Trying to Grok the Spiritualist, the Phantom and its Ectoplasm

[J. A.]

I’ve been reading through the classes in Occult Adventures, and while I really like the concept and the flavor of the spiritualist, I’m finding it extremely difficult to understand the mechanics — in particular the various states of the phantom, the revolving door with the Ethereal Plane, and especially the nature of ectoplasm.

It’s ectoplasm that’s causing me the most headaches, because it doesn’t seem to be clearly defined in the spiritualist class entry, nor anywhere else in Occult Adventures. There doesn’t seem to be a definition in the CRB or the Bestiary, and all I can find is the Ectoplasmic Creature template in Bestiary 4.

That template only causes me more confusion, because the template version of ectoplasm seems to be inherently malignant, pain-wracked and evil, which is completely different from how the spiritualist’s phantom is described. The template explicitly describes ectoplasm as “undead matter,” whereas the spiritualist class description goes to some lengths to explain how the phantom isn’t undead at all.

So it feels like there are two different versions of ectoplasm in use — and while I have a pretty clear idea of the version from the template, I don’t have a solid sense (so to speak) of what the phantom’s ectoplasm is like. It seems to have unique properties (passes through walls, neither corporeal nor incorporeal) so I’m wondering if there’s a formal definition of the phantom’s ectoplasm anywhere around.

[Chess Pwn]

the ectoplasm form is just incorporeal form for the phantom. It has nothing to do with ectoplasm creatures or templates or anything else.

phantom has 3 states
Inside you
outside physical
outside incorporeal

[Kando]

There are no 2 versions in use.

The simple answer is Undead=Negative Energie=Evil. Thats at least how paizo justifice/thinks about it.

So to make a character like that work and not by default evil they came up with simply calling it Ectoplasm.
I/you can still think about it like a thick variant of negative energie in your head, negative energie is the energie what makes every undead (ghosts,zombies,vampire, skeletons whatever) work.
And in stead of calling him an undead (what the phantom should be by default when you think about it logicaly) they call him an outsider.

So because of the Undead=Negative Energie=Evil stupididy, situations like that come up, better just dont think about it to hard.
Paizo is not going to change there stance on that.

[Firelock]

What does "Grok" mean?

[PossibleCabbage]

Firelock wrote:

What does "Grok" mean?

Understand at an intuitive level. It's a neologism coined by Heinlein in "Stranger in a Strange Land", and a good word to keep in your (metaphorical) pocket.

[J. A.]

That's a more concise definition of "grok" than the one I was going to post. : )

I'd still appreciate any clarification on the ectoplasm issue, especially on the question of whether the phantom's ectoplasm is the same material as the template in Bestiary 4, or if it's a different form of ectoplasm altogether--or, if as seems likely, this simply hasn't been defined at all.

Any thoughts, or better yet rules citations from specific sources?