Kando's page

No

1. Your necro fokus is suppost to be used with SPELLS like for example animate dead.
And your Necromantic Servant is an optional CLASS SKILL.

"(to a maximum number of Hit Dice equal to 4 × your occultist level)" is the first and clear reference to the for example animated dead spells text.

2. The way your Necromantic servant limit is set up (first a specificly numbered limit and later 1/2 your occultist lvl on the "splits") your would need a specificly worded feat to add more servants.

BUT you can still have the full "bucket" of undead from as example animated dead spell + your servant + all the "splits" + other "buckets" later.

Here is a good guide that explains it much better.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5kvBvq2DEHjRWFhSWc1ZzAzaDg/edit

There are no 2 versions in use.

The simple answer is Undead=Negative Energie=Evil. Thats at least how paizo justifice/thinks about it.

So to make a character like that work and not by default evil they came up with simply calling it Ectoplasm.
I/you can still think about it like a thick variant of negative energie in your head, negative energie is the energie what makes every undead (ghosts,zombies,vampire, skeletons whatever) work.
And in stead of calling him an undead (what the phantom should be by default when you think about it logicaly) they call him an outsider.

So because of the Undead=Negative Energie=Evil stupididy, situations like that come up, better just dont think about it to hard.
Paizo is not going to change there stance on that.

I dont get your question.

So i just can make a guess.

A incorperal manifestat phantom can never attack a corperal creature, there text (the text of the phantom) says so. Except for the touch attack of course.

And the interpretation part is because of you trying to make a ring or amulet or whatever else other then a weapon with the ghost touch enchant, not every gm will roll with that.

I just forgot to specificaly call it out, the first sentence should say.

A incorperal manifestat phantom can never attack a corperal creature, there text says so. except for the touch attack of course.

My bad, it was and again is late.

ps: A amulet of mighty fists enchanted with Ghost Touch does not work ether.
Its the same with the feat that basicaly grands you the benefits of a ghost touch enchant and the ectoplasmic metamagic feat (for your touch attacks) at the same time.

To override this rule, it would need to specificialy call out that you can attack corperal creatures as incorperal phantom now.
But of course, you can speak to your gm and houserule what you want. Its a stupid and unnecessary exception to all other incorperal creatures in the first place.

There are two different answers to this.

First: alignment is altered by your deeds. A Necromancer who does a lot of good deeds with a good heart can at least remain Neutral if not Good whilst teetering on the edge of falling to Neutral.

You are somewhat right but this depends on your gm, if you can get way with that, speaking from (bad) experience here.

Second: there's nothing wrong with evil characters. Some GM's [and PFS] ban them, and for fairly good reason [Douchebag players often use the word Evil on their character sheet as an excuse to be disruptive.] but there's nothing in the rules prohibiting an evil PC in a standard party.

As you already sayd some gms (and PFS) ban evil player charakters. Depending on his/here roleplaying maybe a mixed alignend group is not something he/she wants to do ether. Thats why i sayd it in the first place.

First and most importenly if you want to play a minion master you will most likely need to be evil, as raising the undead is considerd pure evil in most/all pathfinder settings.
As long as your gm is not fine with houseruling of course.

For building a minion master I will quote Castilonium here, he is right.

Wizards are better at debuffing, clerics are better at minion mastery. You need Animate Dead, Desecrate, and either Remove Paralysis or Haste. Don't use Create Undead. The only minions you should consider raising are Bloody Skeletons and Fast Zombies. Bloody Skeletons for immortal beatsticks, Fast Zombies for flying mounts. The only things you need to know from your GM when you raise a given creature are its HD, size, str, dex, and number of natural attacks.

So if you want a full minion master use the guide with a cleric.

And if you want more of a fighter with minions the Occultist with the necrooccultist achetype can be great, i am working in my off time at a good concept.
But i think this is to much for a pathfinder newby to work out.

In pathfinder there are basicaly 2 types of necromancers.

The minion master with an undead hord at your command
or
the debuff necromancer as the necromancy school has some of the best debuffs

What should it be?

A phantom can never attack a corperal creature, there text says so. except for the touch attack of course.

If you use the feat you deal full damage to incorperal beings while fully manifestet. And your touch spells also can deal full damage with this feat.
With incorperal manifestation you can already attack incorperal creatures but the 50% malus for incorperal would still apply, with this feat it does not.

There is no word if you equip a ring for example to your phantom that it stays with his incorperal manifestation or while you putting him back into your mind, so when you try it, the item falls to the ground.
Only a fully manifestat phantom can equip/use some items and yes if you want to do that you have to reequip him every time. After you put it into your mind, at least.

To be fair you can argue that when you fully manifest him first then equip the item and then later shift him into incorperal that the items can stay on him. This would work the same with player characters. But be prepared, this interpretation can also change form gm to gm.
But of course this will not help with the putting him back into your mind part, then they still fall to the ground.

Or you can speak with your gm and ask him if you can put a ghost touch enchant on every item you want him to wear. Then there is no arguement at least about the equipment part. But of course this is also open for interpretation.

A phantom can wear all items except for weapons and armor.

In short, dont play a spiritualist. The class has to many flaws and is not fully thought through.
I know the class is very flavorful but sooner or later you will regret it.

I kind of dont get it ether.

I just try to go as simple as possible.

I don't really see where all the hate is coming from. It looks like it would be as viable as any other.

Problems with the eldritch scion

- 1 Arcane pool point for 2 rounds mystic fokus as swift action, all things considered, is silly for a class that can have/uses so many swift actions. And many costs points too.
So, depending on your bloodline, you will use most if not all your points just to activate your bloodline powers and avoid arcana/feats that costs swift action/points. Or you kind of "avoid" your Bloodline. But then except for seriously waked roleplay reasons there is no point in picking this archtype.

I dont know if there is an error or this is supposed to be balanced but this is simply not fun at all.

As it plays now, it feels like they replaced arcana with a gutted Bloodrage. With a silly mechanical limitation on top.
As it is now, i would take a real bloodrage in place of arcana you dont have the pool/action economy to support anyway.

At the very least they should have considerd making this a free action and/or up the rounds. As a free action at least you dont feel as crippeled. At least in the short run....

- Editing error

Bonus Spells
At 7th level, an eldritch scion gains the bonus spell from his bloodrager bloodline that is normally gained at 10th level. He gains the next three bonus spells from his bloodline at 9th, 11th, and 13th levels, respectively

But here the bonus spells from draconic bloodline....

Bonus Spells:
Shield (7th), resist energy (10th), fly (13th), fear (16th)

know let the confusion begin......

- FAQ worthy error/Editing error

The Archtype replaces spell recall, but there is an impoved version so the basic version "should" come online later but it cant, if you play it as written you can not recall anything because the archtype does not prepare spells.

- other flaws

The magus skillpoints per lvl (2+int mod) is balanced around the fact that he is/was a int caster class to begin with, with this archetype he doesnt need int that much so his skill points should have gone up to a 4 +int mod.
I seriously dont believe they expect this archtype to put points into int, too. The class is already mad and this archtype even more so.

Personaly i hate
- I personaly still dont get if constant bloodline abilitys are also constant for the scion. Or if everything just works with mystic fokus.
- that it needs the Spontaneous Metafocus feat to metamagic a spell with spellcombat now.
- because of the crippling 2round fokus cost/mechanic full spellcombat at 8lvl is and feels way to late.
- Carrying on with the Bloodline theme they should have strongly considered giving it "eschew materials" as a bonus feat.

I loved the flavor but this archtype in its current form is just plain underwelming at its best and no fun/almost broken at its worst. And i am sorry but i dont consider bandaiding serious flaws in the archetype with heavy investment in feats/arcana/etc. good practice. And that just to make it injoyable.

I hope i have most of it.

And as k-kun already sayd going out of Eldritch scion for dd gimps it even more.

Bloodrager with dragon bloodline is better at physical combat prowess, and its bloodline powers are increased like the sorcerer, but is dependant on rounds of Rage that DD don't increase. Can use spells in light and heavy armor (Heavy Mithral also works), while Steelblood archetype can be used with Heavy armors too.

Bloodrager with dragon disciple is the best option if he/she wants a frontliner with some spellcasting.

My Opinion

You could also instead of all of that nonsense either

a. be a kobold
b. be a human with the racial heritage: kobold feat, or
c. be an aasimar with the same

and then use the Scaled Disciple feat to use a divine spontaneous spellcasting class to qualify for Dragon Disciple!

So you can be a Paladin 4/Oracle 1/DD X or a Paladin 2/Oracle 3/DD X and run around casting divine spells in armor with no worries. Also, if you take the Lore or Nature mysteries you can use your Charisma instead of your Dex for AC. Also, you Oracle's Curse will scale at half rate even when you aren't leveling up as an oracle.

PS: you can also qualify as an inquisitor, but they are much more dependent on Wisdom.

And you dident read the part about only using the core books.

Eldritch Scion Magus is... okay. It's not a strong choice for entering into Dragon Disciple, though.

Barbarian 4/Sorcerer 1 is a very good choice, especially Eldritch Scrapper Sorcerer.

Bloodrager 5 is also good.

Then again, Bloodrager lets you effectively play a Dragon Disciple from level 1 onward, without the constraints of only having the Dragon bloodline.

Lets just for ones stop beating around the bush, the eldritch scion sucks hard. At the very least compared to the alternatives.

There are still a few thinks to errata with the archtype and even with favorable errata, he at his core without an rewrite, has so many flaws, only the hardcore gish player would/should even consider to play him.

Sorry....

The only think to miss with a blood rager are cantrips. But who needs shocking grasps when you already do a very good amount of damage?

Ps: the eldrtich scion magus is not a very good shocking grasp spammer.

Better go with a bloodrager, the eldritch scion magus is realy not good.

Ok to be perfectly honest, when you want to breath fire and form of the dragon better choose sorcerer again instead of bard, if you realy want you can still take 2lvl in paladin if you realy want to wear armor and for divine grace.

The trait and feats work with sorcerer instead of bard lvl more or less even better.

If you use the trait with sorcerer and with no paladin lvl you can even argue with your gm that you lose only 1 spell lvl with still 10lvl in dragon disciple.
You would end up with a 12 lvl sorcerer + 7lvl dd spell progression.

You only have a spell failure chance when you cast a spell with an S (Somatic) componant there is a metamagic feat "still spell" for when you realy need that spell to not fail.

https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/feats/metamagic-feats/still-spe ll-metamagic---final

Or you use a mithral heavy armor, it counts as a medium armor and then you can use it with the arcane armor feat line.

What about 9 levels in paladin, 10th level take bard, then 11+ do DD?

And what feat would that be?

This magic trait.

As you plan it you would end up at lvl 20 with
paladin 9lvl divine spell casting with
2 first lvl spells
1 second lvl spell

and bard 8lvl arcane spell casting (1 real lvl) with
6 lvl0
4 lvl1
4 lvl2
2 lvl3

I dont realy need to tell you why a lower caster lvl is bad, or do I? But just as example spells per day, spells known, concentration checks....

And you have almost nothing from your paladin spell list anyway, with his max lvl4 spell casting.

As i plan it you would end up at lvl 20 with divine grace and the Proficiencys, the reason most even care to multiclass paladin in the first place.

and bard 17lvl spell casting with just losing out on 3 lvl of spells per day and spells known and just because of dragon disciple (lvl10).

Just my opinion, but do what you want, its your Character.

I would do

2lvl paladin for divine grace and Proficiencys)
xlvl bard
xlvl dd
rest bard

There is a feat or trait that lets the first 2 paladin lvl count as bard lvl for casting i believe. Use it, "dead" caster lvl are never a good idea and you already have 1-3 "dead" caster lvl depending on your dragon disciple lvls.

And bard just because you dont want to play a sorc/dd again and more of a "fighter". But still, its a worse choice.

In my humble opinion. Just core is very limiting...

Just core books are allowed.

And the instant casting thing didn't even occur to me. I guess I would need at least 1 spellcaster level.

Dont forget your divine spell caster lvl will not grow as you lvl in dragon disciple

Dragon disciple clearly says "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class" at most his lvl ups.

This means, depending on how many lvl of sorcerer/dd you want to go, paladin caster lvl (starting at lvl 4 and with max lvl4 spells) will be as good as wasted.

Sure its a just for fun char, but better overthink that combination, its realy not that good.

If you want a "fighter" with some spell casting better ask your gm if you can take a Bloodrager/dd.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/bloodrager

Just my opinion. Its your Char after all.

Dracon Disciple

Requirements

To qualify to become a dragon disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Race: Any non-dragon.

Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks*.

Languages: Draconic.

Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation. If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline. If the character gains levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the draconic bloodline.

Paladin

Spells

Beginning at 4th level, a paladin gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells which are drawn from the paladin spell list. A paladin must choose and prepare her spells in advance.

Uncontrolled undead are mindless and evil so they would/should attack the first living thing on sight until they are truly dead. But there are no hard and fast rules so speak with your gm what you can expect.

Because of the fact that pathfinder as standart only supports psychopath Necromancers that raise mostly humans for there amusement there are no special rules for animal special attacks.

So normaly they would lose all them all, but if your gm is fine with houseruling speak about him about this abilitys, i would allow it. Most of the animals lose a lot of hp because of the undead templates anyway. Even if your bloody ones come back an hour later i see not much reason why not, as long as it makes some sense.

Edit: Ok sorry, i dident remember the "It retains any extraordinary special qualities that improve its melee or ranged attacks." part.

Let me explain the diffrent natural armor bonuses with a dragon, but of course you can apply this to any other creature.

There is the flat natural armor like the scales from a dragon.
Then there is natural armor bonus think about it like the scales/skin becoming unnatural/magicaly hard/resilient.
Dragons are by nature heavy armored and resilent so they "can" get a size bonus to natural armor.
And at last there is the "only" magical enhancement bonus to natural armor a dragon could get for example with items. It makes the scales look shiny and clean.^^
Thats how i try to remember the diffrent bonuses.

All of these can/would stack.
the first is only called natural armor (flat and undefined)
the second ist called natural armor bonus (undefined "magical" bonus)
the third is called a size bonus to natural armor (look at the spell "form of the Dragon")
and the last is called an enhancement bonus to natural armor.

But of course they can/would not stack with themselves.

So no, there are both "natural armor bonuses" in your case so they would not stack. The easyiest way for you to get a stacking armor bonus would be lvls of dragon disciple. Or the amulet of natural armor.

ps: no gm should have a problem if you dont let your character or any other creature "grow" scales or something with the "magical" bonus, because you dont have to it is still a "magical" bonus. On the other hand the flat natural armor should always be visible in some way.
pps: the beastiary does not always call out the first 3 diffrent natural armor bonuses and just puts them together as natural armor or base natural armor. And thats why there is so much confusion.

Dude, Kando, you can use the incorporeal form to deliver melee touch attacks at range, and it's not nearly as risky as doing the same with a familiar. Having the eidolon's "come back the next day if you die" ability alone goes well with that, but on top of that a lot of things can't fight back against incorporeal creatures. That's pretty powerful. Not to mention the scouting abilities could be used to ambush as well. Or retrieve objects from behind sealed doors, through the use of Phantom Recall. Its individual abilities might not be impressive on their own, but there's a lot of potential synergies there.

There's way more this thing can do that what me or Rogar mentioned, too. Don't focus on the small number of examples we brought up. Think of the big picture.

-The deliver touch attack thing is the only real cool and "new" ability for an companion phantom (familiars are diffrent), thats the only part where you are totaly right.

The only thing that the phantom has that is better then a familiar is that the spiritualist can cast his spell at range and the phantom does not need to return to the spiritualist before delivering like a familiar. But A familiar build right is at least equaly good.

-As you sayd already the the eidolon has the same "ressurrection" ability AND even the unchained eidolon has much more survivability and damage potential. So whats your point?
For Druids and mage familiars, except for when you have a douche for a gm you get your animal companion or familiar relatively soon replaced. And they are MUCH less likely to die in the first place, of a familiar not so much but you can get it on exceptable lvl. Except of course when you let your phantom 24/7 in incorporal manifestation and there are no ghost type enemys. There is an even better archtype for this kind of playstyle.

- The incorporal can only fight other incorporal.
I can only say, if you want a familiar for delivering touch attacks, go get a familiar.

- For scouting there is a nice item that i already showed you and its rather cheap to. For more then just seeing in the next room stuff there are realy good familiars, too.

- So you use/save your phantom recall for a hypotatical, and depending on gm relativly rare scenario, thats fine. But thats something some familars can do for you to, or at least almost as easy.

But you now what, i garantie you if you dont always fight with an incorporal phantom (so you basicaly use it like a familiar) it is far more likly that you use this 2/day ability (at lvl 10) to save your phantom from dieing, for healing or to simple reposition him, so his pityful ac and the following aoo will not kill it or drain you hp even more.

Or you could snap him back on your turn sure but then have fun summoning him for a 10 rounds or lose a meat shield.

To be fair here, you have at least some options left with bonded manifestation, but depending on how much hp you already sacrificed to let him stay alive this will not be much help.
But depending on how you build the spiritualist at least you could/will be a more capable front line fighter then he ever was with this. But if you go that route you should strongly consider the archtype.

Or you let him die and become even more useless for the rest of the day.

So bottom line, except for bonded manifestation, i can only say it again, if you want a familiar go get a familiar. You can even have both at the same time.

Kando wrote:

When i as a mage use/can use mindcontrol on one villian to kill the others the people maybe will not like me for it but at least they will not instantly kill me or am i forced to be "evil".

When i as a necromancer make the corpse of a dead villian move just long enough to finish the fight. I am an ultimate evil person. And need to be killed on sight.
There are more neutral variants of this but i am choosing this example to show you where there is the big problem with flat out saying undead/moving corpses=evil.

There's a difference between "Is an evil act" and "Makes you the ultimate evil person who needs to be killed on sight."

Yes, it's evil to do so. No, doing so once doesn't make an otherwise good person evil. Yes, circumstances and intent matter, but if you're going to rely heavily on evil means, you'll eventually be evil. But still probably not "kill on sight". Even paladins don't have to kill every thing evil on sight.

And mindcontroling a person is not an "evil act"? Or throwing a fireball in someones face? Seriously....

No amount of handwaved explanations will change that for me. Not in a world where there is magic and mages can create there own dimensions or stop time itself.

I dont know what groups you play in or what types of paladins you adventure with, but mostly because of this evil discriptore, even when the gm has/would houserule this away, even when i am totaly a nice guy, i will burn at the stake as soon as i even make a finger move.

And move objects comes way to late to play a necromancer type.

One of my first groups broke up because of this, now i am not even trying anymore. I just have to deal with that.
As Stupid and illogical as i think it is.

1. As incorperal he needs to stay within your eyesight.

2. And as corporal he will leave behind ectoplasm on the walls. And cant stay "halfway" in walls.

3. If you are so found of that scout ability, i am afraid i will blow your mind, but....
Gloves of Reconnaissance
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/glove s-of-reconnaissance

These cheap gloves will always be 100% better then your phantom.
I can only say you paid a very high price for a much weaker but, "at will" version of a 2000g item.
Gratulations

Saying "the end justifies the means" is also an "easy way out." Take your scenario, and then take into account that creating intelligent undead utilizes the individual's soul, forcing them into becoming that undead, not just an approximation of Animate Objects on a corpse. That makes it decidedly less Neutral.

I will quote myself here simple because they are very importent faktors.

just because i am a necromancer i am not like a kid in a candy store and have to raise every persons dead belovid just to make it dance, thats just stupid.

and

That in this world nobody can come up with a spell that makes a corpse move that isnt inherintly absolut evil is ludicrous.

So Define the end justifice the means.

Creating tormented ghosts, wailing spirits and other clearly evil undead as the create undead spells at least mostly do i am not even argueing with you, thats just simply evil.

But what i am argueing with you is, in a world where you can create new spells, there is magic and making the dead move again is clearly possible that doing it without it being always inherintly absolut evil is extremly unlikely.

And who says i always need to force anyone? Cant you come up yourself with a scenario where a temporary undead/spirit as example like a zeal phantom from occult adventures would be glad to help?

Not surprising, make the phantom even weaker then they already are.

Its nice when you have that that anger phantom and with all his "buffs" active he will have like 4ac without maybe items and feats at lvl10 (including the attack bonus for enemies in your aura), just to come close to the damage an equal animal companion can do and dont forget less health then it.

Sounds realy Great

If we say something like "This feat has a prerequisite of +7 base attack bonus," but then if we errata that later to "This feat has a prerequisite of +5 base attack bonus" folks seem to be able to understand that the +7 version was an error and that it was never intended to be and that the +5 version is the correct one, despite the fact that we did indeed print the (incorrect) +7 version first.

If we say "There are paladins of Asmodeus" and then we errata it later to "There are no paladins of Asmodeus," how is that any different than fixing an error in rules? Why do some people not give flavor error fixes the same respect they give rules error fixes?

It baffles and depresses and frustrates me.

Paizo's policy for not issuing errata unless we reprint a product combined with almost only reprinting rules-heavy products doesn't help, of course.

Changing numbers will never be the same as changing/adding lore. And most importenly in your example it would be a buff try the same with a nerf and we will see how many will care^^.

Lore is a very diffrent kind of beast. I can only try to explain it from my own perspective, i am normaly a real sucker for lore.

As soon as new lore comes out the world you create becomes bigger and more "fleshed out" it was always there but we only dident kind of now about it. But as soon as as it comes out, its there and it will never realy vanish in our/my mind.

Simply taking that away is like taking away salt from a meal it REALY loses flavor.
Except when nobody or at least a huge amount of people dident liked the "flavor" to begin with.

And this is pushed to the max with such a controversal thing like the undead always evil argument.

About that undead always evil argument.

Personaly in a world where raising undead is very real and not just a horror story to scare children, the world would change with it.

As example it was a the end of shawn of the dead as the people survived they made "use" of the undead, i personaly would not take it that far but it is one of at worst "neutral" possibilitys.
Yes it was a comedy but i thing if zombies would become real and we would survive "as easy" this is one more or less realistic outcome of the modern world with it.
But dont forget its at its early stages, i personaly thing the zombie that pushes the cards indefinitly for the rest of his undead live would take it to far, as one example.

I am not saying that undead would or should become common place or that necromancer will be liked much. But at least in most of the world they would or should not be kill on sight because of it. As with every other mage type he would be capable of very good but also very evil things.

I could come up with more then enough uses of the undead that would at its worst be neutral.
Or to you realy thing that what aragorn did in the lord of the rings with his undead army was evil?
And just because i am a necromancer i am not like a kid in a candy store and have to raise every persons dead belovid just to make it dance, thats just stupid.

That in this world nobody can come up with a spell that makes a corpse move that isnt inherintly absolut evil is ludicrous.
And that there is no order of at least neutral necromancers like in diablo 2 or other fantasy settings is just ludicrous ether.

To be fair it would be a tough thought experiment to thing what would become good or evil in many situation, or sometimes even neutral regarding undead, but taking the easy way out and just saying undead=evil isnt right ether in my opinion.

You better do that, the base anger phantom with all his "buffs" active but without maybe items and feats will have a base valve of 4AC at lvl10 (including the +2 attack bonus for enemies within your aura).

And what i "noticed" at lvl 17 he gets an ability that works like "wail of the banshee" but the text still misses the "excluding yourself" part. So if you fail the fort save the anger phantom basically kills himself, but hey at least its one of you better saves (around a 50/50% chance without items and worse if you dont put at least one bonus ability point in con).

So let me get this straight.

-Nerf scissors (spiritualist)
-because it CAN BE op against paper(other OA classes)
-so it gets crushed even harder by rock (other classes)

But rock does not exist in this microcosmos of balance, so that leaves us with this.

-paper most of the time beats scissors. (its not like paper has a little less reliable tools to do the same to scissors)
-and scissors may barely beat paper in the op/same circumstance.

Is that what you are saying? Sounds realy balanced to me.

The dev did a realy good job.

I really want to make a spiritualist archetype with his phantom bound to a zombie or a skeleton.

If you have nothing against 3rd party or are to fokust on the spiritualist.

try the white necromancer with the grave bound archetype
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/kobold-press-open-design/ white-necromancer/archetypes/grave-bound

and if you are dead set on spiritualist you can let your phantom look like whatever you want.
I mean as example we are supposed to "choose" our own look of weapon.
As phantom you have slam attacks but in the release it says that you can let it look like any weapon you want because the phantom may try to cut you with a scythe but in reality he hits you with its ectoplasmic body.

Or rather, they have comparable stats to an animal companion, but don't get abilities like pounce, stun, grab, trip. And they only ever have the 2 natural attacks, compared to most animal companions that have 3+ or one super attack, plus the multiattack ability. And there are a lot of really great animal only buffs. I can't think of any that are outsider only off hand, and a lot of buff spells specify humanoid, which means the spiritualist is the only one who can cast it.

Comparable stats to an animal companions without the significant upgrade at lvl7 and the animal can wear armor/apropiate items without it getting to annoying/dangerous.

seriously the phantom has just 4 things going for it over other companions.

-A very good scout abilitys (something you can safer reproduce with a more or less cheap item).
-More skill points mostly because of the bonus skillpoints of the emotional fokus.
-and every phantom has more or less one/some form of party buff.
Some bad, some ok and some good but non are significant enough to justify the sorry base.
-it can deliver touch spells for you at range that can honestly be very good but if you miss the spell is lost/still used up because the phantom can not "hold the charge".

GREAT!

I'm not sure why you say that phantoms aren't viable in combat.

A level 1 anger phantom has slam +3/+3 1d8+3, or using the free Power Attack +2/+2 1d8+5. Not bad for first level

And they advance fairly well. That damage die goes up to 2d8 by level 10, with Str 20. They have effectively 3/4 BAB, have that trade AC for accuracy aura, and 1/day can rage and enlarge.

They aren't PC level strong, but they can make an effective combat companion. By lvl 10 you can have Cornugon Smash to add Intimidate to your attacks. That's a baseline slam +13/+13 2d8+9 with -2AC.

What is the "acceptable level"?

Also, can an anger phantom take Improved Natural Attack, or will that not stack with its Powerful Strike?

Taking the most damage fokust emotion and showing of what it can do at lvl1 is not proving anything. The only saving grace for it is that the phantom gets a full bab secound attack from lvl1 on.

And even then i can do the same with any other companion optimized and optimizing it further for damage and i can potentially double and depending on how far i want to go out of my way to do damage, even triple your damage at every lvl if i want to.
And most likely will still have a good amount more AC and/or hp.

And most importenly i am still not out of options.
Show me how you get with you anger phantom on a resonable amount of ac without armor and dex bonus.
On entry says you can, on you cant and even if you can always reequiping that gear can be realy annoying and potensially dangerous the spiritualist armor is connected to so as long as your phantom wears armor your spiritualist can not wear any.
Or more hp apart from ability bonus and toughness any other companion can get to and they still gets 1 more at the end.

Fact is, other companions can do at least almost as much damage as your anger phantom (the most straight damage one) and will still overall be better. Sorry but i am not starting with saves etc. the only think i am saying as an anger phantom you ref save will be terrible.

Brutal honesty time because I really did like the flavor of the Spiritualist and feel as though my expectations of the class were entirely dashed.

I was disappointed with the lack of developer feedback on the Spiritualist during the playtests, and I remain disappointed with the class in its final iteration. The additions to the class seem lazy and/or lacking.

The Phantom doesn't appear to have any viability as a martial combatant without use of an archetype; its stats are lacking, its abilities while flavorful and varied are incredibly fixed in terms of options and rarely contribute meaningfully to augment its combat prowess to an acceptable level. Incorporeal scouting and phasing through walls remains cool, but of limited impressiveness beyond low levels.

The archetype that trades away the physical manifestation of the Phantom appears to then nerf the incorporeal Phantom rather than empower it, taking away its emotional focus in exchange for some bland, generic "ghost" powers.

The foci themselves have seemingly not been updated at all since the playtest, beyond adding a couple of foci that just seem like retreads of abilities from other foci.

The spell list is obviously much improved with the addition of the unique psychic spells, but the Spiritualist still gets a painfully small amount of them with no real options in-class that seem like an acceptable alternative use of that important standard action. Considering one of the two "better than the base class" archetypes sucks up spell slots like crazy, that's pretty painful.

My PFS Spiritualist already felt close to a burden to the tables I played at, with most of its contributions coming in the form of "cute" tricks with the incorporeal Phantom or using the ectoplasmic Phantom as...

Thats exactly what i am feeling.

After comparing the offical release and the test doc. I am extremly disappointed and as you already sayd the lack of communication just lets it look like the dev dident realy care, it certainly looks like it.

Not much more thought was put into it then for the obvious. Its like the playtest was the first draft and the release just finished it.

A minor/obvious buff/nerf hear and there, and the only thing that the class was "op" in is now more restrictive but still usable.
Most of it just looks "fresh" because of wording and/or structual change. But actualy nothing much realy happend.

the biggest change was the spell list. And even this is more or less obvious why dident the phantom have more touch spells already in the play test when he can deliver touch spells? just so his/her spell list looks even better with the new psy spells?

But hey, i dont want a phantom just to be the imba scout. There are more or less cheap items for that.

At least if there was an archtype that can make the phantom combat vailable that would have been great. And the haunted archtype certainly dident do it.
Where you just so/that affraid of makeing the phantom accutualy good?

Ok to be fair if the archtype enlarge, spell enlarge and the anger enlarge stack (what i dont believe and i cant look atm) a collosal anger phantom sounds at least at first funny.

I would have loved to see a teamwork/(feat) fokust Archtype, that would have been interesting/great.

After four calls for Eldritch Scion stuff showed up in a few hours last night, I rechecked the entire potential errors thread again to see what they meant, and yeah, I couldn't find it. I'd recommend making a FAQ thread for it so we can take a look at it too!

Problems with the eldritch scion

- 1 Arcane pool point for 2 rounds mystic fokus as swift action, all things considered, is silly for a class that can have/uses so many swift actions. And many costs points too.
So, depending on your bloodline, you will use most if not all your points just to activate your bloodline powers and avoid arcana/feats that costs swift action/points. Or you kind of "avoid" your Bloodline. But then except for seriously waked roleplay reasons there is no point in picking this archtype.

I dont know if there is an error or this is supposed to be balanced but this is simply not fun at all.

As it plays now, it feels like you replaced arcana with a gutted Bloodrage. With a silly mechanical limitation on top.
As it is now, i would better take a real bloodrage in place of arcana you dont have the pool/action economy to support anyway.

At the very least consider making this a free action and/or up the rounds. As a free action at least you dont feel as crippeled. At least in the short run....

- Editing error

Bonus Spells
At 7th level, an eldritch scion gains the bonus spell from his bloodrager bloodline that is normally gained at 10th level. He gains the next three bonus spells from his bloodline at 9th, 11th, and 13th levels, respectively

But here the bonus spells from draconic bloodline....

Bonus Spells:
Shield (7th), resist energy (10th), fly (13th), fear (16th)

know let the confusion begin......

- FAQ worthy error/Editing error

The Archtype replaces spell recall, but there are is an impoved version so the basic version "should" come online later but it cant, if you play it as written you can not recall anything because the archtype does not prepare spells.

- most likly an error

The magus skillpoints per lvl (2+int mod) is balanced around the fact that he is/was a int caster class to begin with, with this archetype he doesnt need int that much so his skill points should go up to a 4 +int mod.
I seriously dont believe you expect this archtype to put points into int, too. The class is already mad and this archtype even more so.
Just add a wisdom dependensy and it needs all stats more or less....

Personaly i hate
- I personaly still dont get if constant bloodline abilitys are also constant for the scion. Or if everything just works with mystic fokus.
- that it needs the Spontaneous Metafocus feat to metamagic a spell with spellcombat now.
- because of the crippling 2round fokus cost/mechanic full spellcombat at 8lvl is feels way to late.
- Carrying on with the Bloodline theme you should have strongly considered giving it "eschew materials" as a bonus feat.

i loved the flavor but this archtype in its current form is just plain underwelming at its best and no fun/almost broken at its worst. And i am sorry but i dont consider bandaiding serious flaws in the archetype with heavy investment in feats/arcana/etc. good practice. And that just to make it playable. At least until the higher lvl...

I hope i have most of it.

Fast healer can work with fast healing.

1. There is no seperate entry for "rest healing" and "natural healing" because there are by rule one and the same. There is no other form of natural healing, except for fast healing and that is ruled to be just like natural healing.

As it is right now by (admittetly hidden) but basic rules, it would be just the same if the feat would say.

fast healer
When you regain hit points by natural healing or through magical healing, you recover additional hit points equal to half your Constitution modifier (minimum +1).

So in short

resting=natural healing

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#healing
Or
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary under "rest" and
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#35TOC-Disabled

And fast healing is considert natural healing except when otherwise stated. Or short

fast healing=natural healing
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Fast-Healing-Ex-

that means:
fast healing=resting

Sure its it is still debateble if this is intentional or not, but to 100% rule out fast healing. You would need to say that you need actual 8hours of rest or rule out fast healing. Or symply house rule to only work with real resting.

At the moment the eldritch scion is just a band aid for a class many (or at least me) wished for. I realy hope that paizo updates the class/archetype/Book in a timely fashion.
But i am almost certain they added the archetype at the last minute.

My biggest offenders with the archetype are.

-1 Arcane pool point for 2 rounds, all things considered, is silly for a class that can have/use so many swift actions. And most costs points too. So, depending on your bloodline, you will use most if not all your points just to activate your bloodline powers and avoid arcana/feats that costs swift action/points. Or you kind of "avoid" your Bloodline. But then except for seriously waked roleplay reasons there is no point in picking this archtype.

I would like to see a base mystic fokus pool of charisma mod + half class level (or maybe every fourth class lvl) and the option as a swift action to spend a number of arcane pool points(more then one at a time) to get extra rounds, every points spend adds 2 rounds to the pool. Considering you get no other benefits from rage then the activation of your bloodline abilitys and this could includes even the normaly for the bloodrager constant ones, i seriously doubt this is even close to overpowered.

This way MAYBE they could have consider the other way around (rage for arcane) as a high lvl archetype/class feature, but to be fair, it sounds and is overpowered at least if they not nerf the ratio hard.

Yes this COULD double your pool but half of it would only be used for your bloodline and this way you are not out of "ammo" so ridiculous fast.
Just as a reminder the bloodrager gets 4 + con mod + 2 per lvl after 1lvl.

As it playes now, it feels like they replaced arcana with a gutted and bandaided rage. Except for the bloodlines.
As it is now, i would take a weaker version of real bloodrage in place of arcana i dont have the pool to support anyway.

-At the very least consider making this a free action and/or up the rounds. Yes as a free action you will plow through your resources even faster but at least you can/wlll play some kind of a shotgun character...in close range.... with one shot.

-The archetype/book is plaqued with errors.
as examples the posts above mine or these ones:

Bonus Spells
At 7th level, an eldritch scion gains the bonus spell from his bloodrager bloodline that is normally gained at 10th level. He gains the next three bonus spells from his bloodline at 9th, 11th, and 13th levels, respectively

ok understandable but just as example here the bonus spells from draconic bloodline.

Bonus Spells:
Shield (7th), resist energy (10th), fly (13th), fear (16th)

know let the confusion begin!......

.... yea i am not stupid, mostly likely the intend was that you get the later spells sooner, but if you play it like it is written where do you get your 7lvl spell? after the 10lvl spell or is it now the last in line? Or nothing, because there is no 5 spell in any bloodline.

And an other one, are the bloodline abilitys that are constant for the bloodrager also constant for the Eldritch Scion?

And what personaly grinds my gears.

-The magus skillpoints per lvl (2+int mod) is mostly likely balanced around the fact that he is a int caster class to begin with, with this archetype he doesnt need int that much so his skill points should go up to 4 +int mod. I bet, with all the other errors etc. with the book, this was an oversight.
I seriously dont believe they expect me to put points into int, too. The archetype/class is mad enough as it is.

-Carrying on with the Bloodline theme paizo should have strongly considered giving it "eschew materials" as a bonus feat.

-that i need the Spontaneous Metafocus feat to metamagic a spell with spellcombat now.

And no, i dont consider bandaiding serious flaws in the archetype with heavy investment in feats and/or maybe even arcana, good practice.

And yes i hate it and i will play it anyway just because there is no other option then 3rd party for this type of class.

I seriously dont want to sound ungrateful and i apologies if it sounds that way, but i wished for the class/archetype and now that is here it walks on crutches.

On a side note i hate that there is no "good" necromancer possible, i like the white necromancer but its 3rd party.