New day new AP new character. HELP(choice anxiety)(Hell's Rebels)

[Woodoodoo]

So my group is starting Hell's Rebels(PS why does hell's have an apostrophe?) and I am in the process of deciding what to play. This is WAY in advance of the other players since I always take so long to make a character so I don't know what the other players will be playing (f%$% character creation nights amirite?). And as usual my choice anxiety creeps up on me and I just have to explore EVERY option and i have a million idea's for builds.
I do understand that this AP is a little more in the way of intrigue than others so this is definitely opening new doors since I am normally used to building kind of combat focused martials.

I do like the idea of playing a spy or a rogue type character like the infiltrator investigator. Or a "urban" archetype like the siegebreaker(a bull rush build would be hilarious) fighter or using the pretty crazy street style. Charisma is of course going to be needed on most characters or that makes oracles/sorcerers/skalds/bards pretty awesome, as well as most full casters(except maybe for the more "wild" ones).

Then there is going with something that you normally can't play since It's not PFS legal(where i play most of the time) like some of the new archetypes in paths of the righteous like the brewkeeper dawnflower anchorite or doing some crazy flame blade build with flame blade dervish. Even the amazing Fiend keeper medium sounds pretty damn fun to RP.

BWARGH choosing a character is going to take forever, any of you that have played this AP have any advice? It would be appreciated.

[MCPooge]

First, it has an apostrophe because that is how you create a possessive.

Second, you've got a wild bunch of options there. While, yes, it is a little more intrigue-laden, that's not the only option. You can be more... straight-forward. You just will have to deal with the consequences.

Have you read the Player's Guide yet? That might help narrow things down a bit!

[mardaddy]

It's not for everyone, but I am having a great time with my Ratling Urban Druid, but then I prefer support-types. There is DEFINATELY a role to play for the sneaky/rogue/spy type.

I considered doing up a Vishkanya Deadly Courtesan, and if my ratling ever kicks it, I might go that route - it would be a good replacement.

[PhD. Okkam]

Try Cipher investigator?

[Woodoodoo]

So many choices. I feel like it would be cool to be some sort of spy/thief/smuggler.
Guildbreaker ranger sounds cool as well.

[Halek]

Legalistic curse oracle with lore revalation and sidestep secret. Dump dex. Get noble scion of war to make charimsa a charisma check. You run everything off of charisma.

[calagnar]

Bard
You have skills for being a spy/rogue.
If you want full trap you need two things. 1 trait vagabond child for disable device as a class skill. 2 level 2 bard spell Aram Zey's Focus to get trapfinding.
As a human with Int 12, and favored class bonus you have 9 ranks per level. Along with versatile performance to cover more. As a human you could go with Int 14, and fast learner feat. This gets you both the hit point and skill point per level for favored class. Along with a total of 10 skill ranks per level.

You have Cha for ability's and casting.

You have good combat ability for fighting.

I have found bards to make the best spy type characters. They have the skill and Cha so NPC believe what they are told. Along with enough skill points to pull off the rogue like aspects.

[jedi8187]

Sneaky is helpful, but unless you're whole part buys in you'll be going it alone or not using it. My vigilante makes do, but I'm a zealot with invisibility so I can disappear even if my group isn't being sneaky (they rarely are).

Charisma being useful depends on how often you break the party and who else has it. My group breaks up a lot so 3 out of 5 of us have social stuff, and it's a big help. We've talked our way out of several encounters.

Straight forward fighty types are valid (My group as a swashbuckler, a bloodrager, and my Vigilante all being capable beat sticks), but going for things with skill options like ranger, slayer, or vigilante might be more favorable in this instance than a pure combat fighter.

As for thematic fits:
Divine followers of any good diety, but Milani, Shelyn, Cayden, Iomedae especially. Also Irori interestingly.

Lean more chaos than lawful. While Lawful Good can be justified (there's even a trait for it in the player's guide), Lawful Neutral will be more at odds with what the campaign wants. But even still Chaotic Neutral is more on theme imo that Lawful Good. You're bad guys are almost all Lawful Evil.

Anything urban or intrigue based, we're into the second book right now and have barely left the city. While we do seem to be leaving at some point in the not too far future, it too seems to be to yet another city.

I have to give special mention to the Vigilante in the AP. It's so appropriate in many ways. You can even develop you're vigilante identity as part of the story due to the timing of things (You hit level 2, where you get your first vigilante talent, about the time you officially form your team). Honestly if there was ever an AP to run a Vigilante in this is it.

But of the options you suggested things that stand out to me as having a good thematic relevance to the AP I've played so far are : The Brewkeepr, Spy/Thief/Smuggler, Investigator. You mention preferring martials, so maybe look at Slayer, Swashbuckler, or Avenger Vigilante. All should allow you to be combat oriented without giving up too much out of combat utility.

It's kind of long, but hope it helps.

[Woodoodoo]

Nice, Jedi. Thanks.

[PhD. Okkam]

Would you like to play "Dandy" archetype for the Ranger.
6+Int skill points, full BAB, combat style feats, little bardic spellcasting all make for an excellently rounded, intelligent and charismatic aristocrat/spy or ambassador/smuggler.

[Ierox]

This is also a FREEDUMMMMCHAOTICGOODYOLOM!&&+!&!$&*#! AP, so, Desna is obviously appropriate.

And with her comes the cha-to-hit-and-damage feat for her starknife.

[Woodoodoo]

Okay so a followup question. How do I make the perfect spy? I feel like infiltrator investigator using something like orator would be pretty strong. There is of course the master spy prestige class.

On another note I think this AP really does open up for some interesting archetypes like the hilarious Cleaner slayer.

Filcher/sharper rogue might be funny as well. Alchemical sapper, obviously the Vigilante will be awesome here as well. But what archetype/specialization.

I feel like charisma to hit and damage is a little too strong? I might be overreacting but I can think of some dreadful combo's using that.

[Jodokai]

I have never played the AP, but when thinking about characters for it, I thought of a Skinshaper Druid. Another option would be combine some of the other ideas (Investigator, Dandy Ranger etc) with Kitsune and take Realistic Likeness.

[jedi8187]

Woodoodoo wrote:

Okay so a followup question. How do I make the perfect spy? I feel like infiltrator investigator using something like orator would be pretty strong. There is of course the master spy prestige class.

On another note I think this AP really does open up for some interesting archetypes like the hilarious Cleaner slayer.

Filcher/sharper rogue might be funny as well. Alchemical sapper, obviously the Vigilante will be awesome here as well. But what archetype/specialization.

I feel like charisma to hit and damage is a little too strong? I might be overreacting but I can think of some dreadful combo's using that.

I'm not great at building spys, as I tend to be more brawn melee types. I get by strictly through invisibility on my vigilante. So I'm going to avoid giving too much advice outside of stealth, perception, divination, and invisibility as obvious tools.

The cleaner might have some use, especially if your team racks up the body count. The more dead guard the worse for you.

Archetype/Specialization for vigilante has many options. Avenger gives you the fighty type you like, while not giving up stealth usage. If going for the Stalker it's almost always better to go the Tiatsu archetype, unless you want to use it with one of the few archetypes that doesn't give up specialization. I will give special mention to the Zealot as appropriate (I'm a zealot of Milani), get that divine favor thing and the sneaky nature of the vigilante. Agathiel and it's ties to the Agathion might have some interesting story to tell. Faceless Enforcer can give you ties to the Hellknights, the torrent in particular having a place in the story. The Bellflower Harvester could have some good potential. Other than Mounted Fury and Serial Killer they call all fit though, so really do as you like.

[Melkiador]

First, you don't really need the entire party to have high charisma. It's just not great to dump it. You will actually want a good mix of people with a variety of high ability scores. For instance, you'll want an intelligent guy and a wisdom guy too.

Second, the thing your party may really want that's also not an option in PFS is a magic item crafter. The amount of downtime you have in this AP is extreme.

[Meraki]

There's also the spy archetype for rogue if you wanted to be a rogue (works for both the regular and unchained rogue).

[PossibleCabbage]

I have not played Hell's Rebels, but it does seem like there isn't likely to be a better opportunity to play a Vigilante in any future AP, so if you've got a vigilante concept/build in the back of your head that you had a hard time justifying because it doesn't make sense for anybody to maintain a secret identity when dungeoneering, this is probably the time to do it.

[Woodoodoo]

Is the Phantom thief rogue archetype someone that could thrive in hell's rebels?

[avr]

You'll still need some combat ability, so phantom thieves don't sound good to me.

The psychometrist vigilante gets a bunch of supernatural powers courtesy of their occultist-like implements, and (Su) stuff is naturally sneakier than spells. They also keep their vigilante specialisation unlike most other archetypes. Worth considering?

[Skull]

I would recommend an urban ranger. We had 2 (while the characters were alive) of them in the party for a while. And all of their calss abilities were useful!

It's the perfect archtype for this AP. It also has enough skills to be stealthy and gets favoured community bonuses on stealth as well. It also gets trapfinding if that is why you want to rogue. Full BAB and spell casting to boot.