| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The republicans view him as an existential threat to their gravy train and want Pence in charge. The media views him as an existential threat to press freedom and want him out. The "Deep State" view him as a fool who is endangering national security and dragging them into partisan bull#&^#, and they want him out. Outside of his core base, a lot of people with power want him unceremoniously hurled out of office, preferably right into a jail cell.
Why, oh #*&$ing why, would he be handing out ammunition like this. If he just shut the hell up and stopped his goons from going out and blatantly lying, this would probably blow over. Instead, he is admitting that he fired someone in part because they were investigating him for collusion with foreign interests, and to boot he is then threatening that person for not staying completely silent.
This man is genuinely a moron.
You know, I and others have been saying something similar about Republicans viewing him as an existential threat, but you know what? I don't think they do or care. They seem someone who is mostly divorced from policy and the appearance of partisanship, and willing to sign off on what they want.
They have had plenty of chances to actually take a stand. Sure a few politicians here and there critique him, but none have really put there votes with their votes where their mouth is, at least enough to matter. They have rushed through a garbage health reform bill at his urging, and confirmed practically every cabinet appointment no matter how unqualified they are for the position.
The most scary thing for me about this situation isn't the Russian connection, but that all signs are currently pointing to Trump selecting a political appointee to the post of FBI director, a position traditionally reserved for non-bipartisan career law enforcement people. Another norm that Trump is going to violate that I am not sure we can walk back from.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
A bit of a light-hearted diversion...
[AV Club:] "People are printing out Sean Spicers and hiding them in bushes"
And yes, a #GardenSpicer has been spotted outside of the Watergate.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Comey was the Director of the FBI, he was not in charge of the Investigation of Russian Email hack and election intervention.
The current acting Director of the FBI was in charge of the Investigation
in conjunction with Deputy Director in charge of the Counter Intelligence Division. They both reported to Comey but The FBI Director does not oversee Investigations he testifies before congress and manages the Deputy Directors.
Well, the President came out and said that the Russian investigation was a reason for firing Comey, so where does that leave this line of argument?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My favorite quote from a Heritage Foundation fellow:
If true this confirms every possible fear we have about his suitability to be President.
Paul Rosenzweig is ......a Visiting Fellow at The Heritage Foundation.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The White House is disputing this, of course - but given its total lack of credibility, I'm not sure how many people are going to accept anything they say about it.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The most scary thing for me about this situation isn't the Russian connection, but that all signs are currently pointing to Trump selecting a political appointee to the post of FBI director, a position traditionally reserved for non-bipartisan career law enforcement people. Another norm that Trump is going to violate that I am not sure we can walk back from.
The FBI is something most of us take for granted today, but it doesn't actually have too sterling a history, and wasn't always there. Maybe this is the beginning of the end of something we may well be better off without. Here's hoping the CIA, NSA, DHS, and TSA follow it into its grave.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A history of the FBI
Kompromat
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well, a lot of things that might once have been conspiracy theories need to be taken seriously now, but this one doesn't seem to have a lot going for it. Especially eight months later with no evidence and no apparent lasting effects. I mean, that she was hiding some crippling illness was conspiracy theory enough - that it was Russian poisoning even more so.
Valid points. The main draw for me is the guy saying it. There is a man who's earned no small degree of clout. Who knows? Perhaps they tried poisoning her for a while, then stopped once Trump took the White House and they no longer felt they needed to worry about it.
More than that though, what taboo on taking conspiracies seriously? In the age of "pizzagate"?
Last time I checked, anybody who openly doubts, to any degree and for any reason, the official stories of JFK's/RFK's/MLK's/Princess Diana's/Paul Wellstone's death, or who wouldn't put it past Bush, Cheney, et al to think it worth expending American lives in order to advance their own agenda (or just to cover up after the fact for their own criminal incompetence) is immediately dubbed a pathetic, delusional crank so desperate to believe that there is a comforting, all-powerful Order in the world that they'd be willing to snuggle up to and mindlessly believe even in a cartoonishly Evil Order. :P
I know enough about the kind of people who are willing to consider these possibilities that I know that that kind of pop-psychology crap is 100% pure b~$~$*%@, perhaps something Big Brother made up just to pleasure itself to. They're all just irrational, spoiled children in need of a firm fatherly hand....
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Little ranty IHIYC but I approve.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If there was even the faint possibility of Hillary being poisoned we would have heard about it during the campaign. It would have been a sharp rebuke to people concerned about her health, a good way to get sympathy, and she could have associated Trump with it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Makes you wonder what he's telling people on the golf course. :-)
Personally completely ok with him staying at the golf course. If he gets absolutely nothing on his agenda done Ill be happier for it. Plus it might make some of his supporters (even if its a very small amount) realize what they got themselves into.
|
The White House is disputing this, of course - but given its total lack of credibility, I'm not sure how many people are going to accept anything they say about it.
Technically, they were double-speaking it... that is, using hyper-technicalities to 'dispute' things that were never stated in an effort to fool people in to thinking that they were disputing the things which were stated.
Specifically, they denied that Trump 'discussed sources and methods'... but the Washington Post story did not claim that he had. Rather, the story stated that he disclosed top secret information and the city it came from... which any remotely competent national intelligence agency will be able to trace back to the sources and methods.
The sad thing is that such 'non-denial denials' actually work a lot of the time... and when they don't there is always the option of falling back on, 'well what we said about no sources and methods was TRUE'... ignoring the fact that their claim of the story being false was NOT true... but sadly their supporters often overlook that nuance as well.
Anyway, they have now moved on to Trump's 'right' to do so and 'nothing to see here'. Hoping that people will overlook that Trump just betrayed one of our allies so he could kiss up to the Russians.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The White House is disputing this, of course - but given its total lack of credibility, I'm not sure how many people are going to accept anything they say about it.Technically, they were double-speaking it... that is, using hyper-technicalities to 'dispute' things that were never stated in an effort to fool people in to thinking that they were disputing the things which were stated.
Specifically, they denied that Trump 'discussed sources and methods'... but the Washington Post story did not claim that he had. Rather, the story stated that he disclosed top secret information and the city it came from... which any remotely competent national intelligence agency will be able to trace back to the sources and methods.
The sad thing is that such 'non-denial denials' actually work a lot of the time... and when they don't there is always the option of falling back on, 'well what we said about no sources and methods was TRUE'... ignoring the fact that their claim of the story being false was NOT true... but sadly their supporters often overlook that nuance as well.
Anyway, they have now moved on to Trump's 'right' to do so and 'nothing to see here'. Hoping that people will overlook that Trump just betrayed one of our allies so he could kiss up to the Russians.
Trump sees nothing wrong with burning an ally's agent(s)/source(s), details of which were so sensitive, the U.S. hadn't shared them with other allies. If our allies can't trust us not to undermine their intelligence collection efforts (and likely get their people killed), they aren't going to share future intel with us... intel which could prevent the next terrorist attack or other threat to the nation.
"As President I wanted to share with Russia (at an openly scheduled W.H. meeting) which I have the absolute right to do, facts pertaining...."
"...to terrorism and airline flight safety. Humanitarian reasons, plus I want Russia to greatly step up their fight against ISIS & terrorism."
Edit: And once again, Trump throws his White House staff (this time, McMaster and Dina Powell) under the bus after they obfuscated/lied for him. More Trump demonstrating how he runs the Trump empire.
But yeah, tell me the bullsh!t about Hillary's emails again.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hillary had emails. On more than one computer! That could have been hacked by russia. Hacking is bad!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
NYTimes.com: "Comey Memo Says Trump Asked Him to End Flynn Investigation"
President Trump asked the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, to shut down the federal investigation into Mr. Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, in an Oval Office meeting in February, according to a memo that Mr. Comey wrote shortly after the meeting.
Mr. Comey created similar memos — including some that are classified — about every phone call and meeting he had with the president, the two people said. It is unclear whether Mr. Comey told the Justice Department about the conversation or his memos.
Mr. Comey had been in the Oval Office that day with other senior national security officials for a terrorism threat briefing. When the meeting ended, Mr. Trump told those present — including Mr. Pence and Attorney General Jeff Sessions — to leave the room except for Mr. Comey.
Alone in the Oval Office, Mr. Trump began the discussion by condemning leaks to the news media, saying that Mr. Comey should consider putting reporters in prison for publishing classified information, according to one of Mr. Comey’s associates.
Please please please don't let Trump start missiling/bombing some country.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This could be big.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This could be big.
No.
The Republicans in Congress have no reason to impeach him. The Democrats can't. Evidence needs to be judged. There's no venue at the moment that is willing and able to pass judgement on Trump.
Ryan and McConnell are old hands. They still need Trump's base to win elections. And they aren't going to try to impeach Trump unless it's clear that there is overwhelming support for that action among Trump's grassroots supporters. [Who are currently being distracted from the Comey memo issue by a shiny called "Clinton staffer sent emails to Wikileaks and was just murdered. Which, of course, both the police and his family say isn't true, but it serves its purpose]
The president can only be removed from office if a majority of the House votes to impeach and a two-thirds majority of the Senate votes to convict. And to get the process started, the bill of impeachment must make it to the House floor. Guess who controls that process?
Nothing will happen. There isn't the political will.
NYTimes.com: "Comey Memo Says Trump Asked Him to End Flynn Investigation"
President Trump asked the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, to shut down the federal investigation into Mr. Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, in an Oval Office meeting in February, according to a memo that Mr. Comey wrote shortly after the meeting.Mr. Comey created similar memos — including some that are classified — about every phone call and meeting he had with the president, the two people said. It is unclear whether Mr. Comey told the Justice Department about the conversation or his memos.Please please please don't let Trump start missiling/bombing some country.Mr. Comey had been in the Oval Office that day with other senior national security officials for a terrorism threat briefing. When the meeting ended, Mr. Trump told those present — including Mr. Pence and Attorney General Jeff Sessions — to leave the room except for Mr. Comey.
Alone in the Oval Office, Mr. Trump began the discussion by condemning leaks to the news media, saying that Mr. Comey should consider putting reporters in prison for publishing classified information, according to one of Mr. Comey’s associates.
I wonder whether this request is what Trump was threatening Comey over with the Twitter thing, and if so, whether there is more in the same vein.
I wonder whether this is what Trump was threatening Comey over with the Twitter thing, and if so, whether there is more in the same vein.
That's backwards: Trump was threatening to reveal tapes of private conversations (which may or may not actually exist). Comey was writing memos about those conversations. He was not threatening to reveal those memos
What got leaked was the memos, not the tapes.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm gonna get wagged....
Ah, by "this," I meant "that Trump asked Comey to kill the investigation of Flynn," not "the memos per se." I'm not sure I have any reason to believe that Trump even knew about the memos, but there'd be an obvious motive to try to get Comey not to reveal the request to drop the Flynn investigation. I edited my previous post to be more specific.
I'm not sure I have any reason to believe that Trump even knew about the memos, but there'd be an obvious motive to try to get Comey not to reveal the request to drop the Flynn investigation.
I agree Trump probably didn't know about the memos.
Trump employees sign draconian non-disclosure agreements. I doubt Trump has ever fired someone who could actually talk about what happened. He had no idea that people could document conversations and then reveal them with no punishment
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
When your boss does something shaky? Write it down.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I can't see the party abandoning him until and unless there are electoral consequences. Which means not until the 2018 midterm elections at best. Polls I think won't be enough to change their minds.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I can't see the party abandoning him until and unless there are electoral consequences. Which means not until the 2018 midterm elections at best. Polls I think won't be enough to change their minds.
I agree. Consider his base though... the polls didn't underestimate them, they ignored them or stifled them into silence or lying because arguing wasn't worth the inevitable response of being called racist, privileged, ignorant, or deplorable.
There is to much outrage among the left. No one cares because they hear leftist hatred every single day. It simply ceases to have any impact on the average Trump supporter. My point being if there ever is something legitimate no one will care because Democrats have been calling for his impeachment since the day he assumed office.
I see this, and see a lot of parallels with him and Andrew Jackson...
Well, one major difference. Jackson looked out for his voters.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Sadly yes, there is no coherent policy on the Right, there is nothing but hating liberals. Anything they are for must be fought, and anything they are against must be supported at all costs.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It wasn't the base that was ignored (or stifled or lying) in the polling.
It was the swing voters and the new or occasional voters who came out for him.
The polls also just weren't that far off... Clinton beat him in the national popular vote by about the margin the polls suggested she would.
Some of the state polls were off a few percent, but that is always the case. The biggest polling error of the election was Sanders' primary win in Michigan. Nothing that happened on election day even came close. Indeed, I'm not sure any of the election day divergences were even outside the stated uncertainty margin of the polls.
|
|
Sadly yes, there is no coherent policy on the Right, there is nothing but hating liberals. Anything they are for must be fought, and anything they are against must be supported at all costs.
Spoiler Alert! I'm a conservative.
I bear no hatred for liberals because I used to be one. I casually engage them in conversation when and where I can. If two people have two different answers to something they should compare notes and learn from the other to find the source of divergence.
I firmly believe the healthy relationship I have with my spouse isn't based on our agreeing 90% of the time, it's about how we tolerate our disagreements by respecting the others point of view. Unfortunately, due to the polarization in our country any disagreement is bad and the other side evil or stupid and the other side must be mocked or silenced.
I honestly think there is nothing to see here. Its a non-issue. Drop it or keep talking about it for the next two weeks in "outrage".
-Trump asking him do something is not illegal (perhaps unethical).
-Comey refusing is not illegal, but he works at the discretion of his bosses. I have more respect for him refusing (if true) than anytime in the past after the politicization of the Justice Department under the Obama administration.
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Unfortunately, due to the polarization in our country any disagreement is bad and the other side evil or stupid and the other side must be mocked or silenced.
Disagreement isn't bad.
Racism is bad.
Misogyny is bad.
Religious bigotry is bad.
Denial of scientific reality is bad.
Robbing the poor to pay the rich is bad.
Staggering incompetence is bad.
Et cetera
BTW, I disagree on "evil or stupid". There is nothing mutually exclusive about those two things.
I honestly think there is nothing to see here. Its a non-issue. Drop it or keep talking about it for the next two weeks in "outrage".
-Trump asking him do something is not illegal (perhaps unethical).
Trump asking Comey to suspend a criminal investigation is absolutely unethical, and potentially illegal.
Trump firing Comey after the investigation was NOT dropped is probably illegal. Only NOT so if he can credibly show that the firing had nothing to do with the investigation... which he really can't after going on national television and saying it did.
It wasn't the base that was ignored (or stifled or lying) in the polling.
It was the swing voters and the new or occasional voters who came out for him.The polls also just weren't that far off... Clinton beat him in the national popular vote by about the margin the polls suggested she would.
Some of the state polls were off a few percent, but that is always the case. The biggest polling error of the election was Sanders' primary win in Michigan. Nothing that happened on election day even came close. Indeed, I'm not sure any of the election day divergences were even outside the stated uncertainty margin of the polls.
They weren't outside the margin of error. But having vilified the polls I don't think Republican politicians will be able or willing to use polls to abandon Trump, and they've demonstrated that they'll put up with anything he can do at the moment. Impeachment, if it ever happens, won't be until 2018/19.
|
|
Racism is bad. (especially when it is used by the Justice Department to justify not pursuing investigations into law breakers of a minority persuasion because of bad optics.)
Misogyny is bad. Too bad Trump had the first successful presidential campaign headed by a woman. Too bad he pays women that work for him based on worth. (Hillary paid female staff workers less than their male counterparts, but hey, locker room talk is much more important than actual real life actions.
Religious bigotry is bad. However, the travel bans do not reference religion in any way outside his campaign statements which are not actually admissible as they aren't attached to the executive order in any way as stated by the judge in the case but he allowed it anyway.
Denial of scientific reality is bad... where to start? shrug... other forums exist on global warming...err cooling, err weather unpredictability.
Staggering incompetence is bad. Which is why Comey was fired after the worst investigation into crimes committed by Hillary and her staff were found, then granted immunity to all the wrong doers, followed by destroying of the evidence BY THE FBI is beyond staggering. Comey should have been fired. Kudos for Trump employing him as long as he did (or maybe it was because of the quasi-investigation into Russian ties that prevented Trump from firing him).
|
|
Consider an alternative...
Trump doesn't want the country distracted by non-important issues.
If you say he's doing it for his own good, consider this:
This is the stated reason he doesn't want Hillary pursued. (The investigation is complete, the case is laid out, the statute of limitations has not expired). It can be in front of a grand jury next week, but he doesn't need to see a 70+ year woman in an orange jumpsuit because it would only serve as a distraction.
America has problems bigger than Flynn, bigger than Hillary. We need to get to work so our children won't be saddled with our debts. No matter how we would like to cheer like a Roman coliseum mob when the other side gets bloodied, its a only a distraction from the major problems facing us so the comparision is apt.
|
|
Different or alternative... Does it matter? If we only engage in conversation with those who are of the same political mindset as us it is effectively self-imposed intellectual segregation.
If you only know your side of an argument you don't even know that.
We value diversity in everything but thought. I welcome you to my world anytime. Please wipe off your shoes before entry (i.e be respectful).
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I feel like the word "alternative" is not especially well-received at the moment, given our fun new phrase "alternative facts".
But more seriously, Grey_Mage, you said above that you want people to "get to work" so we can have less debt. That's fair enough - I think most citizens can agree that not being in debt is better than the alternative. That said, average household income trends much higher in liberal states than conservative states.
Similarly, blue states tend to contribute more in federal taxes than they take in federal benefits, while red states tend to take more in federal benefits than they pay in federal taxes. With all respect, why do you (apparently) feel that Conservatism is better for the economy than Liberalism?