So one of the things that really annoys about Pathfinder is the inability of martials to heal themselves outside of Paladins, but I'm gonna put this out here in case anyone knows of something I've missed.
I'm currently playing an Avenger Vigilante who over the course of the campaign I have wanted to make more survivable. We're using Spheres rules so I have an ability that lets me convert some of the damage I take into nonlethal, which is cool because it doubles the effect of healing on me but is less cool because other than the occasional cure from one of our backliners I don't have any way of restoring HP.
I'm wondering if there's a feat somewhere I can take that would allow me to self-heal. If there's a third party option you know of feel free to suggest it, obviously the gates are already open on that so I can try to pitch it to my GM. It's an E6 campaign so it has to be something available in the low levels.
Rangers can do a little bit of healing (self and otherwise) with their spellcasting, although with 4/9 spellcasting it's not great -- this gets better for the hybrid martial + divine spellcasting Hunter (6/9 spellcasting). So can hybrid martial + arcane spellcasters(*) who can get their hands on Infernal Healing or Celestial Healing (the latter being not very good; strangely only the latter is on the Bloodrager spell list).
(*)Bloodrager, Magus, and Child of Acavna and Amaznen Fighter, although the latter is a REALLY BAD archetype -- play Myrmidarch Magus instead.
There's Use Magic Device and a wand of course, or an Aegis of Recovery or similar. The Curative Mastery feat allows you to use any magic item with a conjuration spell required for its creation to cast a Cure spell.
Are you sure infernal healing isn't on the bloodrager list? I thought Advanced Class Origins added it to their list.
Weird -- if I go to the actual Bloodrager list it's there, but if I go to the spell description (same one the spell list links to), it isn't. Just checked Archives of Nethys, and it doesn't have this problem.
Will have to remember to check the actual spell lists as well as searching for the spells themselves (come to think of it, I have seen some other spell descriptions missing some classes that they are available to, although usually for Occult classes).
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Are you sure infernal healing isn't on the bloodrager list? I thought Advanced Class Origins added it to their list.Weird -- if I go to the actual Bloodrager list it's there, but if I go to the spell description (same one the spell list links to), it isn't. Just checked Archives of Nethys, and it doesn't have this problem.
Will have to remember to check the actual spell lists as well as searching for the spells themselves (come to think of it, I have seen some other spell descriptions missing some classes that they are available to, although usually for Occult classes).
Incidentally, if you want to find out which spell list a spell is on, Archives of Nethys is almost always your better bet. There's some things that d20pfsrd does better and vice versa, but for spell lists, Archives is consistently the most accurate in my experience; I tend to use it when working on a book with new spells when I want to compare to previous spells and see which classes have similar spells and other tasks that depend on both speed and accuracy in that regard.
One problem I should have mentioned is that this particular campaign is EXTREMELY low magic; there aren't even any cure wands available so I can certainly not expect anything I can use to proc Curative Mastery.
Yeah, it sounds like my options are exactly as limited as I thought. My character has 13 CON so Combat Vigor is just Godless Healing but worse, and Godless Healing is pretty bad. The Healer's Handbook was a g%$~+@n mistake.
A spell eater Bloodrager has some self healing abilities. Blood of Life (Su) and Spell Eating (Su) are both Su abilities, thus magical in nature. Faster Healer feat can increase it a little bit to be functional.
wait your playing a frontliner with only a 13 con? are you planning on becoming undead at some point?One problem I should have mentioned is that this particular campaign is EXTREMELY low magic; there aren't even any cure wands available so I can certainly not expect anything I can use to proc Curative Mastery.
Yeah, it sounds like my options are exactly as limited as I thought. My character has 13 CON so Combat Vigor is just Godless Healing but worse, and Godless Healing is pretty bad. The Healer's Handbook was a g%~*$&n mistake.
13 Constitution is plenty for a frontliner; he could even skate by with a 12, since there's little mechanical difference between a 12 and a 13 (other than maybe taking a level up point to it to round it off). Especially if they're D10 Hit Dice.
The only characters who need more than 14 Constitution are Kineticists, Scarred Witch Doctors (who are garbage now), and Barbarians (and even then, not that much, and only for a single feat). For anyone else, it's just icing on the cake.
Because if you put more than 14 Constitution (which for D10 Hit Dice is a bit excessive in my opinion), you have to cut into your primary attributes, which isn't particularly worth it for a lot of players.
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To those suggesting classes, the OP's playing a vigilante already. d8 HD, 13 Con - you see the problem.
If 3rd party stuff might work there's Dreamscarred Press's Path of War. The Martial Training feats allow maneuvers of level 1 & 2 from one discipline (or more, but you're playing E6). The Silver Crane discipline includes some defences and a level 1 maneuver which heals 1d6 HP if you hit an enemy, effectively once per encounter.
Martial healing you say? Well, look no further than the drunken master sensei monk! Effectively (Limited only buy your fort save and available money for cheap booze) Infinite martial healing. No slouch in combat either really, drunken fist is a nice little "one punch" maneuver and the sensei gets bardic performance soooo.
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a frontliner typically has a 16-20 in con off the bat with a 16-20 in str and a 14+ into dex and wiswait your playing a frontliner with only a 13 con? are you planning on becoming undead at some point?One problem I should have mentioned is that this particular campaign is EXTREMELY low magic; there aren't even any cure wands available so I can certainly not expect anything I can use to proc Curative Mastery.
Yeah, it sounds like my options are exactly as limited as I thought. My character has 13 CON so Combat Vigor is just Godless Healing but worse, and Godless Healing is pretty bad. The Healer's Handbook was a g%~*$&n mistake.
13 Constitution is plenty for a frontliner; he could even skate by with a 12, since there's little mechanical difference between a 12 and a 13 (other than maybe taking a level up point to it to round it off). Especially if they're D10 Hit Dice.
The only characters who need more than 14 Constitution are Kineticists, Scarred Witch Doctors (who are garbage now), and Barbarians (and even then, not that much, and only for a single feat). For anyone else, it's just icing on the cake.
Because if you put more than 14 Constitution (which for D10 Hit Dice is a bit excessive in my opinion), you have to cut into your primary attributes, which isn't particularly worth it for a lot of players.
Do you always play with 30 point buy? 0.o
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a frontliner typically has a 16-20 in con off the bat with a 16-20 in str and a 14+ into dex and wiswait your playing a frontliner with only a 13 con? are you planning on becoming undead at some point?One problem I should have mentioned is that this particular campaign is EXTREMELY low magic; there aren't even any cure wands available so I can certainly not expect anything I can use to proc Curative Mastery.
Yeah, it sounds like my options are exactly as limited as I thought. My character has 13 CON so Combat Vigor is just Godless Healing but worse, and Godless Healing is pretty bad. The Healer's Handbook was a g%~*$&n mistake.
13 Constitution is plenty for a frontliner; he could even skate by with a 12, since there's little mechanical difference between a 12 and a 13 (other than maybe taking a level up point to it to round it off). Especially if they're D10 Hit Dice.
The only characters who need more than 14 Constitution are Kineticists, Scarred Witch Doctors (who are garbage now), and Barbarians (and even then, not that much, and only for a single feat). For anyone else, it's just icing on the cake.
Because if you put more than 14 Constitution (which for D10 Hit Dice is a bit excessive in my opinion), you have to cut into your primary attributes, which isn't particularly worth it for a lot of players.
In your games, they have that many stats.
Your games are widely different than what other people normally play, though. Even a 25 point buy, which is usually the strongest "legal" power level for a given game (PFS assumes 20 point buy), does not have that many powerful stats, post-racial. The 20 and 16? Possibly. But there's no way they won't have any 8's or 7's in the mix if they try that.
It's a lot like what they would teach using averages in schools; outliers (such as the type of game that you play) aren't exactly an accurate demonstration of a typical game.
Now, I may be undervaluing Constitution slightly, but 16-20 Constitution is only valued for Barbarians, Kineticists, and pre-errata Scarred Witch Doctors.
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Without dumping on a 20pt buy you can have a 14 in STR, DEX, CON, and WIS before racials.
Most racials offer a +2 to two sets (one mental and one physical, usually), and a -2 to another related score.
So yes, they can have a 16 Strength and Wisdom, or a 16 Constitution and Intelligence, but they will have another stat (that they may or may not have boosted) reduced.
So, suggesting that a 20+16+14+14, even post-racial, is possible, with the most flexible of point buys (25), and without dumpstats, is just ludicrous.
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Even as a variable of minimum values, it's a stretch.
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pfs is also a super low powerd game type 25 points should honestly be the bare minimum as any less your pretty much playing commoners with pc class levels
In your games, they have that many stats.
Your games are widely different than what other people normally play, though. Even a 25 point buy, which is usually the strongest "legal" power level for a given game (PFS assumes 20 point buy), does not have that many powerful stats, post-racial. The 20 and 16? Possibly. But there's no way they won't have any 8's or 7's in the mix if they try that.
It's a lot like what they would teach using averages in schools; outliers (such as the type of game that you play) aren't exactly an accurate demonstration of a typical game.
Now, I may be undervaluing Constitution slightly, but 16-20 Constitution is only valued for Barbarians, Kineticists, and pre-errata Scarred Witch Doctors.
PFS is low powered in that optimization isn't that much of an issue, and that's how the game in general is created; optimization isn't the most important thing except at the table you play at.
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pfs is also a super low powerd game type 25 points should honestly be the bare minimum as any less your pretty much playing commoners with pc class levels
In your games, they have that many stats.
Your games are widely different than what other people normally play, though. Even a 25 point buy, which is usually the strongest "legal" power level for a given game (PFS assumes 20 point buy), does not have that many powerful stats, post-racial. The 20 and 16? Possibly. But there's no way they won't have any 8's or 7's in the mix if they try that.
It's a lot like what they would teach using averages in schools; outliers (such as the type of game that you play) aren't exactly an accurate demonstration of a typical game.
Now, I may be undervaluing Constitution slightly, but 16-20 Constitution is only valued for Barbarians, Kineticists, and pre-errata Scarred Witch Doctors.
ummm, commoners are built on a 3 point buy or lower. a 20 point buy is 6X as powerful. How is that commoners with class levels?
having stats of a hero/villan and optomization are not the same thingPFS is low powered in that optimization isn't that much of an issue, and that's how the game in general is created; optimization isn't the most important thing except at the table you play at.pfs is also a super low powerd game type 25 points should honestly be the bare minimum as any less your pretty much playing commoners with pc class levels
In your games, they have that many stats.
Your games are widely different than what other people normally play, though. Even a 25 point buy, which is usually the strongest "legal" power level for a given game (PFS assumes 20 point buy), does not have that many powerful stats, post-racial. The 20 and 16? Possibly. But there's no way they won't have any 8's or 7's in the mix if they try that.
It's a lot like what they would teach using averages in schools; outliers (such as the type of game that you play) aren't exactly an accurate demonstration of a typical game.
Now, I may be undervaluing Constitution slightly, but 16-20 Constitution is only valued for Barbarians, Kineticists, and pre-errata Scarred Witch Doctors.
No, but they're synonymous with themselves.
A player would view somebody who takes their point buy and turns themselves into "Mr. Roundabout" by averaging all of their stats as neither villain nor hero, just a major mistake.
Similarly, a person who is truly heroic or villainous should have their stats back it up. After all, that is the point of the game; to tell a story, and quantify the characters involved in that story.
Viewing someone who doesn't have 40 point buy as not being a hero/villain, when the game doesn't assume that standard, is just plain silly, and is also a very unrealistic expectation of a generalistic forum such as this one.
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A spell eater Bloodrager has some self healing abilities. Blood of Life (Su) and Spell Eating (Su) are both Su abilities, thus magical in nature. Faster Healer feat can increase it a little bit to be functional.
The loss of Damage Reduction can hurt though.
Pun intended.
Personally...
Skill Unlocks + Adopted (Friendless) + potentially Skill Focus or a decent wisdom or a decent INT combined with Precise Treatment is the start to a slow but workable healing process that uses no magic. You could also worship Zon-Kothun (or convince your DM to let you take this without that requirement) and use the following trait: Battlefield Surgeon.
Is it a perfect solution? No. But it can make Heal a worthwhile skill when you have no spellcasters around.
Incidentally, if you want to find out which spell list a spell is on, Archives of Nethys is almost always your better bet. There's some things that d20pfsrd does better and vice versa, but for spell lists, Archives is consistently the most accurate in my experience; I tend to use it when working on a book with new spells when I want to compare to previous spells and see which classes have similar spells and other tasks that depend on both speed and accuracy in that regard.Are you sure infernal healing isn't on the bloodrager list? I thought Advanced Class Origins added it to their list.Weird -- if I go to the actual Bloodrager list it's there, but if I go to the spell description (same one the spell list links to), it isn't. Just checked Archives of Nethys, and it doesn't have this problem.
Will have to remember to check the actual spell lists as well as searching for the spells themselves (come to think of it, I have seen some other spell descriptions missing some classes that they are available to, although usually for Occult classes).
Point taken, but actually both sites have been having some problems updating all the stuff correctly for at least the last year, and each one has stuff that the other doesn't, even when it's stuff that both should have starting a reasonable amount of time after release. I have been habitually using www.d20pfsrd.com due to it being easier to navigate (especially since up until not all that long ago the Search on Archives of Nethys never seemed to work).
See about getting a pair of Boots of the Earth. Fast healing one each round you stand still and take a move action.
It's the first shared item my party buys each time we can.
We usually flavor them as increasingly dirty socks that lose their magic powers if you wash them.
I can't find Boots of the Earth on www.d20pfsrd.com or Archives of Nethys.
But as long as we're talking about using a magic item to alleviate the problem, once you can afford it, get a Ring of Regeneration (admittedly very expensive even if you somehow make it yourself -- are Boots of the Earth a lot cheaper?).
Boots of the Earth, 5 000 gp. Trouble is the PC is in such a low magic world he can't be sure of getting a magic item made with any conjuration spell, let alone a specific item like this.
A spell eater Bloodrager has some self healing abilities. Blood of Life (Su) and Spell Eating (Su) are both Su abilities, thus magical in nature. Faster Healer feat can increase it a little bit to be functional.The loss of Damage Reduction can hurt though.
Pun intended.
You gain it from your spells. Stoneskin, resin skin.
Miss chance is there as well.
With the spell A. barrier you can effectively add up to +5 more fast Healing. Since non lethal and lethal are healed in equal amounts. While the spell is up fast healing 5 becomes fast healing 10.
Add in the protector Archetype familiar for splitting damage.
The loss of DR is not as bad as you think or joke about.
The class has so many options for layered defenses it starts to make the other melees look bad by comparison honestly.
Boots of the Earth, 5 000 gp. Trouble is the PC is in such a low magic world he can't be sure of getting a magic item made with any conjuration spell, let alone a specific item like this.
I should have realized that the Archives of Nethys Wondrous Items Feet page is not in alphabetical order . . . .
Didn't the healers handbook have some self-healing options for the fighter?
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^Not specific to the Fighter, but generally available if you have enough Constitution (which many martials will have):
Combat Vigor (required for the other feats below except for Unconquerable Resolve)
Fortuitous Vigor
Restorative Vigor
Vim and Vigor
Take a Breather
Samurai-specific:
Edit: Found some racial abilities by way of alternate racial traits: For the elemental-touched, search for Hydrated Vitality (Undine) or * in the Blood (the others). Some other races may have similar options.
They do seem like pretty legit options to me if you want some martial heals.