I'm going to play a campaing where I will be the intelligent of the group and the trapfinder.
My choice was to build an Investigator with a lv in inspired blade. Unfortunately my GM said the only allowed books are Core, Advanced player, race and class and Ultimate magic, equip and combat. Therefore ruling out fencing grace.
Is there a tier 2 optimization for a Dex investigator or should I just switch to a Str build? (fyi: campaign starts at lv 5 and ends around 8)
From what you stated I believe he is only allowing:
Core Rule-book
Advanced Player's Guide
Ultimate Equipment
Ultimate Magic
Ultimate Combat
Advanced Class Guide
Advanced Race Guide
Did I miss anything?
Therefore ruling out fencing grace.
Is there a tier 2 optimization for a Dex investigator or should I just switch to a Str build? (fyi: campaign starts at lv 5 and ends around 8)
You are starting at 5...Go STR Build. It does more damage and the main 2 reasons to go Swashigator is to have combat viablity for Levels 1-4 and to be better at Skills over combat.
The Str Investigator is not far behind on skills at all and can easily pass skill checks, it is just the Swashigator with a combo of Daring Do & Inspiration has more bonuses possible. But again you are starting Level 5 and by then the STR Investigator is outperforming the Swashigator in Combat.
I recommend something like this:
Elf 20 point Buy:
Str: 16, Dex: 14, Con: 12, INt: 16, Wis: 10, Cha: 8
Alternative Racial:
Envoy- Elves with this racial trait and an Intelligence score of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like abilities once per day: comprehend languages, detect magic, detect poison, and read magic. The caster level for these effects is equal to the elf’s level. This racial trait replaces elven magic.
(You have no need for Elven magic so getting SLAs is nice...especially Detect magic, Poison and read magic.)
Class: Empiricist Investigator
Feats:
1: Power Attack
3: Combat Reflexes
5: Extra Talent- Infusion
7: Improved Fortitude (Or Your Choice...I just like shoring up my weaknesses @ level 7 since the game can become pretty deadly levels 7-12.)
Talents:
3: Mutagen
5: Quick Study
7: Sickening Offensive
I hope some of that helped.
Now if you are still dead set on a Dex based build you could probably work something around a Level of Fighter dip and Slashing Grace. It is not Swashigator synergy but without Fencing Grace Swashigator is pretty dead in the water unless you can get a +1 Agile Rapier...but I am not a player who likes to rely on Agile weapons because a Disarm/Sunder/Weapon Loss and you become dead in the water. But if your a player who thinks you can do with an Agile weapon then go for it. But at Level 5 most your wealth would mostly be going towards the weapon, leaving you only 2500 gp to buy all your other gear.
Unfortunately, DEX Investigators really want Inspired weapons to keep up with a somewhat reasonable damage when they reach higher levels (1d8x2 to damage with two Talents). And even then, I'd recommend STR over DEX if you're not allowed Fencing Grace.
What DEX Swastogators have over STR Investigators is pure survivability. Dex = AC AND you can use Parry and Repost to attack to stop an attack against you. But hitting qith a -1 to damage is a big no-no imo.
If your DM wants to play Favoritism and ONLY allow Ultimate Magic while rejecting the other Ultimate series, than play a Core Only Spellcaster and completely ruin every combat and skill encounter with Magic. :p
If you're dead set on Investigator, go STR with Long Spear or Spear.
Go Whirling Dervish Swashbuckler (or Dervish Dance feat) with a Scimitar instead of Inspired Blade. It's not as synergistic, but it works with Slashing Grace.
You could use an Aldori Dueling Sword and Slashing Grace that as another option.
EDIT: 3 levels of Unchained Rogue will get you there too.
Go Whirling Dervish Swashbuckler (or Dervish Dance feat) with a Scimitar instead of Inspired Blade. It's not as synergistic, but it works with Slashing Grace.
You could use an Aldori Dueling Sword and Slashing Grace that as another option.
EDIT: 3 levels of Unchained Rogue will get you there too.
Unchained was not mentioned in the Allowed books. Unless OP did not list it.
I have played a str based reach investigator from lv1 to lv12.
With armor, str mutagen, and barkskin your AC is really good. The advantage the dex route has is AC before these come online, but at lv5 that's not an issue since they are already online.
combat reflexes, power attack, quick study are your three feats for the reach build. Use a longspear to be able to have it be inspired.
It feels like fencing grace should be allowed anyway, since it had to be created because an oversight in the Advanced Class Guide.
Specifically, that "Slashing Grace" was created in order to allow scimitars, cutlasses, etc. to work with the Swashbuckler's class features that require one-handed piercing weapons, but this was deemed to be too weak for a feat, so "Dex-to-Damage" was added late in the game. This had the side effect of making a scimitar or cutlass strictly superior to a rapier for a swashbuckler (the iconic weapon a swashbuckler was supposed to be good with), so Fencing Grace was added in Advanced Class Origins as a patch (and was later fixed to prevent Magus shenanigans in Ultimate Intrigue).
But the Strengthstigator is probably a better plan anyway. The reason the swashtigator exists and is popular is that the Investigator is pretty wretched at fighting compared to other 3/4 BAB classes before they get studied combat at level 4. If you can skip that period entirely, there's no reason to dip.
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Having played a Swashgator to level ten I will agree with other posts it is weeker.
Here are my experiences, the build has the right feel parrying and striking, studying, using domino effect to set up the next shot, and bursting for damage to get the kill. But it's not that strong. The damage is behind the curve and you have to play very agressivly wiht extracts to keep up with the other melee characters.
I ended up taking a second dip into unchained barbarian for more damage. This made me happy with the character as it still rocked at skills, parried and reposed nearly perfectly, and has amazing AC and my damage was higher. But, all this had cost -2 levels of extracts (alchemical allocation helps this a bit) and very early realising I needed to save for celestial armour.
The character does very well at most PFS tables and has respectable DPR, tanks well (ac + temp HP), and I like the feel. But it is the less optimised combat build.
Of the investigators I have scene the best in-combat (STR>>DEX>>>>>>>Full support) and out-of-combat (Full Support>DEX>>Strength) but the be investigators are such good skill monkeys that you are going from 98 to 96 in skills between DEX and Strength but you are losing 30% of your combat ability.
Let me rephrase my last post. Parry/Repose is good... But only good with Inspired Blade archetype with Emp. Investigator archetype. Inspired Blade os really only good with a Dex build. So if you want Parry/Repose, you'll need to go Dex.
But without Fencing Grace, Str >>>>>> Dex builds.
Thanks every body for the help.
For those of you suggesting conflict with the GM: he is not just a bullying stranger. He's the friend I always play with, so if this time he wants to play this way, I'll just respect his decision and adapt.
Regarding unchained classes: not allowed. Otherwise I would have gone pure UC rouge.
Now that I took my time, Str is clearly a superior choice, so I will just drop the Dex path.
Loved the build. I'll keep it as an example. Is the Elf there just for the sla or am I missing something important?
Last but not least: now that we're set on Str build, what do you think of an investigator with natural attacks?
A combat investigator will eventually want an inspired weapon, so you should usually stick to specializing in weapons that can gain that ability. I believe the longspear is the usual recommendation for a strength based investigator.
You do have access to strong monster forms if you want to go natural attack route. And you have nice buffs to all your attack and damage, so turning into a gargoyle and getting tons of attacks will do LOTS of damage. The only issue with this is using extracts for a few minutes of awesome combat. If you're okay with that then it works great.
I was actually thinking about a race that already has natural attacks (lizardfolk or tiefling)
Short Sword and Slashing grace seems to fix most of this, though your crit range is one step lower.
All legal from the sources listed.
Short Sword and Slashing grace seems to fix most of this, though your crit range is one step lower.
All legal from the sources listed.
Good point. I personally still prefer the strength build, but if he wanted to go dex, this would be the best way for him to do it.
I was actually thinking about a race that already has natural attacks (lizardfolk or tiefling)
Lizardfolk is a fine race for any Str based Natural attack class. I really like the race myself.
If that is the route your wanting to go...then go for it. I have never really loved Natural attacks myself, preferring a Weapon and keeping my neck slot open to Utility (you get Barkskin or Iron skin most classes) So I can buy swarm-bane clasps and other useful items.
But if you like Natural attacks make sure you really understand them and deeply dive into the rules and FAQs on them. I feel Natural attacks and Mounted Combat rules are splattered across several sources with several relevant FAQs and not as clear and concise as normal weapons tend to be.
I personally Like Swashigator and Str Reach Builds depending what the Campaign will be like. Heavy Combat Verse Heavy Skills/RP. Like in Skulls and SHackles I would rather play a swashigator but in Rise of the Runelords I would rather Reachigator.
But if you are wanting to play an Alligator then Lizardfolk NA should be the race.
Your the Player so you can choose and we can help you flesh out the build to be effective. But the idea is do-able and not the worst thing I've seen brought to a table. I've seen some utter crap over the years and the forums will tell you if something is just completely not able to be done well enough to perform.