Lets say there was a unique weapon that could crit on a roll of 17-20 (13-20 with improved critical), what classes / archetypes would get the most out of critting that often, and why?
What specific feats would you pick to maximise the power of such a weapon?
Eldritch Knights like critting
Any companion build with outflank
Vital Strike builds.
Eldritch Knights like critting
Any companion build with outflank
Vital Strike builds.
Why vital strike builds?
Damn. 15-20 is already ridiculously strong.
Best? Don't know. I think many classes can benefit from crit builds. Fighters with their weapon training and loads of feats makes it easier, plus critical mastery. Barbarians can make nice use of crits too. Crits on a smite can be quite painful. Crits with spellstrike can be pretty potent as well.
I think that once tou cheese the crit potential this much, being the best revolves around everything else that is there to let you get in and hit and then survive being in the fray.
Why vital strike builds?Eldritch Knights like critting
Any companion build with outflank
Vital Strike builds.
Because they are one big hit builds so when you crit with them its equivalent to critting with all the attacks in a full attack for other builds.
I think it is possible to get that crit threat range at lvl 20 as an investigator - basically anyone with high bonuses to dmg would get a lot out of it (any martial pretty much), and if you take crit feats even better
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Because they are one big hit builds so when you crit with them its equivalent to critting with all the attacks in a full attack for other builds.Why vital strike builds?Eldritch Knights like critting
Any companion build with outflank
Vital Strike builds.
"These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total."
Actually makes me think that Vital Strike builds benefit least from high critical ranges...
I know there are a plethora of effects that trigger when critting, either from class abilities or feats, are any of them particularly good with a crit range this high?
Oh bummer
There's critical feats for high level full-BAB types. e.g. Staggering Critical. Also the ____ Strike feats like Tripping Strike, which come in at mid-levels. If you can get a merciful weapon of this type Enforcer might be very good.
Some teamwork feats trigger off crits which makes me think a hunter might get some real use out of them. e.g. Sieze the Moment.
But really the class after magus which would enjoy this most is the swashbuckler, if the weapon is one-handed or light.
Eldritch knight get to cast a spell as a swift when they crit.
Eldritch knight get to cast a spell as a swift when they crit.
Which is only once per round.
Which means even if you critical more than once, it's a waste.
And if you do cast a spell that does damage via an attack roll, it doesn't benefit from your critical multiplier like it would for a Magus.
I've never got to play such a high level EK but I always thought the best way to use that spell would be to isolate the guy you're fighting from any allies they had through pit/wall spells or even just a debuff that has an effect even on a save, inflict pain for example can pretty heavily nerf their next turn, irrisitable dance is the best for this.
And if you do cast a spell that does damage via an attack roll, it doesn't benefit from your critical multiplier like it would for a Magus.
Well to be fair a Magus doesn't really benefit from a high crit multiplier either (they use the crit-range, but not the multiplier of the weapon).
Paladins (or anyone else with access to BLESS WEAPON) would do great - Actually I think a lower BAB character with a high UMD and access to that spell would be great. If you already need a 13 or higher to hit then it turns every hit into a crit (effectively doubling your damage output).
EDIT: Actually the Fighter capstone ability (WEAPON MASTERY) would go really damn well with something like this. 13-20/X3 would add a LOT of damage. There's a couple of other classes that get something like that (Swashbuckler's I think?)
I did mean threat range when I said critical multiplier; sorry that it didn't come across that way.
Otherwise, I wholly agree.
At the risk of showing off my ignorance here, how does one get a crit threat of 17-20? I'm not aware of any statted weapon with that range nor a way to increase an 18-20 to 17-20 within the pathfinder rules.
Only thing off the top of my head that I know of that does that is a special material(arcanite, if I recall correctly) in the World of Warcraft tabletop that increases a weapon's crit-threat by 1, but it specifically doesn't stack with improved critical/keen(an arcanite 18-20 weapon with either effect would be 14-20, not 13).
There are no 17-20 weapons in the game, it's a custom weapon for their table (surprise surprise). And there are no 17-20 weapons in the game, as it was done due to potential crit-fishing abuse like we're seeing in this thread.
The lowest you can get is a 15-20.
**EDIT** I thought Swashbucklers were able to get 14-20/X2 weaponry, but I guess I was wrong.
At the risk of showing off my ignorance here, how does one get a crit threat of 17-20? I'm not aware of any statted weapon with that range nor a way to increase an 18-20 to 17-20 within the pathfinder rules.
Hence the "Lets say there was a unique weapon that could crit on a roll of 17-20" part of the question, it's theoretical for the purpose of discussion :)
Here's a thought: if you're gonna crit that much, maybe take Butterfly's Sting and let someone else enjoy those crits instead?
Swashbucklers would regain panache lightning fast
Barbarian with daemon totem would impose so many negative levels that your enemies regress to neandertals
I think we've reached a consensus ...
what classes / archetypes would get the most out of critting that often, and why?
... All of them.
Third party content again, but path of war allows stalkers to get 13-20.
15-20 is normal, they can grab a stalker art to get a +1 bonus to the threat range (not multipled with keen). They can also grab a teamwork feat (that requires another stalker) that when flanking, increase threat bt another +1.
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Just about any class will benefit from that like everyone else mentioned, barbarians love cries because it multiplies that rage STR and power attack for such nice damage. Really only full casters like wizards and sorcerers won't care much. Rage domain Goliath Druids will make good use of it though. What are the other stats of this weapon? Light, one handed, two handed, ranged? What's the damage die?
Medium can get some of the highest base damage bonuses in the game, especially a halfling medium taking risky striker along with power attack and the halfling favored class bonus to apply it to the champion spirit.
Any high-accuracy class with said weapon in one hand, Butterfly Sting, and a light pick in the other hand. Slayer maybe.
At the risk of showing off my ignorance here, how does one get a crit threat of 17-20? I'm not aware of any statted weapon with that range nor a way to increase an 18-20 to 17-20 within the pathfinder rules.Hence the "Lets say there was a unique weapon that could crit on a roll of 17-20" part of the question, it's theoretical for the purpose of discussion :)
17-20 seems pretty common at higher lvls - enemies seem to have improved crit a lot, so any 19-20->17-20
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17-20 seems pretty common at higher lvls - enemies seem to have improved crit a lot, so any 19-20->17-20At the risk of showing off my ignorance here, how does one get a crit threat of 17-20? I'm not aware of any statted weapon with that range nor a way to increase an 18-20 to 17-20 within the pathfinder rules.Hence the "Lets say there was a unique weapon that could crit on a roll of 17-20" part of the question, it's theoretical for the purpose of discussion :)
I believe they were referring to a weapon with base crit range 17-20, hence the 13-20 in the OP
Anyone remember that 3.5 wild Disciple of Dispater dervish build that TWF maces for something like 7-20 range?