Comey and Trump


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Liberty's Edge

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Grey_Mage wrote:
No debate happened with the ACA.

Nonsense. Every version of the ACA was publicly posted, discussed, and scored by the CBO before it was voted on. More than can be said for the AHCA.

Quote:
Even Then-House Majority Leader Pelosi said, "We have to pass the bill, to know what's in the bill".

Falsified quotation. She said the bill had to be passed so that "you" (i.e. the american people) will know what is in it.


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Grey_Mage wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
Grey_Mage wrote:


Health care reform... I was not impacted by the previous bill, nor this bill. Understand that the larger argument that we haven't had is "What responsibility does a society have to keep a member healthy / alive?" Consider that the majority of healthcare spending is used in the final years of life. Also consider if you had to bear the responsibility personally for all your bills many would chose to die earlier rather than burden their family with debts, or at the least save their accumulated wealth to pass on to the next generation rather than spend it on themselves.

I understand this will be misconstrued as conservatives want people to die, but that's not the point. The point is peoples attitude regarding spending change drastically if the collective pay for it vice individually.

If this theory were true, you could point to a country with guaranteed health care where costs increased more than they have here, where health care is not guaranteed.

Can you point to a country that guarantees health care and spends more than the US (say... as a percentage of GDP)?

No because the question is a non-starter. No other country's medical care is rising at our current rate so the rest of the question is inevitably false. Socialized medicine doesn't work (well), it has been tried but innovation drops down and equipment ages without updates as indicated in both the UK and Canada. The first couple of years is fine but there isn't money to replace gear and wait lines are horrible.

A large chunk of our increasing costs are derived from innovation and overhead of dealing with insurance agencies as a barrier to care.

Can I reverse this question a moment? Student debt is skyrocketing, yet colleges are paying professors to do research rather than teach day in and day out. Why shouldn't we socialize higher education as well?

You made a very specific claim, that socialized medicine would lead to higher costs, because people would want to use as much of it as they could to prolong their lives. Since we both know there are multiple countries with socialized medicine, if your claim is true, it shouldn't be hard to demonstrate it's veracity.

Can you demonstrate that your hypothesis has merit?

I'm in favor of free education. You might think that because I'm currently attending college my opinion is based purely on self-interests, but my college is already free. I think everyone should have the opportunity that I have if they are qualified academically.


Is it really too much to ask for separate threads to be made re: US health care, socializing/privatizing US education etc.?


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Discuss US Healthcare here please.

Discuss US Education here please.

Thanks in advance.


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Grey_Mage wrote:


Can I reverse this question a moment? Student debt is skyrocketing, yet colleges are paying professors to do research rather than teach day in and day out. Why shouldn't we socialize higher education as well?

As an actual college professor I find this hilarious. Schools provide trivial funding, if that, for research. Schools only provide a variably sized start up package so that the professor can get his lab up and running, a tiny bit of money to attend conferences, and usually a space for an office and lab. Professors are expected to actively pursue NSF and NIH grants to fund there own research, and if they can't...pay for it out of pocket. On top of that, many high profile positions actually REQUIRE grant money for the professor to survive, only paying out half salary with the other half being expected to come from grants.

For many professors, we spent a large chunk of our time endlessly applying for grants, which is a huge laborious process with tons of bureacratic red tape to get through not to mention the huge time sink that is writing the grant itself. Often this ends up as wasted effort, since continual cuts to grant-funding agencies against rising costs of research and competition means that 80% of grants get rejected. To give you a sense, between various job tasks, I regulary put in 12+ hours a day 7 days a week, only a small proportion of which is actually reflected in my salary.

Once/if we get a grant, as much as half of our grant money goes to University overhead. The whole lump sum in general goes straight to the school, which often makes money out of the interest.

And high profile research can often be a major selling point in public media, which can get more students interested in attending your school, and get more alumni excited enough to donate. I know my University loved the free media attention by the new fossil dolphin I published on last year. And a strong research program allows you to involve undergrads into your work, so they get hands on experience in science.

A strong research program also attracts good grad students, which in turn provide good TA's. Which can be paid far far more less than a professor to teach a lab.

At any rate, Faculty salaries really are not behind the increase cost of tuition, and like many professions may be stagnating in some parts of the country. If you want to point a finger at increasing student loan debt and tuition, look major infrastructure developments (especially those related to athletics, ballooning administration staff (and for the higher ups there salaries), and our society's overwhelming treatment of College as high school 2.0, and pushing many folks towards higher education where other avenues might be better for them.

So to summarize:

Schools for the most part DON'T pay for instructors to do research, and in fact may underpay research profs

Schools rake in a lot of money from research grants, both directly (Overhead) and indirectly (prestige, reduced costs for grad student TAs)

Many if not most researchers end up paying for at least some research costs out of there pocket.

Faculty support for research doesn't have anything to do with increasing student debt OR tuition.


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The Mad Comrade wrote:
Is it really too much to ask for separate threads to be made re: US health care, socializing/privatizing US education etc.?

Sorry...had to reply with my post when I saw that comment, but will transfer it over

Liberty's Edge

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Just the latest in the ongoing 'rain of shoes dropping';

Eighteen more contacts with Russian officials that Trump campaign 'failed to disclose' identified

Flynn delayed military plan opposed by Turkey, while 'failing to disclose' that he was on their payroll

Trump appointed Flynn as National Security Adviser despite knowing he was under investigation as a possible Turkish agent

GOP leaders were 'only joking' about Trump being on Putin's payroll


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I was just skimming this thread (as I do most political threads on Paizo) and I have to say

1) You guys are doing great at being pretty civil to the Trump guy
2) The Trump guy gets points for persistence
3) MMCJawa is right on the money in regards to higher ed and this statement "our society's overwhelming treatment of College as high school 2.0, and pushing many folks towards higher education where other avenues might be better for them."

I'm in education and I see this every single day. How many liberal arts degrees do we need in this country? How many welders? Or machinists?

Ok, so to keep this point on OP topic

Electionbettingodds.com has a 40% chance of Trump never finishing his term...


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Can we get the Clinton-Assassin-Conspiracy-Theorists to weigh in on Roger Ailes dying less than 24 hours after an independent prosecutor was named to oversee the Trump-Russia investigation?


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Where's Alex Jones when you need him!


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I'd like to think I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but that's certainly... interesting... timing. Correlation does not prove causation, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was at least investigated.

Side note: And now, after the nice White House statement, Trump took to Twitter to complain about the "special councel" [sic], decrying it as a witch hunt.

Well, maybe he shouldn't have thrown Rosenstein under the bus. I'm not gonna lie, I feel like 90% of his problems are self-inflicted... I mean, he just can't stop making things worse for himself.


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OTOH, he was 77 and likely not particularly healthy. Seemed overweight, if nothing else.


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BigDTBone wrote:
Can we get the Clinton-Assassin-Conspiracy-Theorists to weigh in on Roger Ailes dying less than 24 hours after an independent prosecutor was named to oversee the Trump-Russia investigation?

Fox will have the "reliable detective" on soon connecting this to Seth Rich. DNC hired a band of lesbian gang members to do the hit is the only reasonable explanation.


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Are the lesbian gang members farmers hell-bent on colonising the midwest?


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Who told you there are farmers in the Midwest!!

I'm seriously asking.


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Fox Mulder, F.B.I. wrote:

Who told you there are farmers in the Midwest!!

I'm seriously asking.

The Truth... is ...Out There...


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GM Niles wrote:

I was just skimming this thread (as I do most political threads on Paizo) and I have to say

1) You guys are doing great at being pretty civil to the Trump guy
2) The Trump guy gets points for persistence
3) MMCJawa is right on the money in regards to higher ed and this statement "our society's overwhelming treatment of College as high school 2.0, and pushing many folks towards higher education where other avenues might be better for them."

I'm in education and I see this every single day. How many liberal arts degrees do we need in this country? How many welders? Or machinists?

Ok, so to keep this point on OP topic

Electionbettingodds.com has a 40% chance of Trump never finishing his term...

I don't think many people would be uncivil to the Trump guy. Contrary to popular belief, most people want answers, not blood.


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Freehold DM wrote:
I don't think many people would be uncivil to the Trump guy. Contrary to popular belief, most people want answers, not blood.

I'm pretyy confident those are the same thing.


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{waits impatiently by front door for lesbian gang on motorcycles towing little U-Haul trailers} I'm right here! I wanna join!


Why not both.


Well Freehold, I've lurked in *literally* hundreds of these types of threads since joining in 2012 and I've witnessed some pretty uncivil behavior.

On the OP: Many of Trump's problems have been either caused or exacerbated by his Twitter feed. I honestly believed that once he became President that thing was gonna go bye bye. Well, here it is biting him in the ass. I really do hope that his Twitter feed gets entered into evidence (would that be the first time Twitter is used as evidence in a trial?)


GM Niles wrote:

Well Freehold, I've lurked in *literally* hundreds of these types of threads since joining in 2012 and I've witnessed some pretty uncivil behavior.

On the OP: Many of Trump's problems have been either caused or exacerbated by his Twitter feed. I honestly believed that once he became President that thing was gonna go bye bye. Well, here it is biting him in the ass. I really do hope that his Twitter feed gets entered into evidence (would that be the first time Twitter is used as evidence in a trial?)

His Tweets are just the President making public statements.

If those public statements reveal more about what the president is thinking, isn't that a good thing? However horrifying it may be.


thejeff wrote:


If those public statements reveal more about what the president is thinking, isn't that a good thing? However horrifying it may be.

Wasn't plausible deniability that that wasn't what he was thinking the only thing between half of America and Lovecraftesque levels of mental damage?


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even republicans think he's on putin's payroll


It's not a good thing when what you're thinking causes you problems. Seriously, how many problems for Trump have arisen directly from that stupid Twitter feed?


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GM Niles wrote:
It's not a good thing when what you're thinking causes you problems. Seriously, how many problems for Trump have arisen directly from that stupid Twitter feed?

between his campaign rhetoric now coming back to bite him on several issues and twitter, I would say pretty much all of Trump's problems are self-inflicted and never needed to happen.


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I do love US politics...

Its fascinatingly murky stuff..... something unquestionably went on with Trump and Putin

Its a shame no-one will ever find out :((


MMCJawa wrote:
GM Niles wrote:
It's not a good thing when what you're thinking causes you problems. Seriously, how many problems for Trump have arisen directly from that stupid Twitter feed?
between his campaign rhetoric now coming back to bite him on several issues and twitter, I would say pretty much all of Trump's problems are self-inflicted and never needed to happen.

Yeah, if he wasn't Trump, he wouldn't have all these problems.

OTOH, if he wasn't Trump, he wouldn't be President.

The base loves much of this stuff. Still does. It's him cleaning the swamp and taking on the establishment leftists in Washington.


doc roc wrote:

I do love US politics...

Its fascinatingly murky stuff..... something unquestionably went on with Trump and Putin

Its a shame no-one will ever find out :((

It'll come out. The FBI already knows far more than the public does. There are multiple investigations and Trump's already overplayed his hand at squashing them.


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Speaking of coming out

Quote:
Conversations between Flynn and Kislyak accelerated after the Nov. 8 vote as the two discussed establishing a back channel for communication between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin that could bypass the U.S. national security bureaucracy


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thejeff wrote:
doc roc wrote:

I do love US politics...

Its fascinatingly murky stuff..... something unquestionably went on with Trump and Putin

Its a shame no-one will ever find out :((

It'll come out. The FBI already knows far more than the public does. There are multiple investigations and Trump's already overplayed his hand at squashing them.

seconded. rats tend to jump off sinking ships.

almost everyone squealed - eventually - when it came to Watergate. When Nixon was still strong in 1973, he was able to keep the cover-up running. By the time sping/summer 1974 rolled around, all his rats were squeaking to Congress and the FBI.

Scarab Sages

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Yakman wrote:
all his rats were squeaking to Congress and the FBI.

I resent the comparison


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Oh, hey, Roger Ailes passed.


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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Oh, hey, Roger Ailes passed.

The first presidential candidate he worked with was Richard Nixon. The last presidential candidate he worked with was Donald Trump.


Lets... take Ailes to a new thread.

Or don't.


GM Niles wrote:

Well Freehold, I've lurked in *literally* hundreds of these types of threads since joining in 2012 and I've witnessed some pretty uncivil behavior.

would being uncivil to him make things better or worse?

Liberty's Edge

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BigNorseWolf wrote:

Lets... take Ailes to a new thread.

Or don't.

Can we have another thread for suggesting things be taken to other threads?


CBDunkerson wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Lets... take Ailes to a new thread.

Or don't.

Can we have another thread for suggesting things be taken to other threads?

Take it to another thread!

Silver Crusade

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I don't know where else to post this sooooo,

SWAMP bill would require Trump to reimburse the government for funds spent on travel to his own properties.

That also covers all his previous visits too.


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Knight who says Meh wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Oh, hey, Roger Ailes passed.
The first presidential candidate he worked with was Richard Nixon. The last presidential candidate he worked with was Donald Trump.

WaPo: "Trump claims to be victim of ‘witch hunt’ following appointment of special counsel in Russia case"

Hmmm...

"Nixon Sees 'Witch-Hunt,' Insiders Say" - Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, (Washington Post) July 22, 1973


It's a 4 trillion dollar federal budget. I really don't care if he's skimming .000000001 percent of it off the top

Silver Crusade

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
It's a 4 trillion dollar federal budget. I really don't care if he's skimming .000000001 percent of it off the top

I care.


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Rysky wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
It's a 4 trillion dollar federal budget. I really don't care if he's skimming .000000001 percent of it off the top
I care.

As do I, when he and Republicans are constantly lying about "balancing the budget" as an excuse for ways to gut the ACA, gut public education funding, and deny needed funds to Hurricane Matthew victims in NC (just for starters).

Silver Crusade

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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Rysky wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
It's a 4 trillion dollar federal budget. I really don't care if he's skimming .000000001 percent of it off the top
I care.
As do I, when he and Republicans are constantly lying about "balancing the budget" as an excuse for ways to gut the ACA, gut public education funding, and deny needed funds to Hurricane Matthew victims in NC (just for starters).

And the 9/11 First Responders bill...


Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Rysky wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
It's a 4 trillion dollar federal budget. I really don't care if he's skimming .000000001 percent of it off the top
I care.
As do I, when he and Republicans are constantly lying about "balancing the budget" as an excuse for ways to gut the ACA, gut public education funding, and deny needed funds to Hurricane Matthew victims in NC (just for starters).

The problem there is the hypocrisy and not getting those things done, not the skimming itself.

How about we let them skim if they get the job done?

Silver Crusade

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How about f$~# no?


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Rysky wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
It's a 4 trillion dollar federal budget. I really don't care if he's skimming .000000001 percent of it off the top
I care.
As do I, when he and Republicans are constantly lying about "balancing the budget" as an excuse for ways to gut the ACA, gut public education funding, and deny needed funds to Hurricane Matthew victims in NC (just for starters).

The problem there is the hypocrisy and not getting those things done, not the skimming itself.

How about we let them skim if they get the job done?

Also, he has skimmed far more than $4,000.

Liberty's Edge

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
How about we let them skim if they get the job done?

Like that would ever happen?


MMCJawa wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
Is it really too much to ask for separate threads to be made re: US health care, socializing/privatizing US education etc.?
Sorry...had to reply with my post when I saw that comment, but will transfer it over

No need to apologize, MMCJawa. Figured the two topics were "currently active" enough to warrant separate threads. Then I hid them. ;)


CBDunkerson wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
How about we let them skim if they get the job done?
Like that would ever happen?

[raspy respirator] The sarcasm is strong in this post. [/raspy respirator]

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