perhaps another debuff that could help out with the pet's potentially lower CMD.
| Scott Wilhelm |
My bad, I'll have those changes.
The Rogue Dirty Trick is mostly a problem where you can't get the initial Dirty Trick, though. I agree that once you land one Dirty Trick, landing more and scoring tons of Sneak Attack damage is very easy.
It is fair to say that when I am building a Sneak Attack melee character, I would seek multiple ways of locking in Sneak Attack Damage: Scout Archetype, Dimensional Slide Arcane Exploit, Shatter Defenses (?), Ninja Vanishing Trick. But a lot of these are also Feat intensive, require dipping, only work with certain Archetypes which can be taken only with 1 alternative class and not another, or are very situational. Dirty Tricks can be a part of any of these toolboxes and can be used in almost any situation.
The main way I envision using Dirty Tricks is with a Natural Attack Character, a Tengu with Claws who dips a level in White Haired Witch and who acquires a Helm of the Mammoth Lord. With a lot of attack/round, she'll have a lot of chances to score Blindness on her opponents after she takes Quick Dirty Trick.
| Scott Wilhelm |
Quick dirty trick only let's you get off one trick a round with it
Huh,
Benefit: On your turn, you can perform a single dirty trick combat maneuver in place of one of your melee attacks.
Shucks, you still get to attempt 1 dirty trick and also make your Full Attack.
Perhaps you can make another attempt at taking your opponent's Dex Bonus some other way the same round, say if you also have Spring Attack and Dimensionsl Slide... but this thread is about Dirty Tricks.