I'm curious, wintersrage. Is your opinion on "dealing with DMs" any different now than when you made the OP?
I have no problem with vent threads, but dressing them up as requests for advice if you're really just looking for affirmation seems counter productive, to me.
Yes I will not be asking any GM's in the future of the power level of the group and the campaign, if the game is going to be high powered i will make a high powered character otherwise i will build a less powerful character.
I presume you meant to say you WILL be asking the power level?
yes i miss typed, sorry for that.
No problem, of course. I just wanted to be sure (you and I play very differently, so I figured it was worth checking!) :p
When i get a concept in mind i really want to play that character.
If i had realized fetchling had something close to what i wanted to play i would have took them, but that doesn't change my concept had dvati as a big part of the RP side of my character, as people find it weird when 2 people who look identical are finishing each others sentences, are great singers, and work very well together, better then they have seen any other 2 siblings have in the past.
I try and build my characters on their RP elements and the shadow creature dvati was my RP choice. I though a shadow creature dvati would make for a good RP character, i wasn't really thinking of it from a power point of view.
Kind of. I mean, I take your point that the motivation was the background/story of the character. However, you were thinking of the power level a bit (since you warned the DM it was overpowered).
From my perspective, if I thought something was overpowered I wouldn't take it - even if the DM said it was okay. More broadly, I think it's worth sticking to more mainstream options until you know the style of the group and specifically the DM.
It is just that the GM was allowing the other players to do things, like casting 2 spells around without having quicken meta-magic, and these were not immediate action spells, making to attacks after a charge because they have 2 weapons and have two-weapon fighting, allowing them to take a monster race with player stats but the race still have racial Hit dice, a 2 LA race with 6 racial hit dice, and we where level 10 and they still have 8 class levels, saying the person was only level 10.
a character with a level adjustment of 2 and 8 class levels is a 10th level character
I am away of that but he had 6 racial hit dice as well.
racial hit die mean jack all with determaning character level if a template gives 20 racial hit die but its only a +5 template your fighter 5 with the template is a level 10 character
If i had realized fetchling had something close to what i wanted to play i would have took them, but that doesn't change my concept had dvati as a big part of the RP side of my character, as people find it weird when 2 people who look identical are finishing each others sentences, are great singers, and work very well together, better then they have seen any other 2 siblings have in the past.
There's no right/wrong with aesthetics and creativity, of course. Nonetheless, this really sounds like two characters to me. I think if it were me, I'd have tried to play this with another PC rather than gone hunting for a race-which-is-one-person-in-two-bodies.
I try and build my characters on their RP elements and the shadow creature dvati was my RP choice. I though a shadow creature dvati would make for a good RP character, i wasn't really thinking of it from a power point of view.
Kind of. I mean, I take your point that the motivation was the background/story of the character. However, you were thinking of the power level a bit (since you warned the DM it was overpowered).
From my perspective, if I thought something was overpowered I wouldn't take it - even if the DM said it was okay. More broadly, I think it's worth sticking to more mainstream options until you know the style of the group and specifically the DM.
Well yes as i wanted to make sure that the GM knew how powerful my character was going to be even if the choices were for their rp elements.
If i had realized fetchling had something close to what i wanted to play i would have took them, but that doesn't change my concept had dvati as a big part of the RP side of my character, as people find it weird when 2 people who look identical are finishing each others sentences, are great singers, and work very well together, better then they have seen any other 2 siblings have in the past.
There's no right/wrong with aesthetics and creativity, of course. Nonetheless, this really sounds like two characters to me. I think if it were me, I'd have tried to play this with another PC rather than gone hunting for a race-which-is-one-person-in-two-bodies.
dvati are 2 bodies 1 soul and 1 character.
Dvati:
Twins: A "single" dvati is a pair of creatures that
shares a soul. A dvati twin can no more exist
without his soul partner than a human can live
without a heart. The unique, spiritual link between
a dvati pair has several important implications.
A dvati character is actually two separate dvati
twins who share a soul. These two creatures move
and act separately but have a number of restrictions
based on their connection.
The dvati twins gain levels and progress in
the same manner as a single creature of another
race. The twins share a class and both have
the same level. The twins do not progress at a
different rate, nor do they split XP between them.
Rather, each has an identical XP total. When dividing
XP among characters, a dvati counts as one PC.
For example: A 1st-level dvati fighter consists
of a pair of twins, each with the same set of fighter
abilities. You select feats, skills, and other abilities for
both twins. Do not choose them separately. If one
twin has Power Attack, both twins gain access to it.
In essence, you build one character who occupies two
bodies, regardless of the class chosen.
When a dvati casts a spell, both members
of the pair must focus and concentrate on it.
Both twins must simultaneously take the actions
required to cast a spell, although only one must
supply material components. One twin cannot cast
a spell while the other attacks, for example. A lone dvati can cast spells if his twin takes no actions
while he casts. Any other sort of action, including
a free one, makes it impossible for the casting twin
to focus and use his spell. If the dvati tries to use a
spell anyway, his casting attempt is ruined and the
spell is lost.
The dvati twins divide their hit points between
them. Each twin in the pair gains half the hit points
from his Hit Die roll, although both gain the full
benefits of his Constitution modifier. Do not roll
Hit Dice separately for each dvati twin. For example,
a 1st-level dvati fighter with a 13 Constitution gains
6 hit points for each twin ([10 hp / 2] +1 = 6). If an
area of effect spell catches both twins, they save
separately and take damage as normal.
A pair of dvati twins shares all class abilities
and spells slots between them. For example, a 3rdlevel
dvati bard can use bardic music three times per
day in total, not three times for each twin. Personal
spells (those with a target of "you") affect both twins
as long as they are on the same plane. Otherwise,
they affect only the caster. Other spells function as
normal. For example, a touch spell normally affects
only the specific twin touched. The spell conductor
ability (detailed below) allows the dvati to share
some spells.
A mind-affecting ability or spell that affects
one twin affects both of them. If a single such ability
targets both twins at the same time, they make only
one save between them. Dvati twins share one mind.
The dvati twins have an innate, powerful psychic
connection. They can communicate via telepathy
at an unlimited range and across the planes. A
twin cannot perceive what his other sees, hears, or
otherwise perceives. As a full-round action, a dvati
twin can determine his twin's current hit points and
mental state. If one twin is on the same plane as
the other, the twin learns the relative direction and
distance to his partner.
If one dvati twin dies, the other slowly sickens
and perishes. Each day that passes after a dvati
twin dies, the surviving twin takes ld4 points of
Constitution and Wisdom damage and takes a
cumulative -1 penalty on attack rolls, skill checks,
and saving throws. The ability damage and penalties
remain (and cannot be healed or removed) until the
living twin dies or his soulmate returns to life (at
which time they immediately disappear). Most dvati
prefer to commit ritual suicide if one twin dies
without hope of return, as the pain of losing the
close bond drives a dvati to the brink of madness.
In most cases, an effect that applies to one twin
fails to spill over to the other. If a medusa turns one
twin to stone, the other remains healthy. Negative
levels are an exception to this rule. If one dvati twin
suffers a negative level, both of them incur its effects.
The dvati makes one save to remove the negative
level. Level loss caused by returning to life via a raise
dead or similar spell affects both dvati twins.
If i had realized fetchling had something close to what i wanted to play i would have took them, but that doesn't change my concept had dvati as a big part of the RP side of my character, as people find it weird when 2 people who look identical are finishing each others sentences, are great singers, and work very well together, better then they have seen any other 2 siblings have in the past.
There's no right/wrong with aesthetics and creativity, of course. Nonetheless, this really sounds like two characters to me. I think if it were me, I'd have tried to play this with another PC rather than gone hunting for a race-which-is-one-person-in-two-bodies.
dvati are 2 bodies 1 soul and 1 character.
** spoiler omitted **...
Yeah, that's what I meant. I was referring to this:
"a big part of the RP side of my character, as people find it weird when 2 people who look identical are finishing each others sentences, are great singers, and work very well together, better then they have seen any other 2 siblings have in the past."
If I had that image, I'd be thinking of two very close people, not one soul split between two bodies. (My tastes are pretty vanilla though - I generally play fighters and pretty much always play humans).
It was just a passing comment, not meant as a judgement.
It is just that the GM was allowing the other players to do things, like casting 2 spells around without having quicken meta-magic, and these were not immediate action spells, making to attacks after a charge because they have 2 weapons and have two-weapon fighting, allowing them to take a monster race with player stats but the race still have racial Hit dice, a 2 LA race with 6 racial hit dice, and we where level 10 and they still have 8 class levels, saying the person was only level 10.
a character with a level adjustment of 2 and 8 class levels is a 10th level character
I am away of that but he had 6 racial hit dice as well.
Then you are probably also aware that most characters that take level adjustment and racial hot dice end up weaker then others because of the flawed system, that unfortunately does not apply to templates which only sometimes have a level adjustments
Yes i am aware of that. That is why i try and stay away from them, unless my concept requires a level adjustment race or template, if i can get away with my character concept with out a level adjustment or template, i will do that.
If i had realized fetchling had something close to what i wanted to play i would have took them, but that doesn't change my concept had dvati as a big part of the RP side of my character, as people find it weird when 2 people who look identical are finishing each others sentences, are great singers, and work very well together, better then they have seen any other 2 siblings have in the past.
There's no right/wrong with aesthetics and creativity, of course. Nonetheless, this really sounds like two characters to me. I think if it were me, I'd have tried to play this with another PC rather than gone hunting for a race-which-is-one-person-in-two-bodies.
dvati are 2 bodies 1 soul and 1 character.
** spoiler omitted **...
Yeah, that's what I meant. I was referring to this:
"a big part of the RP side of my character, as people find it weird when 2 people who look identical are finishing each others sentences, are great singers, and work very well together, better then they have seen any other 2 siblings have in the past."
If I had that image, I'd be thinking of two very close people, not one soul split between two bodies. (My tastes are pretty vanilla though - I generally play fighters and pretty much always play humans).
It was just a passing comment, not meant as a judgement.
Well i could have just asked my gm to allow me to play 2 human characters with limited telepathy, they can only talk to each other, via their limited telepathy.
But i like playing weird races, like dvati, or vanara, or strix, or Kasatha, i like weird races for the rp element they impart to the game.
Winter I have read rules and articles from a variety of games regarding being the GM. Pallidium Books actually did several articles regarding being a GM. Most of the articles were meant for their Rifts game system. In Rifts there is a huge difference in power between races and classes. They brought up over and over again how one character always dominated the game because he was the walking tank of the group in power armor. The articles all said the same thing. If you the GM don't like don't allow it. It went on to say that a GM does have certain responsibilities to the players but if he is not having fun he should change things until everyone is having fun. So yes a GM should do what he can to make the campaign fun but not at the expense of his happiness or sanity.
I've quit GMing because of problem players doing everything in their power to wreck a campaign. They were doing it because it was fun. The campaign didn't matter nothing matter except making my life miserable. A What is worse is they didn't think they were doing anything wrong and kept asking me to be GM so they could do it again.
Winter I have read rules and articles from a variety of games regarding being the GM. Pallidium Books actually did several articles regarding being a GM. Most of the articles were meant for their Rifts game system. In Rifts there is a huge difference in power between races and classes. They brought up over and over again how one character always dominated the game because he was the walking tank of the group in power armor. The articles all said the same thing. If you the GM don't like don't allow it. It went on to say that a GM does have certain responsibilities to the players but if he is not having fun he should change things until everyone is having fun. So yes a GM should do what he can to make the campaign fun but not at the expense of his happiness or sanity.
I've quit GMing because of problem players doing everything in their power to wreck a campaign. They were doing it because it was fun. The campaign didn't matter nothing matter except making my life miserable. A What is worse is they didn't think they were doing anything wrong and kept asking me to be GM so they could do it again.
I agree the GM has some leeway in regards to the rules, but the rules are rules for a reason, and when they are being change with no notice to the players, and they do something with the prier knowledge of a racial ability they have, but now that racial ability doesn't work, or a feat they have don't work the way it was written, or a spell not doing what you though the spell was supposed to do based on its description, then that is just the GM being a jerk, by not notifying his players of changes.
A GM if he is going to change rules, needs to notify his players so they can make player and character decisions based on those changes.
What my GM did would be like if you went to Numeria or what ever it is called, and bough a ROCKET LAUNCHER, and the GM made a change to it so it only had 1 range increment of 30ft, max range of 30ft, and no save, so every-time you fired it you are inside the range, just because he though it was to powerful, in combination with your class archtype ability of
Covet Charge:
Covet Charge (Ex): At 1st level, a techslinger can spend 1 grit point to use 1 charge fewer than normal when firing a technological weapon (minimum 0), as long as the weapon has enough charges remaining to be fired at least once. This deed replaces deadeye.
I know the feat and weapon neither apply. Rocket launchers don't use charges read the description. So your point is invalid. However GMs should inform players when they are considering or have changed rules, I agree. That is actually where house rules come in. My old group had a few house rules that disregarded book rules for a variety of reasons. Most times it was to have fun. We changed a couple because of game balance for everyone. In Rifts you could empty half a clip into an enemy doing times five damage. Average pistol did 3d6. Now PCs usually emptied clips into the bad guys a lot. If I or another GM did that to PCs we'd have a lot of TPKs. So we made a ruling pistols can only burst three rounds for slightly less damage. It made fights last longer on both sides. What is interesting is Pallidium when they revamped their combat rules made that an official rule.
A bad GM changes things without any reason or announcement. He declares he is god beware his wrath or whatever. GMs like that don't last long. Regarding rules and GMs is this as well. I as a GM as well as other GMs have said I'm changing or disregarding or even more boldly say I'm cheating. Most times why is for the campaign. Most players if the adventure was fun go okay we get that was cool. Some players refuse to let that go by. They pick up the book or whatever and go like a petulant child and say. "No, you can't do that that isn't allowed. I don't care why you are doing it. I don't care that it makes for a great adventure. I'm a rules lawyer and you can't break the rules." Now those players by the way are the first to usually break the rules then claim they only bent them when everyone else can plainly see they are in fact cheating. Those same players would rather grind an adventure to a halt rather then wait until the adventure ends for the day to discuss like a calm rational person.
I know the feat and weapon neither apply. Rocket launchers don't use charges read the description. So your point is invalid. However GMs should inform players when they are considering or have changed rules, I agree. That is actually where house rules come in. My old group had a few house rules that disregarded book rules for a variety of reasons. Most times it was to have fun. We changed a couple because of game balance for everyone. In Rifts you could empty half a clip into an enemy doing times five damage. Average pistol did 3d6. Now PCs usually emptied clips into the bad guys a lot. If I or another GM did that to PCs we'd have a lot of TPKs. So we made a ruling pistols can only burst three rounds for slightly less damage. It made fights last longer on both sides. What is interesting is Pallidium when they revamped their combat rules made that an official rule.
A newly created rocket launcher contains its entire load of rockets and energy charges.
But lets change my example to a VORTEX GUN then, he changes it to an burst from your square including your square.
My point is and i know you pointed it out, is that GM's who change things need o give some heads up to players especially if the changes effect their character, these GM need to be upfront about changes that effect a player.
These types of changes that ends up making one of the things the character was going to use to try and survive an encounter, that he was going to initiate, because the city's political power have been taken over by Doppelganger and those that aren't doppelganger's are working with them.
I was going to attack the enemy hopefully the person i was attacking was a doppelganger as i had a weapon that would case someone no in their true form to revert their shape if they failed their save of a dc 15 i think it was.
But i missed and was not able to stealth as he said the fire will not let you stealth because it interferes with shadow blend, when even in pathfinder a fire at night time would not stop shadow blend as a bonfire does not create bright light, of in 3.5 the effects of daylight spell, but with out prior notice, i made a foolish decision that was not foolish with my abilities as i knew them to be, but was foolish with the changes he made.
...I feel like now would be a good time to quote this.
Quote:
The Most Important Rule
The rules presented are here to help you breathe life into your characters and the world they explore. While they are designed to make your game easy and exciting, you might find that some of them do not suit the style of play that your gaming group enjoys. Remember that these rules are yours. You can change them to fit your needs. Most Game Masters have a number of "house rules" that they use in their games. The Game Master and players should always discuss any rules changes to make sure that everyone understands how the game will be played. Although the Game Master is the final arbiter of the rules, the Pathfinder RPG is a shared experience, and all of the players should contribute their thoughts when the rules are in doubt.
...I feel like now would be a good time to quote this.
Quote:
The Most Important Rule
The rules presented are here to help you breathe life into your characters and the world they explore. While they are designed to make your game easy and exciting, you might find that some of them do not suit the style of play that your gaming group enjoys. Remember that these rules are yours. You can change them to fit your needs. Most Game Masters have a number of "house rules" that they use in their games. The Game Master and players should always discuss any rules changes to make sure that everyone understands how the game will be played. Although the Game Master is the final arbiter of the rules, the Pathfinder RPG is a shared experience, and all of the players should contribute their thoughts when the rules are in doubt.
I completely agree with that, but some GM's will say if you don't like how i GM there is the door, and that to me is a s&%~y GM. especially if they don't listen to their players.
I know a gm who gave a vampire the aquatic subtype, which makes it immune to the weakness to water, had its heart removed using a magic item that the heart is placed into, to allow the vampire to function without its heart as long as the heart is in the magic item, placed into a portable hole, making it immune to being staked, also had a ring that absorbed sunlight that touched the creature wearing it, making it immune to sunlight weakness.
After he sprung this vampire on us said after we said it is unfair, there is no way for us to kill it, even if we found its coffin, that he is the GM and he can do what ever he wants and if you don't like it you don't have to site at his table.
When we pointed out that the vampire was unkillable he said you don't need to point out the rules to him and if you do he will take it as you being a rules lawyer and will send a monster in game after you for doing it, each time you do it.
I completely agree with that, but some GM's will say if you don't like how i GM there is the door, and that to me is a s$+$y GM. especially if they don't listen to their players.
I know a gm who gave a vampire the aquatic subtype, which makes it immune to the weakness to water, had its heart removed using a magic item that the heart is placed into, to allow the vampire to function without its heart as long as the heart is in the magic item, placed into a portable hole, making it immune to being staked, also had a ring that absorbed sunlight that touched the creature wearing it, making it immune to sunlight weakness.
After he sprung this vampire on us said after we said it is unfair, there is no way for us to kill it, even if we found its coffin, that he is the GM and he can do what ever he wants and if you don't like it you don't have to site at his table.
When we pointed out that the vampire was unkillable he said you don't need to point out the rules to him and if you do he will take it as you being a rules lawyer and will send a monster in game after you for doing it, each time you do it.
A GM who metagames his own tools to "punish" his players in-game is a Bad GM. He is an immature one at best. A child who would be God. It's actually *not* in a GM's job purvue to take any action against his players out of game through attacking their characters in-game. it's Metagaming at it's worst when you get right down to it.
Best advise I can give is to not game with him moving forward. Find a GM who corroborates with his PCs.
...I feel like now would be a good time to quote this.
Quote:
The Most Important Rule
The rules presented are here to help you breathe life into your characters and the world they explore. While they are designed to make your game easy and exciting, you might find that some of them do not suit the style of play that your gaming group enjoys. Remember that these rules are yours. You can change them to fit your needs. Most Game Masters have a number of "house rules" that they use in their games. The Game Master and players should always discuss any rules changes to make sure that everyone understands how the game will be played. Although the Game Master is the final arbiter of the rules, the Pathfinder RPG is a shared experience, and all of the players should contribute their thoughts when the rules are in doubt.
I completely agree with that, but some GM's will say if you don't like how i GM there is the door, and that to me is a s*!@y GM. especially if they don't listen to their players.
I know a gm who gave a vampire the aquatic subtype, which makes it immune to the weakness to water, had its heart removed using a magic item that the heart is placed into, to allow the vampire to function without its heart as long as the heart is in the magic item, placed into a portable hole, making it immune to being staked, also had a ring that absorbed sunlight that touched the creature wearing it, making it immune to sunlight weakness.
After he sprung this vampire on us said after we said it is unfair, there is no way for us to kill it, even if we found its coffin, that he is the GM and he can do what ever he wants and if you don't like it you don't have to site at his table.
When we pointed out that the vampire was unkillable he said you don't need to point out the rules to him and if you do he will take it as you being a rules lawyer and will send a monster in game after you for doing it, each time you do it.
In the DMs defence, that's not an unkilllable monste. It's just a really hard to kill monster. He's effectively made it a liche like vampire.
Destroy the ring. Then track down and destroy the heart in the jar. Both of those are achievable.
Then the Vampire is screwed.
As for him being "don't pull rules on me", I agree that's a bit over the top. However, you could embrace what he's done and find in game ways to track down and kill this thing.
After all, is it your characters who know all the vampire weaknessss or is it the players. Because bringing player knowledge into th game in order to meta the boss creature into extinction is just as big a dick move as you are claiming the DM is making.
In fact, how do you even know this is a Vampire? Because by all the descriptions your characters would have heard, it would be a creature that drinks blood, but has no heart and operates in both water and sunlight. Three of those bits of information should immediately tell your characters it is not a vampire at all. Now your characters are struggling to find out what it is and how to kill it.
Try using that tac instead of complaining they broke the rules. If he continues to stifle every thing your characters do to find this thing and destroy it, then you can start calling shenanigans.
One piece of advice I was given by a plumber was if you're going to open a valve all the way, always turn it back a quarter turn afterwards. The same practice applies to character building I believe. In this case Winter, it sounds like you kept turning until the handle shot off and smacked the DM in the eye!
To be honest, based on your interactions on the boards winter, I'm not 100% confident in your one sided descriptions of the GMs behavior. You don't seem to listen and repeat the same points an uncomfortable number of times. It is pointless therefore trying to pass judgement or vindication of your views.
You have already told us you've quit the game. So the point is fairly moot.
For future games I would suggest you ask the following questions when you find a new group.
1. Is this a game where me playing the kind of characters I create, the way I play them, going to Increase the group's enjoyment (particular the DM's). Or is it going to reduce it?
2. If it's the former and you're lucky enough to find a group of likeminded people then problem solved. Hold on to them!
3. If it is the latter (and believe me, based on what I have seen on here, your characters sound like a royal pain in the ass to me) then work out how can you adjust your behavior to the point where your characters increase the fun.
DMs aren't running a charity (usually) to help you get your rocks off. They're playing the game for their enjoyment too. I guarantee one thing, campaigns that aren't fun end prematurely every time - or they probably should.
NB. just for the record. As a DM and Player I find it really annoying when a player claims they built a particular broken combination because it was 'in character'. You have control of character creation so claiming you were just following a reasonable course based on your race, attitude and background is a cop out when you chose both race, attitude and background.
If there's a crummy GM saying my way or the high way either 1) people like his way enough to have him not worry about players or 2) people enjoy playing a game that is no fun for them with a GM they don't like and thus stay.
Cause otherwise the players should take the highway and then when he has no players he may decide that getting player feedback and being fair are worth trying.
Sending monsters after you because you are a rules lawyer. He is the GM he can do whatever he wants. Yeah he is screaming loudly to the world I am a GM fear me. He'd found himself out of my old group told bluntly get lost. Stuff like that loses players and friends faster then anything.
The articles I mentioned about being a GM all pretty much summed it up with this. Treat others with respect as you'd like to be treated. I have had GMs who don't treat me resembling respect. I did a few times he was GMing our old group a couple of times. During those times my character found himself screwed over not because I did anything wrong. He simply didn't like me and took it out on my character. Did this in three campaigns. My old group saw this and all of them decided they didn't need a guy like that in the group and he was a general dick to start.
Being a GM is hard work. I know I've been doing it a while. I have bent and broken rules never out of spite or malice though. I have had players much to my disappointment do things I never ever imagined. Having learned a few things over the year I have in most cases adapted and moved along. Sometimes players push your buttons and you snap. Not mature but it happens. You spent a few days designing a dungeon to have a couple of players decide no they'd rather destroy a bar, have sex with the local women and challenge anyone to stop them.
I guess the best thing to remember is that everyone at the table is there to have fun.
The GM and the players all need to decide before hand what they want out of the game.
Too often I've seen a session devolve into "us vs him" mentality, either from the players action or the GM actions.
Pathfinder as a system is particularly wired to trigger this sort of game play unfortunately. The very nature of its modularity leads to players trying to "build" the best combination of I can't be beat no matter what.
This then leads to one of two situations
1) the game becomes a roflstomp of all the enemies with no challenge.
2) the GM ups the ante to provide challenge. This one turns into rocket tag.
A number of the examples I see here are rocket tag gaming.
The GM shouldn't be out to kill characters. They need to provide a challenge that keeps players happy but also provides enjoyment for the,selves.
In other words, this is not a competitive game, it's a co operative game between all the people at the table.
I dropped from the rules intensive Pathfinder to the rules lite 5 ed.
I run Paizo adventure paths and convert over. By removing all the "rules for every situation" my players stopped worrying about if it could or couldn't do that thing that just happened, and began to plan for how to deal with it instead.
All of us have been much happier gamers ever since.
I guess the best thing to remember is that everyone at the table is there to have fun.
The GM and the players all need to decide before hand what they want out of the game.
Too often I've seen a session devolve into "us vs him" mentality, either from the players action or the GM actions.
Pathfinder as a system is particularly wired to trigger this sort of game play unfortunately. The very nature of its modularity leads to players trying to "build" the best combination of I can't be beat no matter what.
This then leads to one of two situations
1) the game becomes a roflstomp of all the enemies with no challenge.
2) the GM ups the ante to provide challenge. This one turns into rocket tag.
A number of the examples I see here are rocket tag gaming.
The GM shouldn't be out to kill characters. They need to provide a challenge that keeps players happy but also provides enjoyment for the,selves.
In other words, this is not a competitive game, it's a co operative game between all the people at the table.
I dropped from the rules intensive Pathfinder to the rules lite 5 ed.
I run Paizo adventure paths and convert over. By removing all the "rules for every situation" my players stopped worrying about if it could or couldn't do that thing that just happened, and began to plan for how to deal with it instead.
All of us have been much happier gamers ever since.
I agree, everybody needs to be upfront with each other about what they want out of the game, be it the gm or the players, and agree that the choices they made will be under scrunity and if changes need to happen for balancing, then they will be made with everybody being being effected will be notified of the changes, so they won't be left in the dark till it it to late.
